Discussion Dusknoir / Max Potion / Focus Sash

[Yog]

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This is a combo I've had my eye on since the reissue of Max Potion. In theory it is pretty obvious how it should work but for the sake of clarity; You combine a benchsitting Dusknoir, along with some attacker that can use the Focus Sash. Your attacker can't be knocked out without it's removal, and won't even lose the sash if the attack is less than a OHKO. Then on your turn you use Dusknoir to hoover up that damage and apply the Max Potion there instead of directly to your attacker - meaning you keep it's energy attachments - which is a boon due to the high cost energy requirements of most fighting types. And your Sash is good to block a kill again. An Eco-Arm or two will allow you to recycle these Focus Sashes over and over while you either chip away at an opponent or build up to a powerhouse tank.

I feel like this strategy is just about breaking out of the fun level and on the verge of competitiveness in Standard thanks to the slower pace of games. But I am having trouble finding the right attacker. Meloetta seems like the obvious choice thanks to her built in acceleration plus her low HP of 90 meaning she can be grabbed with just a level ball - plus she will have 80 damage on her at most. Also the inclusion of Psychic energy in the deck means Dusknoir can attack if necessary. Oh how I wish the F/P Mewtwo were actually a Fighting type for the Sash..

I've been running either a 2-1-2 line of Dusknoir or a 2-2-2 (so much item lock right now), which strangely means a Stage 2 fighter is not out of the question - since the candies can be doubled up between both lines, and Korrina is such good fighting support.

Some testing with Mamoswine & Gigalith as the main attackers has worked out nicely enough. Mamoswine's ability and healing move work well with the denial of damage tactic, and same with Gigalith. Gallade is a non-runner despite his nice high-damage/low-cost attack since Ralts/Kirlia will die even with a sash. Garchomp is my next line of enquiry.

The deck is slow of course, but thanks to the Sash that doesn't necessarily mean you actually lose any prizes by the time you get set up.

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I'm posting this in here rather than the deck garage just because I'd like to hear the opinions on the general strategy, rather than any particular build. I understand there were similar archetypes with Dusknoirs from older sets, but the ability is different and they were before my time. If anyone has experience with those I'd love to hear even general words of wisdom.

Is this something that can become viable in Standard? Or is it just not good enough. Who do you think I should be looking at as my Fighting attacker and are there any pointers or tips you might add.

 

[Elbow]

Why not run super scoop up and other healing cards? You are devoting about 6 spots to the Dusknoir line (2-2-2) and probably 4 Max potion. That's 10 cards that can be for more versatile spots, such as AZ, Super Scoop Up, or even Cassius (depending on the deck). Adding dusknoir makes the deck more clunky for sure. Bad starts and is a bad lysandre target. In addition, with Bats still making a big dent on the format, I think only relying on the Focus Sash strategy is somewhat poor. You are destined to play against Toad where you will not be able to heal or put down tools and will most likely go against many decks with Xerosic/Megaphone. I think the spots should be devoted to more consistency towards the deck IMO.

 

[coolniceguy]

I think it is a smart idea, but it is slow. I think you should try playing a lot of Shamin to speed up the deck. Also I think if you're playing in Expanded, you should contact me. I am an expert, and I think I could help a lot.

 

[Yog]

Why not run super scoop up and other healing cards? You are devoting about 6 spots to the Dusknoir line (2-2-2) and probably 4 Max potion. That's 10 cards that can be for more versatile spots, such as AZ, Super Scoop Up, or even Cassius (depending on the deck). Adding dusknoir makes the deck more clunky for sure. Bad starts and is a bad lysandre target. In addition, with Bats still making a big dent on the format, I think only relying on the Focus Sash strategy is somewhat poor. You are destined to play against Toad where you will not be able to heal or put down tools and will most likely go against many decks with Xerosic/Megaphone. I think the spots should be devoted to more consistency towards the deck IMO.

I think the benefit here is that a charged up fighting type, doesn't lose those energies as they would through scooping up whichever way. But yes, it is definitely clunky. And bats/item lock are eternally a thorn in it's side. I think that is true for most Fighting decks.

I think it is a smart idea, but it is slow. I think you should try playing a lot of Shamin to speed up the deck. Also I think if you're playing in Expanded, you should contact me. I am an expert, and I think I could help a lot.

Haha, no expanded for me. I'm having a taster this week and frankly, the sheer speed scares the bejaysus out of me But I'm dipping my toe in slowly. Coming from Standard, there's a lot of history there to absorb.



For anyone else following the thread, the best team-up so far has been with Garchomp. But I feel like if anything, it's just slowing a regular Garchomp build down. Re-healing my attackers over and over is pretty sweet when it comes off and opponents nearly always concede on the client once the loop begins and they realize they've no way round it. Either that or they have a way round it in which case the strategy is a wash. Is it bringing anything more then to a Garchomp build compared to say, Garbador? I don't really think so :|

Still, it's been a nice experiment and something I might revisit when the XY10 Fighting support lands.

 

[coolniceguy]

Could you please put up the deck list with Garchomp because I want to see it?

Omg you should use... Golurk because he is Psychic and Fighting, so boom. That means you can use Psychic Energy, but he is Fighting, so he can work with your combo. I need to make this deck.

 

[malamarch]

So the idea is nowhere near close to being competitive, unfortunately.
Not only do you lose to Toad, you lose to Xerosic (a staple), Lysandre (a staple), Hex Maniac (a staple) and to cards that do 130+ (since you have to waste the Max Potion anyway).
You're also wrong in saying that most Fighting types require high amounts of energy, just look at Hawlucha FFI, Lucario EX and Landorus EX. All of these are one or two energy attackers, which is a near-negligible investment into your main attacker, unlike the nine plus cards you invest in Dusknoir.
Is the idea fun? Yes, of course it is.
Is it viable? Not in the slightest.
It's best paired with Crustle BCR in Expanded (so you don't rely on Sash), but it'll still lose to every semi-decent deck there is.