News Evolved Starter Pokemon and More Revealed for 'Sun' and 'Moon'!

crystal_pidgeot said:
Again, that isn't a problem with Mega Evolution. The issue was with balance. They allowed the use of Pokemon with 670+ blase stats that could gain an additional 100 if people chose to use them (and they did) and people chose to use the best megas around, which is no different than people using the best Pokemon around so we should just ban all the Pokemon right? Guess that means there's no VGC this year since no Pokemon are allowed to be used. The other issue is they refuse to do anything modern game developers do and patch the game for balance post release and in ANY OTHER game if a character or weapon was too good and created balance issue, they would have been patched out long ago.

Mega Pidgeot wasn't the issue with VGC. Vaporeon and Zangoose weren't the issue with VGC. The issue with VGC was poorly designed rules ran by a company that has no respect for Pokemon (refusing to actually balance within the same game), the players (allowing timer stalling despite what the rules say) or what it means to be competitive (a mixture of the last two).

The simple solution here is to just ban those mega stones and ban the use of "uber" legendary Pokemon and make hot patches to the game and Pokemon when something is out of balance.
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The problem with GF is that they cant balance pokemon after theyve put it in the game. This would mean they have to change damage, all the stats, attacks that that pokemon gets, accuracy of the attacks across the board for all pokemon. Then they have to change every pokemon. That could take them a year alone. I think that that isnt worth it because they next game will be a year behind and then they can start making a new one. I don't think that that would be good for the company, but it would be good for the competitive scene. And whats good for the competitive scene isnt necessarily good for the company. It would cut out of profits and game production so that they can improve a competitive scene thats currently on life support.
 
superdan51 said:
The problem with GF is that they cant balance pokemon after theyve put it in the game. This would mean they have to change damage, all the stats, attacks that that pokemon gets, accuracy of the attacks across the board for all pokemon. Then they have to change every pokemon. That could take them a year alone.
Click to expand...

Yeah? Other game developers do this without much issue. It also wouldn't take a year and they wouldn't have to do a complete overhaul either. Just enough to say "hey, we are listening and making the following changes.

I think that that isnt worth it because they next game will be a year behind and then they can start making a new one.
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Pokemon isn't the only game being made yearly that has a competitive scene. Call of Duty, Mortal Kombat... League of Legends. These game go through balance patches often.

I don't think that that would be good for the company, but it would be good for the competitive scene. And whats good for the competitive scene isnt necessarily good for the company.
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Whats good for competitive is good for the company. If the game ceases to be somewhat fun with its competitive play, then people will stop playing it, which means people stop buying the newer version of the game, which means 3DSs stop being sold and we all know Nintendo can't have have that. A little extreme but you get the idea.

It would cut out of profits and game production so that they can improve a competitive scene thats currently on life support.
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The idea of having a competitive scene is to make sure its fun and fair to every and when TO's refuse to follow simple rules like stalling the timer, then we have players like that girl who was stalled after technically having the win, they may stop playing. This is a issue with the rules and the willingness of the staff to follow them and had I be a Judge for VGC, you'll be damn sure I would have pulled the plug on that match and given out infractions and yes, I'd been willing to be the bad guy in that case.

Competitive play means a lot to players and unlike the TCG where its harder to fix cards without spending money to reprint sets and pull the current stock, reducing Mega Kangaskhan's Parental Bond second hit of damage to like 1.1x the first hits damage and removing secondary effects from the attack is just an update away. There are a number of things wrong that players have issue with and refusing to fix them in next years release of the game is not only old and out of date, its disrespectful to the players.
 
Well. My rowlet evo had the "Sharp feathers with Throwing" At least I got one thing. And maybe the fancy part too. :)
 
Man, now I'm definitely choosing Litten. Yeah, I know these evolution probably "confirm" these so-called chinese leaks, but I'm still gonna stick with the adorable fire cat anyway. The idea of a firey organ producing the sound of a bell sounds extremely pleasing, and the animations of Torracat look very fluid and enjoyable. I honestly don't care if it turns into Lucha Libre: The Experience.

Unless it turns out to be Fire/Fighting.
Then I change to Rowlet and anime prettyboy Dartrix.

Also! Unpopular Opinion! Ash-Greninja coming into the game has me all sorts of excited. I've find it pretty cool-looking, though the reasoning for that is probably because of my love for the TCG art. I probably won't use it in my in-game team, but it will have a spot on my competitive team!
 
After looking more at the wrestler theme of Litten3, I like it more and more and as such did more research on it. Although the typing is likely Fire/Dark, I can't but wonder the possibility for a Fire/Ground type instead. As such, the following below is about how a Fire/Ground Heel Wrestler could work, and how the typing combo fits in my image. Note, this is just speculation, not fact, so take it as how you will.

Litten's Final Evo thoughts/speculation:

Known Theme: Heel Wrestler
Likely typing: Fire/Dark
Hoping: Fire/Ground

Why Fire/Ground perse? / Reasons:
1. Is the best type combination with great coverage. More so than Fire/Dark. 8 types in total.
2. Has a immunity to Electric-type. Always welcome.
3. Fits with the Heel Wrestler theme still, seeing as they like to "play dirty" - emphasis on the word "Dirt", another word for Soil*
4. The gray torso may be hardened iron fur, like the Iron Shirt style, and as such, it works nice thematically with Ground, as iron comes from the Earth's crust.
5. The Tiger in Chinese myth represents the Earth, whereas the Dragon represents the sky, and are rivals of one another*
6. Volcanic Heel Wrestler Tiger sounds neat in concept.
7. Torracat's Bell resembles a miniature version of the Earth's core, especially the inner and outer core layers. The inner layer is also made of iron.
8. The commonly speculated sulphur/brimstone symbol relates to volcanoes, and sulfuric acid is a byproduct of sulfur, burning opponents. Litten3's concept art actively even showcases this.
9. The word "Torrid" from Torracat, refers to "Hot and Dry". In alchemy, while Earth element is dry and cold, and Fire is hot and dry, it could also refer to Dry (earth), and Hot (fire).
10. Ground-type moves like Sand Attack, Bulldoze, Mud Bomb and Spikes fit nicely with a Heel Wrestler's ways of literally playing dirty.
11. Litten3 personally gives off a earthen/volcanic feel to me with its red, black, orange, gray and yellow color scheme.
12. Only two prime weaknesses to Ground and Water, the latter having 4x effectiveness.

Other hopes:
I hope its name is Beltigre as according to that one fake dex leak of sometime ago. If so, it can be split into the following meanings:

1. Bell - reference to Torracat's bell, Litten3's pre-evo.
2. Belt - the belt on Litten's final evo*
3. Bel - short for possibly Belenus, a celtic fire god of the sun.
4. Beligerent - which means to be hostile and aggressive, and enaging in combat. Nice for a Heel Wrestler theme.
5. Tigre - is spanish for Tiger.
6. El-Tigre - is the name of a volcanic island located in the Gulf of Fonesca.

In addition, a Fire/Ground type could still learn some Dark, Steel, Fighting and Poison type moves to enhance the Heel Wrestler theme even more. Lastly, the chinese myth of the Tiger and Dragon represents the Earth and Sky which goes nicely with Charizard who is dragon-like and part Flying, thus can represent the Dragon. If so, this fits nicely for Pokémon's 20th Aniversary. Regardless, its likely to be a Fire/Dark in the end, but I just wanted to share this for fun, and see how others think about it.

Links:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dirty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_(classical_element)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belligerent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belenus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Island
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_(classical_element)
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-are-som...rths-core.htm#
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_shirt

*Edit:
Also found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Fire

According to the above link, its a ring of volcanic areas around the Pacific Ocean where a lot of eruptions and earthquakes happen. Its also known as the circum-Pacific belt. Now what evo we know so far emphasizes the use of a literal belt? That is right, Litten3's evo does, which also depicts it creating a spiraling ring of fire.
 
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G-Panthera said:
After looking more at the wrestler theme of Litten3, I like it more and more and as such did more research on it. Although the typing is likely Fire/Dark, I can't but wonder the possibility for a Fire/Ground type instead. As such, the following below is about how a Fire/Ground Heel Wrestler could work, and how the typing combo fits in my image. Note, this is just speculation, not fact, so take it as how you will.

Litten's Final Evo thoughts/speculation:

Known Theme: Heel Wrestler
Likely typing: Fire/Dark
Hoping: Fire/Ground

Why Fire/Ground perse? / Reasons:
1. Is the best type combination with great coverage. More so than Fire/Dark. 8 types in total.
2. Has a immunity to Electric-type. Always welcome.
3. Fits with the Heel Wrestler theme still, seeing as they like to "play dirty" - emphasis on the word "Dirt", another word for Soil*
4. The gray torso may be hardened iron fur, like the Iron Shirt style, and as such, it works nice thematically with Ground, as iron comes from the Earth's crust.
5. The Tiger in Chinese myth represents the Earth, whereas the Dragon represents the sky, and are rivals of one another*
6. Volcanic Heel Wrestler Tiger sounds neat in concept.
7. Torracat's Bell resembles a miniature version of the Earth's core, especially the inner and outer core layers. The inner layer is also made of iron.
8. The commonly speculated sulphur/brimstone symbol relates to volcanoes, and sulfuric acid is a byproduct of sulfur, burning opponents. Litten3's concept art actively even showcases this.
9. The word "Torrid" from Torracat, refers to "Hot and Dry". In alchemy, while Earth element is dry and cold, and Fire is hot and dry, it could also refer to Dry (earth), and Hot (fire).
10. Ground-type moves like Sand Attack, Bulldoze, Mud Bomb and Spikes fit nicely with a Heel Wrestler's ways of literally playing dirty.
11. Litten3 personally gives off a earthen/volcanic feel to me with its red, black, orange, gray and yellow color scheme.
12. Only two prime weaknesses to Ground and Water, the latter having 4x effectiveness.

Other hopes:
I hope its name is Beltigre as according to that one fake dex leak of sometime ago. If so, it can be split into the following meanings:

1. Bell - reference to Torracat's bell, Litten3's pre-evo.
2. Belt - the belt on Litten's final evo*
3. Bel - short for possibly Belenus, a celtic fire god of the sun.
4. Beligerent - which means to be hostile and aggressive, and enaging in combat. Nice for a Heel Wrestler theme.
5. Tigre - is spanish for Tiger.
6. El-Tigre - is the name of a volcanic island located in the Gulf of Fonesca.

In addition, a Fire/Ground type could still learn some Dark, Steel, Fighting and Poison type moves to enhance the Heel Wrestler theme even more. Lastly, the chinese myth of the Tiger and Dragon represents the Earth and Sky which goes nicely with Charizard who is dragon-like and part Flying, thus can represent the Dragon. If so, this fits nicely for Pokémon's 20th Aniversary. Regardless, its likely to be a Fire/Dark in the end, but I just wanted to share this for fun, and see how others think about it.

Links:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dirty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_(classical_element)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belligerent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belenus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Island
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_(classical_element)
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-are-som...rths-core.htm#
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_shirt

*Edit:
Also found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Fire

According to the above link, its a ring of volcanic areas around the Pacific Ocean where a lot of eruptions and earthquakes happen. Its also known as the circum-Pacific belt. Now what evo we know so far emphasizes the use of a literal belt? That is right, Litten3's evo does, which also depicts it creating a spiraling ring of fire.
Click to expand...
Very scientific. I like it!
 
StriatonIsMagic said:
Very scientific. I like it!
Click to expand...

Thanks, glad you like. I tend to make my theories and speculations stick out . There is a lot of hidden stuff that points to Ground, whereas there's not much that leads to Dark other than the point of the evo being a Heel Wrestler. Even though it could possibly be a Heel Wrestler, I tend to look beyond the usual guesses and see if I can find anything of importance.
 
I know everyone sees the Chinese leaks for real, but there are also things he got wrong. The Bewear pre-evolution was missing from his Pokedex.

However, what I really want to say is: everyone acts as if the leaked final evolutions of the starters are real! But there might also be a possibility that they are indeed fake! Is anyone considering that?
 
Chrswrites said:
I know everyone sees the Chinese leaks for real, but there are also things he got wrong. The Bewear pre-evolution was missing from his Pokedex.

However, what I really want to say is: everyone acts as if the leaked final evolutions of the starters are real! But there might also be a possibility that they are indeed fake! Is anyone considering that?
Click to expand...

I'm still hoping they're fake, though the evidence we have is in their favour. Regardless, we'll find out the truth soon enough, so it's not exactly something I devote mental energy to worrying/thinking about. Things will be what they are.
 
Athena said:
I'm still hoping they're fake, though the evidence we have is in their favour. Regardless, we'll find out the truth soon enough, so it's not exactly something I devote mental energy to worrying/thinking about. Things will be what they are.
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You are right. But on some level it annoys me that most people talk about it as if the rumors and leaks are the real deal. I still hope they are fake too. And the fact that the manes of Litten are bigger on its evolution and smaller on the leak, helps keeping my hopes up. Also with Gen 6 the leaks of the final evolutions were fake!
 
Chrswrites said:
I know everyone sees the Chinese leaks for real, but there are also things he got wrong. The Bewear pre-evolution was missing from his Pokedex.
Click to expand...
That's the wrong leak :p
The Chinese leaks predicted Passimian, Pyukumuku and Morelull. It did not mention Bewear, nor it's pre-evolved form :)
 
Chrswrites said:
You are right. But on some level it annoys me that most people talk about it as if the rumors and leaks are the real deal. I still hope they are fake too. And the fact that the manes of Litten are bigger on its evolution and smaller on the leak, helps keeping my hopes up. Also with Gen 6 the leaks of the final evolutions were fake!
Click to expand...

At the moment, they seemed fake, if only because they had another bipedal fire type with a strong... well, "strong" vibe. Fighting type or not, that's tiresome. And the owl's "bow" was a stretch. Pun not intended.

But after mallow's reveal, which was indirectly predicted by the leak, and the direction the revealed second stages took, I don't think there's much room for the case of them not being real; the only one that doesn't seem to fully match the direction of its prevolution is the grass one; going from a grass knife-throwing dandy to a hooded archer is... quite a jump; however, it's possible they were just designs in progress at the moment, or even that they make that jump and it will be clearer in the pokedex data.

That said, if the mane you mention is the part of the red pattern on torracat's head, which sticks out in torracat but doesn't in the leaked evolution, well, again, it is possible the design was unfinished (or that torracat didn't yet exist; many times the starter's stages are tackled by different designers, and it is also possible that the evolution just doesn't have it; for example, the tuft of "hair" quilladin has on its head (which in turn comes from chespin's temple) disappears in chesnaught.

It is odd that such an early leak turned out to be correct, but at this point, even if they aren't the designs that will be on the game (which is possible, since they could have been reworked after sugimori's criticism), we know that it's more than likely original GF material, if only for mallow.
Unless whoever made it knew about mallow and threw her as a minor thing among the fake evolutions so this exact thing would happen. Brilliant, if that was the case.
Or if GF purposely leaked fake but believable evolutions so everyone would shut up about them until they get to reveal them with the games, which is twice as brilliant and I wonder why don't they do that all the time.

But if they're real and you dislike them... well, heaven knows I dislike most of the starters (and all of their third stages), so I know well how that is.
 
I kind of feel like either way they're playing us with it. If it's real they're aware by now it's leaked and rather confirming or denying it they're letting us speculate the crap out the rumors. Confirming bits and pieces to spark interest but they leave just enough mystery to keep us intrigued.

I really hope the siren isn't fake though.
I'll be sad about Littens final stage, but popplio's will have me over the moon.
 
A trailer came up yesterday. It's the English translation of a Japanese trailer that was released last month:


The trailer music really sends chills down my spine. I hope the music in-game will be just as amazing.

We get the English names of the new Rides and the English name of two more Z-moves. Not to mention Ilima, a new Trial character. One of the Captains if I understood it right...
 
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Chrswrites said:
I know everyone sees the Chinese leaks for real, but there are also things he got wrong. The Bewear pre-evolution was missing from his Pokedex.

However, what I really want to say is: everyone acts as if the leaked final evolutions of the starters are real! But there might also be a possibility that they are indeed fake! Is anyone considering that?
Click to expand...
The pokedex was a separate leak, and they were in no way incorporated with one another.

Might I also remind you that the leaks have constantly been upheld by Mallow, and tons of other things from the Chinese Leak. They're just about guaranteed, but if you really don't like them, then just box them. It's what I did for Sinnoh, and Unova.
 
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