Empoleon Jumpluff's Cousin?

iisnumber12

iisnumber12

Team UN (White)
Member
I saw this card and I was like "Hey Magnezone and Jumpluff in one card!?"

What other cards does Empoleon work with?

Does this card have potential on its own?

Will this card be part of the BDIF?

What would YOU rate this card (out of 10)?

Code: 
Empoleon – Water – HP140
Stage 2 – Evolves from Prinplup

Ability: Diving Draw
Choose 1 card from your hand and discard it. Then, draw 2 cards from your deck. You can use this ability 1 time during your turn.

[W] Attack Command: Does 10 damage times the total number of Pokemon in play.

Weakness: Lightning (x2)
Resistance: none
Retreat: 2

21/69


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http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-empoleon-dr21-12-14-2011

Errm.

I think that Empoleon is a good card with potential.

I loved Jumpluff... 10/10 :D
 
http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-empoleon-dr21-12-14-2011

fry.PNG


edit: ninja'd...
 
CotD isn't meant for back and forth discussion, so I'll leave this open. Although it is kind of hilarious that the four questions are almost identical to my guiding questions in CotD. Was that intentional? Lol.

I personally love Empoleon. I started testing with it the minute I saw it. I won't say what I combo it with, since it's been so amazing, but this is the only deck I've played in a long time where I can consistently get five Stage 2's out in the same game. I will say, however, that pairing it with Kyurem seems pretty necessary, since Empoleon's damage can be manipulated and even the full 120 often isn't enough for get critical OHKOs.
 
I'm liking it a lot, to be honest. I missed the boat on being able to play Jumpluff competetively, but I'd be very happy to play around with Empoleon.

He really does have a lot going for him, I think; his Ability is gold, especially in a format with very little in the way of power-based draw. Ninetales and Magnezone can't fit everywhere, and since Diving Draw comes attached to a 140hp attacker with a very nice, very cheap attack, I'm completely sold that it will be a viable deck in its own right next format.

Partnering Empoleon with Terrakion seems like the best play in my mind, to shore up the saddening Lightning weakness, and I'm considering Darkrai EX (which I will be splashing into everything) and Rainbow energy to maintain momentum after a Retaliate. Diving Draw allows for smoother play, getting those Rainbows to use with Terrakion or other Empoleons on the bench. Twist Mountain and Aerodactyl could find a place here, pretty much allowing you to count them twice for Empoleon's damage.

Fire is already on the way out, but Empoleon is really a nail in their coffin; no commonly played Fire type can stand up to even a 80 damage Attack Command, which is how much you'll be doing as long as you have a full bench and they have at least one on their bench. They don't even need to have a Bench if you're using Aero'

Mewtwo EX can sit there and be useless against it, since a Minimum energy X-Ball does...60 Damage. Not only does Mewtwo not want to be taking ~120 Damage, but they can't even take the KO back if Empoleon strikes first, not unless they want to drop 6 of their own Energy onto Mewtwo.

The more I think about it, the less I feel that Mewtwo EX will be a dominating force in the format, when Zekrom EX and Raikou EX exist and Mew Prime is still in rotation.
 
Celebi23 said:
CotD isn't meant for back and forth discussion, so I'll leave this open. Although it is kind of hilarious that the four questions are almost identical to my guiding questions in CotD. Was that intentional? Lol.

I personally love Empoleon. I started testing with it the minute I saw it. I won't say what I combo it with, since it's been so amazing, but this is the only deck I've played in a long time where I can consistently get five Stage 2's out in the same game. I will say, however, that pairing it with Kyurem seems pretty necessary, since Empoleon's damage can be manipulated and even the full 120 often isn't enough for get critical OHKOs.
Click to expand...

Thnx, and no, it was a total coincidence
 
vareki said:
I'm liking it a lot, to be honest. I missed the boat on being able to play Jumpluff competetively, but I'd be very happy to play around with Empoleon.

He really does have a lot going for him, I think; his Ability is gold, especially in a format with very little in the way of power-based draw. Ninetales and Magnezone can't fit everywhere, and since Diving Draw comes attached to a 140hp attacker with a very nice, very cheap attack, I'm completely sold that it will be a viable deck in its own right next format.

Partnering Empoleon with Terrakion seems like the best play in my mind, to shore up the saddening Lightning weakness, and I'm considering Darkrai EX (which I will be splashing into everything) and Rainbow energy to maintain momentum after a Retaliate. Diving Draw allows for smoother play, getting those Rainbows to use with Terrakion or other Empoleons on the bench. Twist Mountain and Aerodactyl could find a place here, pretty much allowing you to count them twice for Empoleon's damage.

Fire is already on the way out, but Empoleon is really a nail in their coffin; no commonly played Fire type can stand up to even a 80 damage Attack Command, which is how much you'll be doing as long as you have a full bench and they have at least one on their bench. They don't even need to have a Bench if you're using Aero'

Mewtwo EX can sit there and be useless against it, since a Minimum energy X-Ball does...60 Damage. Not only does Mewtwo not want to be taking ~120 Damage, but they can't even take the KO back if Empoleon strikes first, not unless they want to drop 6 of their own Energy onto Mewtwo.

The more I think about it, the less I feel that Mewtwo EX will be a dominating force in the format, when Zekrom EX and Raikou EX exist and Mew Prime is still in rotation.
Click to expand...
I honestly think the best play for Empoleon is with Tyranitar or another heavy Dark Pokémon like Krookodile. Use Empoleon's abilty to discard a darkness energy, then use Dark Patch to get it attached on your T-Tar. Attack with Empoleon early game, switch to T-Tar/Krookodile late game for the mop-up. Most energy efficient method, while still being able to maintain multiple Stage 2s via the draw power


Also, gonna say this: Max Potion + Empoleon is just beeegging to be abused.
 
^Tyranitar will spread to all of your cards, though. :(

I'd rather have it with Eelektrik and OP basic attackers. It seems more practical.

I love the Max Potion idea, although Donphan never really got any use out of it.
 
Celebi23 said:
^Tyranitar will spread to all of your cards, though. :(

I'd rather have it with Eelektrik and OP basic attackers. It seems more practical.

I love the Max Potion idea, although Donphan never really got any use out of it.
Click to expand...

I think Empoleon will see more play using is speed than discard abitlity, so Dark Patch and Eelektrik might not fit in this deck to.
 
I'm not seeing this working with dark types just because of Dark Patch. That whole idea seems more based around trying to find a use for Dark Patch than utilizing Empoleon to it's fullest potential. Max Potion could see play as a 2-3 card tech, but it won't be that great. They are easy enough to power up and easy enough to get out imo that you can almost swarm them.

@Domo Why is this slower than Jumpluff? It isn't hard to fill up a bench, at all, and you can just search out whatever you need with pokemon communication or mantine. And no matter what, you can't force a 120 damage if they don't fill up their bench.

Btw, you spelled Kim Jong Il wrong (among many, many other things). Why you would want to honor a man like him is beyond me, though.
 
iisnumber12 said:
I think Empoleon will see more play using is speed than discard abitlity, so Dark Patch and Eelektrik might not fit in this deck to.
Click to expand...
I've actually tested Empoleon, and the speed version just doesn't work. The lightning weakness is deadly, and the damage is easily manipulated by your opponent. It's great as a combination of clutch attacker and free Felicity or better each turn. The great thing about him is that his attack is low-maintenance and cheap, so it works great with Catcher. You can promote a fresh one, Catcher something weak on their bench, KO it for one energy. Then non-lightning decks can't OHKO you back, so you return to the safety of the bench and go up a prize.

tl;dr Empoleon's main use is for draw power, but the attack has great uses as well. Although Dark Patch obviously won't fit in.
 
Celebi23 said:
^Tyranitar will spread to all of your cards, though. :(

I'd rather have it with Eelektrik and OP basic attackers. It seems more practical.

I love the Max Potion idea, although Donphan never really got any use out of it.
Click to expand...
Well the idea wasn't to spread, but to keep it on your bench to build it up for its Megaton Tail + Dark Claw for 140-180, but I think Krookodile would be better to that end, as it's for late-game and his attack just gets better and better the more prizes you take. I mean, just by mid-game his attack is just as powerful as T-Tar's at 3 prizes taken, and it gets in OHKO rangte of EX's with 4 prizes taken... By the way, if an EX is in OHKO range with 2 prizes left, and you get 2 prizes from an EX, Catcher + Krookodile = instawin

I think Donphan never saw use with Max Potion because a) he only hit for 60 and the attack wasn't really used past early game and b) because Max Potion is just extremely under-represented. Jumpluff obviously never saw use with it because it's already in OHKO range, but Empoleon is out of the 120 range so I can definitely see running 3-4 in there, denying prizes to everything but lightning decks. Blissey Prime can also see use here

...Speaking of which, there's also no reason to not run Donphan in a Max Potion Empoleon deck. Use Donphan for the lightning, Empoleon for everything else. I can just imagine the frustration on their face as they realize they're not going to be taking many prizes. I ran a T-Tar Serperior deck with Max Potions and, although I only went 4-2 (one of those was a T1 donk), every game I played the opponent was horribly frustrated and you could see the sweat dripping from their foreheads as damage was being built up on their side of the field.

But anyways, I think the best/most competitive Empoleon deck would be Empoleon/Terrakion with a finisher teched in, be it Magnezone or Krookodile or a fighting type to cover that horrible weakness
 
Celebi23 said:
I've actually tested Empoleon, and the speed version just doesn't work. The lightning weakness is deadly, and the damage is easily manipulated by your opponent. It's great as a combination of clutch attacker and free Felicity or better each turn. The great thing about him is that his attack is low-maintenance and cheap, so it works great with Catcher. You can promote a fresh one, Catcher something weak on their bench, KO it for one energy. Then non-lightning decks can't OHKO you back, so you return to the safety of the bench and go up a prize.

tl;dr Empoleon's main use is for draw power, but the attack has great uses as well. Although Dark Patch obviously won't fit in.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean the speed version is the only one that works, I meant that Eelektrik and Dark Patch aren't going to be the best uses withthis card.
 
It's not slower than jumpluff. It's arguably faster. It has built-in drawpower. tbh, with collector, pichu, and communication, the lack of sunflora makes no difference.
 
pokemonjoe said:
It's not slower than jumpluff. It's arguably faster. It has built-in drawpower. tbh, with collector, pichu, and communication, the lack of sunflora makes no difference.
Click to expand...

Agreed, sunflora was never that great in anything, not unplayable, but not amazing
 
iisnumber12 said:
Agreed, sunflora was never that great in anything, not unplayable, but not amazing
Click to expand...

Not to mention the extra search cards we're getting and the amazing synergy water has going for it (Mantine, Delibird, Politoed etc)
 
The only things that could arguably have made Jumpluff better than Empoleon are Claydol (but much less so because of Empoleon's ability) and BTS/Rare Candy pre-nerf. However, Empoleon doesn't necessarily have to be used for speed, whereas Jumpluff really did need to.
 
Pros: Same thing as Jumpluff
Great draw in its Pokebody
MUCH higher HP
Good type

Cons: Nerfed Rare Candy
Bad weakness
Impossible to OHKO Zekky and other 130 HP things not named Reshiram without Pluspower
No BTS
No Claydol
If the deck becomes too popular, mirror matches are super weird and just go to whoever gets to go first.

I honestly don't see Empoleon as good as Jumpluff was. Sure there will be the occasional rogue of it, but other than that, I don't see much play coming from it.

6.5/10
 
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