But... it dies to every Water/Ice/Grass and most Ground attacks under the sun. Evolution Stone Pokemon need to outclass or match the effectiveness of the higher stage Pokemon. And... the higher stage Pokemon needs to be decent in the first place. It may make a decent Pokemon with Solid Rock and Sandstorm I guess, but even then those Special Attacks really take it out.
Evolution Stone thread
- Thread starter sazando101
- Start date
Dude stop spamming sets that aren't viable at all. Evolution Stone is meant for defensively oriented Pokemon that can surpass or match the effectiveness of other pokemon with the item. Roselia has ridiculously frail 50/45/80 defenses which are still low with the Evolution Stone. The only possible use I can see for it is to set up Spikes or T-Spikes or try to do something with its base 100 Special Attack.
Hyperbeem, if somebody isn't good or needs help then help them with it. You know enough about competitive battling to tutor so I think instead of just saying his sets aren't viable say why they aren't viable. That Roselia is outclassed by Roserade due to speed and general overall hazard uses. Even with Evo Stone it's not as useful as Roserade is. Roserade isn't that useful this generation so Roselia won't either.
I've crunched some numbers, (hopefully correctly, I don't usually calculate stats) and have figured out that a Machoke could actually become a decent wall. With a EV spread of 200HP/56Att./252Sp.Def, my calculations say that Machoke reaches a nice 350/264/360 defensive stat spread, and 282 Attack which can be boosted by Guts, making Machoke a bulky attacker (188 Speed 
), a status absorber, and a Bulk Up abuser all in one. (These stats were made off of Marriland's stat calculator, which I'm not sure is accurate in this generation. I added the boosts and EVs myself.)
EDIT: I've fixed my calculations, there is a little less Defense then I thought, along with HP, but that is easily made up for with the risen Special Defense and Bulk Up. I am using a careful nature.
), a status absorber, and a Bulk Up abuser all in one. (These stats were made off of Marriland's stat calculator, which I'm not sure is accurate in this generation. I added the boosts and EVs myself.)EDIT: I've fixed my calculations, there is a little less Defense then I thought, along with HP, but that is easily made up for with the risen Special Defense and Bulk Up. I am using a careful nature.
One issue: I really hope that when you said Sp.Att you were actually talking about special defense because, yeah... Machoke isn't exactly specially offensive (at all).
Yeah, sorry, I'll fix that
People won't use them without the stones. The point is to use the stones to get the defensive and special defensive increases. Knock Off isn't that popular of a move either, so people generally don't worry about it. I don't even remember the last time I saw someone use it.
Trick is used quite often, though. A Choice Pokemon using Trick on either Dusclops or Chansey would make them virtually useless.
Even trick, however, is rarely seen (at least by my standards) in today's meta. Either way, I'd use Dusknoir or Bilssey, as I've been using them for a long time and I wouldn't want this Evolution Stone "Gimmick" (call it what you will) to change that.
Even trick, however, is rarely seen (at least by my standards) in today's meta. Either way, I'd use Dusknoir or Bilssey, as I've been using them for a long time and I wouldn't want this Evolution Stone "Gimmick" (call it what you will) to change that.
@Shadow Lugia, a pokemon using Trick on Dusknoir or Blissey also makes THEM basically useless. The evolution stone has its merits and I will try a Dusclops set. My personal opinion is that Blissey with Leftovers is better than Chansey but for a completely different reason.
I would also like to point out that if the move Embargo is used on the pokemon holding the evo stone that pokemon can't use it. This is a wimpy Knock Off I know but still this kinda thing really cripple a pokemon with poor bulk.
People are entirely missing the Point of the use of Evolution Stone. Why would you use Trick on Chansey/Dusclops etc? That would make your Pokemon enitrely useless as the Choice item isn't useless. And Evo Stone is mainly used for Defensive Pokemon. You wouldn't put Evo Stone on Roselia, it's so frail it won't matter at all, and even then if you where to try and make it bulky it'd be an easy KO.
While this is true you can easily handle that problem by useing a pokemon like Marshtomp who has the same kind of bulk as Swampert.
Chansey and Duskclops are fine examples. Even Hippopatos is a good option.
I have never even seen the move Embargo used once. Obviously there will be counters, and things that make them close to useless. However, if those same things are done to their evo's then their evo's will be useless as well. Gimmicks are also poor examples. Even without evolution stone Chansey has massive HP and pretty good SpD, and Dusclops' defenses are only 9 points or so less than his evo. I don't see how that would make them completely useless. I don't know about using Hippopatos as the Pokemon still need good HP to have the same overall bulk. Porygon2, in my opinion, is probably one of the best Evolution Stone users. He already had pretty good defenses before and had 374 HP which isn't bad at all, so he's really benefited from this.
What do think of desumasu with evo stone? It also has embargo to stop opposing users.
I'm not sure that would work, because it would be a 127 Base Defense and 97 Base Special Defense vs. a 140 Base Defense and 105 Base Special Defense, and the latter can actually hit and hold an item.[/quote]
Guys, I think you are missing the point. No one ever uses Embargo, and Trick would not only cripple Chansey/Dusclops it would also cripple their Evolutions. No one uses Trick on bulky Pokemon to steal an Evolution Stone, it's to restrict them to one move. @Steadfast, I pwn with Porygon-2 Evo Stone. Best user evah...