Let's talk about other underrated decks such as this one. I can see the potential but it would be hard to pilot this deck with all the electric.
Empoleon/Terrakion's viability Pre and Post Rotation
- Thread starter Riskbreakers
- Start date
Riskbreakers said:
the matchup isnt as bad as people think, once you're set up you can return KO on all their pokemon. theres always the solo terrakion strategy (terrakion + exp share) if your empoleons all get knocked out
The thing I love about Empoleon is that Mewtwo cannot hit it for much damage because Empoleon only needs one Energy. Empoleon can OHKO a lot of stuff and win the prize trade with EX Pokemon. Sure, Lightning types are trouble, but that is what Terrakion is for, and can really help Empoleon come back. I think Emploeon has a lot of potential in this format with the right player and list.
I'm testing Empoleon/Donphan right now, and it seems to be working pretty smoothly. The deck is a bit touchy, so you have to play it right. I currently run 4-4 Donphan and 4-1-4 Empoleon with a Dual Ball/Communication engine. I'm tempted to switch over to Pokemon Collector, though, because I tend to have problems filling the bench when Empoleon gets out. That, however, is when the deck really shines. After the first Empoleon hits the field, the deck just takes off.
In addition, the other thing to look out for is that the deck is matchup-sensitive. I know every deck is matchup-sensitive, but your strategy for different opponents can seem like you're playing a completely different deck. Against ZekEels, you swarm Donphans. They'll eventually drop Tornadus EX/MewtwoEX/Tornadus, but you have to ignore them and keep on Catchering for KO's. You'll start to get ahead on the prize race, getting OHKO on {L} pokemon. Eventually they'll stop dropping them, and that's when you break out Empoleons to go after the non-{L} EX's they've dropped. Just make absolutely sure that you've destroyed every single Eelektrik in sight before you do.
My favorite to play against are {D} decks, because you swarm everything. Max out on Donphans, but don't stop there and just keep on setting up Empoleons, too. It's really a pretty easy matchup, because you take a OHKO every turn compared to their 2HKO's and occasional OHKO with Zoroark. However, if they have enough benched pokemon to OHKO you with Zoroark, that means Empoleon will be doing maximum damage.
CMT is a pretty good matchup, too. They don't run any {L}, so you just swarm Empoleons and win the prize race. (Seems like I'm saying that a lot.) Same goes for Terrakion. You can OHKO a Terrakion with a pluspower if they have a full bench. If they keep their bench small you 2HKO them and use Max Potion to stay ahead on the prize race.
In addition, the other thing to look out for is that the deck is matchup-sensitive. I know every deck is matchup-sensitive, but your strategy for different opponents can seem like you're playing a completely different deck. Against ZekEels, you swarm Donphans. They'll eventually drop Tornadus EX/MewtwoEX/Tornadus, but you have to ignore them and keep on Catchering for KO's. You'll start to get ahead on the prize race, getting OHKO on {L} pokemon. Eventually they'll stop dropping them, and that's when you break out Empoleons to go after the non-{L} EX's they've dropped. Just make absolutely sure that you've destroyed every single Eelektrik in sight before you do.
My favorite to play against are {D} decks, because you swarm everything. Max out on Donphans, but don't stop there and just keep on setting up Empoleons, too. It's really a pretty easy matchup, because you take a OHKO every turn compared to their 2HKO's and occasional OHKO with Zoroark. However, if they have enough benched pokemon to OHKO you with Zoroark, that means Empoleon will be doing maximum damage.
CMT is a pretty good matchup, too. They don't run any {L}, so you just swarm Empoleons and win the prize race. (Seems like I'm saying that a lot.) Same goes for Terrakion. You can OHKO a Terrakion with a pluspower if they have a full bench. If they keep their bench small you 2HKO them and use Max Potion to stay ahead on the prize race.
What kind of crazy rogue dark decks are you playing against?Rikko145 said:
Anyway, I really like Empoleon as a card. It's got a great attack, great HP, and a great Ability. Combine that with the Max Potion synergy and it's really a hard card to take out. It just doesn't have a good partner at the moment. If there was a card that really worked well with it, it would be much better. Empoleon/Terrakion is still a very decent deck though.
Zoroark is like tier 2. Try facing a good build of Darkrai/Tornadus EX.
I actually think it might be possibly better even after rotation. It doesn't lose any of the core cards (Rare Candy, Terrakion, EXP Share, etc.) and also gains Mew EX which allows you to have more basics and an easy way to KO Mewtwo EXs. I think it's a decent deck right now, but nothing that much more. No worse than Tier 2.
dmaster out.
dmaster out.
From what I read in an article over at the other site, this deck has been decent in Japan lol. This deck got me interested because it's an anti-Mewtwo of sorts without even the need of your own Mewtwo. I'm just kinda wondering if I should be using Dual Ball or Collector here lol
I've been testing this deck out, and so far, so good. One thing that I find might help is Groudon EX. If the opponent manages to set up, say ZekEels, before you do, it's an almost complete loss. Groudon EX remedies this problem. Here's the set up I've been thinking of switching into:
3-2-3 Empoleon
3 Terrakion NV
1 Groudon EX
1 Mewtwo EX
3/2 Minccino ND (Call for Family. Great way to start a match)
Not sure, though.
3-2-3 Empoleon
3 Terrakion NV
1 Groudon EX
1 Mewtwo EX
3/2 Minccino ND (Call for Family. Great way to start a match)
Not sure, though.
^Try using Collector and then replacing those Minccino with Dual Ball. Then you don't have to waste an attack.
Well, having extra basics to spam late-game is also helpful. Dual Ball doesn't do anything if there are no basics left in your deck. If you're desperate for filler, though, I'd probably rather run quite a few other cards before Minccino - namely Smeargle. There's also a Call for Family Lapras that could work since it's a Water deck. Or there's Pichu.
I've been testing with this deck, and smeargle has kinda ruined me. I usually get a Juniper, and discard a good hand, when I wanted a PONT, or N. Dual Ball really just sucks for this deck, you only get 2 basics, and it feels as if its gonna flip 2 tails most of the time.
Lapras you say? That should be like obvious, but that, I didn't think about him. I'll have to try that... Celebi's a smarticus.
Lapras you say? That should be like obvious, but that, I didn't think about him. I'll have to try that... Celebi's a smarticus.
The rule of thumb for Smeargle is if a Juniper will ruin you, don't do it. Don't bank on having your opponent having or not having something if it might kill you.
T1 Darkrai/Tornadus will start to kill Phanpies/Piplups quickly. Donphan 9HKOs Tornadus EX w/ Eviolite, 5HKOs Tornadus with Ruins of Alph.
When facing Empoleon, Darkrai/Tornadus will keep a low bench, resulting in 3HKOs or even 4HKOs when Darkrai has Eviolite, or even less damage if you can't keep a bench of six. Darkrai/Tornadus also has SSU.
Basically, if you go second or you can't get a T2 Empoleon, then you probably won't see one most of the game/will lose multiple Piplups, resulting in a big prize deficit. That leaves you with Donphan, which doesn't even OHKO Darkrai and does pretty badly against Tornadus.
When facing Empoleon, Darkrai/Tornadus will keep a low bench, resulting in 3HKOs or even 4HKOs when Darkrai has Eviolite, or even less damage if you can't keep a bench of six. Darkrai/Tornadus also has SSU.
Basically, if you go second or you can't get a T2 Empoleon, then you probably won't see one most of the game/will lose multiple Piplups, resulting in a big prize deficit. That leaves you with Donphan, which doesn't even OHKO Darkrai and does pretty badly against Tornadus.
How does one get a T1 Tornadus? The most you can do is 60 T1. And with Darkrai it seems like it's really not that consistent, having to rely on having 2 Dark Patch and getting 2 {D} energies into the discard. I need 2 searchable pokemon, 1 Rare Candy, and 1 {W} energy. Plus, I have built-in draw that lets me swarm attackers much more easily than other speed decks.Just testing other matchups, I can definitely say that a T2 Empoleon + another attacker is definitely do-able. And another thing I have pulling for this deck is Max Potion abuse. You also seem to be forgetting about Catcher. I can throw up a Donphan and hit Darkrai for 120. Even if you retreat and bring up Tornadus and have an Eviolite on Darkrai, I can Catcher it back up and KO it. Sure, I'm sacrificing the Donphan, but it's a worthy sacrifice. I'd debate this, but I like to test first before I start arguing.
60 T1 is enough to kill off a Piplup, and a PlusPower kills off a Phanpy.
Taking a prize T1 isn't so hard, and unless you can evolve every attacker a T2 prize is pretty simple as well.
4 Dark Patch, 3-4 Ultra Ball, 4 Junk Arm, 3-4 Juniper, 9-11 Basic Dark Energy, and 3-4 Smeargle (as well as 2-4 Skyarrow Bridge and 2-4 Switch) actually make a T1 Darkrai certainly possible, and that means a kill T1 as well as 30 to the bench for a later OHKO on an Empoleon.
Remember, a low bench makes Empoleon a pretty weak attacker. A Darkrai/Tornadus player also has the option to not even play Darkrai down, and stream Tornadus until a good number of Phanpy and Donphan are dead.
Taking a prize T1 isn't so hard, and unless you can evolve every attacker a T2 prize is pretty simple as well.
4 Dark Patch, 3-4 Ultra Ball, 4 Junk Arm, 3-4 Juniper, 9-11 Basic Dark Energy, and 3-4 Smeargle (as well as 2-4 Skyarrow Bridge and 2-4 Switch) actually make a T1 Darkrai certainly possible, and that means a kill T1 as well as 30 to the bench for a later OHKO on an Empoleon.
Remember, a low bench makes Empoleon a pretty weak attacker. A Darkrai/Tornadus player also has the option to not even play Darkrai down, and stream Tornadus until a good number of Phanpy and Donphan are dead.