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Standard Experimenting with Baby Blacephalon

G

Geist1848

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hi all, I have been testing a new Baby Blacephalon deck and have been having some great results. After initially having terrible results with an initial build, I was inspired to try a Quad version and have been more than pleased with the results. It is shutting down Zapdos and Zoroark builds and is a little better than even against Pikarom. I have not tested much against Ultra Malamar so I am not sure about that match up. It is also having good results against Gard/Sylveon decks which is a bonus as I predict it will be at least teir 2 in the upcoming meta.

Pokemon: 5
4 Blacephalon
1 Blacephalon GX

Energy: 15
15 Fire

Trainers: 40
4 Welder
4 Green's Exploration
1 Guzma
1 Lusamine Prisim Star
4 Nest Ball
4 Pokegear 3.0
4 Fiery Flint
4 Fire Crystal
4 Energy Retrieval
3 Wishful Baton
2 Swtich
2 Rescue Stretcher
1 Beast Ring
1 Pal Pad
1 Heat Factory Prisim Star


My initial Baby Blacephalon build, which included things like Salazzle and Volcanion, was a complete failure. With this new build I have been able to largely overcome the steep energy cost for Baby Blacephalon and now I have little to no problem charging up a Blacephalon and taking one hit KO's even on Tags Teams turn one or two at the absolute latest.

With regards to the engine of this deck, I initially trembled at the thought of running no Lillie or Cynthia. I thought not running the traditional draw engine was suicide but my in testing this list I am able to accelerate/transfer energy with few problems and get enough energies into my hand almost every turn.
i actually am finding I rarely ever want to shuffle or discard to draw a new hand, the draw from Welder/ Heat Factory and the exact search from Green is more than enough to keep the deck moving. Even a first turn Lillie is not optimal as a good first turn has to include either Welder or a Green to get Welder for the following turn (I find this second option preferable many times than straight opening with Welder as the Green allows me to find a Fiery Flint or Wishful Baton as well.)

The rational for avoiding a traditional Lille/Cynthia engine are the same reasons I also avoid playing Marshadow or Dedenne GX as I rarely ever want to discard or shuffle my hand into my deck and I rely on the draw of Welder, Heat Factory, or Green's Exploration to get me what I need. After much testing I am pleasantly surprised this engine works so well. Pokegear plays a big role ensuring I get the supporter I need when I need them.

As for my last supporter consideration I was originally playing one Bill's Analysis to function as a quasi fifth Green. However, once I put in a pal pad and could regularly count on at least a fifth Green's Exploration most of the time, the need for Bill was no longer there. Instead of Bill I opted for one Guzma as there were so many times it would have been critical and in my testing it has been a great third switching option as well as a way to target the opponent's bench.

Blacephalon's biggest issue is the energy cost, so making sure I can transfer or accelerate energy through wishful baton and beast ring is ciritical. Otherwise I am desperately trying to chain Welders which prevents me from using Green to search out those item cards that allow me to fill my hand with energies. Without energy transfer/exceleration the deck flops completely. As I only play 5 pokemon I really have to make sure I always have a bench as Baby Blacephalon is not beefy. He can withstand Zapdos and some other attackers but the likes of Pikarom and Zoroark pose a grave threat.

I am considering adding a Victini Prisim Star as it would be an additional attacker effective in the mid to late game, especially when there are many energies in the discard pile and I lack the item cards to retrieve them. I have attempted to include a 2-2 line of Salazzle but it took up too much space. Volcanion, while appealing on first glance, ends up preforming poorly as it is great at accelerating on the first turn only and as I would only ever play one copy it just does not provide enough value for the space it takes up.

Moving on to stadiums, at first I was running a single copy of Viridan Forest, but switched it for a 4th energy retrieval. However, I have found myself in situations were that extra energy would have been great so I am torn about having only one stadium. More than once the opponent was able to enjoy Thunder Mountain almost the entire game as I had no way to bump it.

Looking at my Item choices, I might be willing to drop one Fiery Flint as after I have used two or three in the early to mid game the majority of the energies are in the discard already. Another card I might change is the last copy of energy retrieval as I often have hands with more means of energy retrieval than I possible could use (this is always a good problem to have!!!).

I am also back and forth on a second copy of beast ring as energy exceleration/transfer is the make or break part of this deck. Even with three Wishful Baton there are turns I am in need of beast ring and having a second might be a good backup if the Baton is field blown or simply not drawn. Also, Beast Ring can give me the option for an explosive Mind Blown attack out of nowhere with Blacephalon GX in the mid-game.

For final thoughts maybe a single Fisherman might be interesting especially on turns when I don't need Welder and would be using Green to search out Energy Retrieval Item cards anyways.

I hope I did not bore anyone with all this text, I wanted to not only share my deck list but some of the logic and my though process that went into the list. Any and all input will be valued and I look forward to the opinions of the Poke Beach Community.
 
Looks good.
You don't have a counter to bronzong or vileplume, though.

At what point in your testing was switch useful?
It seems like a dead card because it doesn't really matter what blace is in the active.
Just welder and attach to get another powered up.
Just looking at this, I would cut the 2 switch for a turtonator from dragon majesty (for bronzong) or stealthy hood (for plume) and another beast ring.
Also, swap a fire energy for a beast energy.
 
IT is really a Guzma counter. I usually am looking to use Green as often as possible. Even when I could welder to set up the other Blacephalon I often lack enough energy for me to take a KO. Like you I though this was a card I thought I would likely cut but they have been very useful dealing with Guzma. It is better for me for Blacephalon to get knocked out than gusting as I can transfer energy with Baton and start attacking right away.
 
Lord Goomy said:
Kiawe?
Click to expand...
Not worth it in this deck, as Welder does the job, you don't want to be losing a turn and not drawing cards.

I would however suggest Beast Energy as well, it makes it much easier to deal with 180HP GX's.
 
What about fisherman? and maybe a salazzle with heat factory for better draw support, also a victini prism as a safety net incase some how you lose too many energies and or prize fire crystals.
 
I fell like Power Plant is a must in this deck. Toughest matchups are Pikarom/Reshizard because of their ability to accelerate. Shutting down Tapu Lele/Dedenne/Zoroark/Zeraorah and maybe even Whimsicott right now is a big help. You could probably lose the Pal Pad as you rarely have games long enough to need it, and possibly 1-2 energy retrieval as well. You have wishful baton and fire crystal for that. I would play 2 Power Plant and 1 Heat Factory as your stadiums.
 
Fafnirchaos said:
What about fisherman? and maybe a salazzle with heat factory for better draw support, also a victini prism as a safety net incase some how you lose too many energies and or prize fire crystals.
Click to expand...

Fisherman is a definite no, you can't afford the supporter for turn; you really do need to be either using Welder or Green's every single turn. I don't even use Lusamine much in my version of this because of that.

Victini Prism Star is a thought, but a big concern with _any_ pokemon you add is that you might start it. You already mulligan most games, and adding a pokémon you really don't want to start means you'll be starting 1/6 games with a poor matchup. Same concern with the techs like Turtonator.
 
AngryBokoblin said:
Looks good.
You don't have a counter to bronzong or vileplume, though.

At what point in your testing was switch useful?
It seems like a dead card because it doesn't really matter what blace is in the active.
Just welder and attach to get another powered up.
Just looking at this, I would cut the 2 switch for a turtonator from dragon majesty (for bronzong) or stealthy hood (for plume) and another beast ring.
Also, swap a fire energy for a beast energy.
Click to expand...

I don't know that either one of those is likely to be popular enough in the meta to tech for. I've never seen Bronzong, and while the fire popularity might cause it to come into being, I think pikazek/zapdos will be there long enough to ensure it's rare or nonexistent. We'll see I guess. If anything this feels like something maybe we see in Pokebeach tourneys but not in a regional size tourney outside of the first couple of rounds.

Switch is definitely a big question. I've had games that became quite hard because I had a 0-energy Blacephalon in the active, and as OP says, that's a huge issue - even if you can Welder it to full energy, you probably don't have the energy to actually discard after that unless your welder draw is 3 fire energy.
 
Geist1848 said:
Hi all, I have been testing a new Baby Blacephalon deck and have been having some great results. After initially having terrible results with an initial build, I was inspired to try a Quad version and have been more than pleased with the results. It is shutting down Zapdos and Zoroark builds and is a little better than even against Pikarom. I have not tested much against Ultra Malamar so I am not sure about that match up. It is also having good results against Gard/Sylveon decks which is a bonus as I predict it will be at least teir 2 in the upcoming meta.

Pokemon: 5
4 Blacephalon
1 Blacephalon GX

Energy: 15
15 Fire

Trainers: 40
4 Welder
4 Green's Exploration
1 Guzma
1 Lusamine Prisim Star
4 Nest Ball
4 Pokegear 3.0
4 Fiery Flint
4 Fire Crystal
4 Energy Retrieval
3 Wishful Baton
2 Swtich
2 Rescue Stretcher
1 Beast Ring
1 Pal Pad
1 Heat Factory Prisim Star


My initial Baby Blacephalon build, which included things like Salazzle and Volcanion, was a complete failure. With this new build I have been able to largely overcome the steep energy cost for Baby Blacephalon and now I have little to no problem charging up a Blacephalon and taking one hit KO's even on Tags Teams turn one or two at the absolute latest.

With regards to the engine of this deck, I initially trembled at the thought of running no Lillie or Cynthia. I thought not running the traditional draw engine was suicide but my in testing this list I am able to accelerate/transfer energy with few problems and get enough energies into my hand almost every turn.
i actually am finding I rarely ever want to shuffle or discard to draw a new hand, the draw from Welder/ Heat Factory and the exact search from Green is more than enough to keep the deck moving. Even a first turn Lillie is not optimal as a good first turn has to include either Welder or a Green to get Welder for the following turn (I find this second option preferable many times than straight opening with Welder as the Green allows me to find a Fiery Flint or Wishful Baton as well.)

The rational for avoiding a traditional Lille/Cynthia engine are the same reasons I also avoid playing Marshadow or Dedenne GX as I rarely ever want to discard or shuffle my hand into my deck and I rely on the draw of Welder, Heat Factory, or Green's Exploration to get me what I need. After much testing I am pleasantly surprised this engine works so well. Pokegear plays a big role ensuring I get the supporter I need when I need them.

As for my last supporter consideration I was originally playing one Bill's Analysis to function as a quasi fifth Green. However, once I put in a pal pad and could regularly count on at least a fifth Green's Exploration most of the time, the need for Bill was no longer there. Instead of Bill I opted for one Guzma as there were so many times it would have been critical and in my testing it has been a great third switching option as well as a way to target the opponent's bench.

Blacephalon's biggest issue is the energy cost, so making sure I can transfer or accelerate energy through wishful baton and beast ring is ciritical. Otherwise I am desperately trying to chain Welders which prevents me from using Green to search out those item cards that allow me to fill my hand with energies. Without energy transfer/exceleration the deck flops completely. As I only play 5 pokemon I really have to make sure I always have a bench as Baby Blacephalon is not beefy. He can withstand Zapdos and some other attackers but the likes of Pikarom and Zoroark pose a grave threat.

I am considering adding a Victini Prisim Star as it would be an additional attacker effective in the mid to late game, especially when there are many energies in the discard pile and I lack the item cards to retrieve them. I have attempted to include a 2-2 line of Salazzle but it took up too much space. Volcanion, while appealing on first glance, ends up preforming poorly as it is great at accelerating on the first turn only and as I would only ever play one copy it just does not provide enough value for the space it takes up.

Moving on to stadiums, at first I was running a single copy of Viridan Forest, but switched it for a 4th energy retrieval. However, I have found myself in situations were that extra energy would have been great so I am torn about having only one stadium. More than once the opponent was able to enjoy Thunder Mountain almost the entire game as I had no way to bump it.

Looking at my Item choices, I might be willing to drop one Fiery Flint as after I have used two or three in the early to mid game the majority of the energies are in the discard already. Another card I might change is the last copy of energy retrieval as I often have hands with more means of energy retrieval than I possible could use (this is always a good problem to have!!!).

I am also back and forth on a second copy of beast ring as energy exceleration/transfer is the make or break part of this deck. Even with three Wishful Baton there are turns I am in need of beast ring and having a second might be a good backup if the Baton is field blown or simply not drawn. Also, Beast Ring can give me the option for an explosive Mind Blown attack out of nowhere with Blacephalon GX in the mid-game.

For final thoughts maybe a single Fisherman might be interesting especially on turns when I don't need Welder and would be using Green to search out Energy Retrieval Item cards anyways.

I hope I did not bore anyone with all this text, I wanted to not only share my deck list but some of the logic and my though process that went into the list. Any and all input will be valued and I look forward to the opinions of the Poke Beach Community.
Click to expand...


First off, I agree totally on no cynthia/lillie. No question those are inferior.

As for Salazzle, I think that will be more important when the meta adjusts for this deck (if it does). If Judge/Let Loose Marshadow (or Reset Stamp later on) become more of a staple to deal with this deck, you really need an on-board way to draw more. The slow down you get from playing salazzle might be offset by the utility in this instance. A solid player will just let loose you early on and you won't be able to recover otherwise (since you don't play Cynthia/Lillie). I'd also consider a few other possibilities, like Mismagius or even Blitzle, for this purpose. Has to be something that sits on the table, though, and of those Salazzle seems the most useful.

Fiery Flint is less useful late in the game, but it's going to be important early on, especially if you've been Judged, to get those energies out. I could see going down to 3, but it would require some real thought.

I would strongly recommend swapping a couple of nest balls for Ultra Space. They're basically free nest balls (Since they get every pokémon you have available), and deal with the issue with stadiums not being bumped for you. They're just as searchable as Nest Ball, too, since Green's can find them.

Beast Ring I need to think more about. I play one, and seem to find that sufficient, but it sure would be nice in games where wishful baton isn't cutting it. But I worry that it might remove too much energy from my deck (making it less likely to grab it in the draw), and my opponent can keep my energy on the table instead.

I don't play quite as many energy retrieval (I've tried 2 and 3); usually I find myself with less energy in discard really unless I'm just dominating anyway, so this is sort of a win more card for me. 4 Fire Crystals and 2-3 Energy Retrievals is plenty.
 
I for sure agree that the enemy of this deck is judge and Marshadow. It is difficult to recover if opponent uses them turn 1. I have already swapped one nest ball for an ultra space but might consider swapping out for a second one as you can often get more than one search from a single ultra space. I am still considering cutting one of the energy retrieval but I am not quite sure what to replace it with, possible an Energy Spinner or a Power Plant, even though I don't want too many stadium cards.

With regards to your first post, I am still finding lots of value in switch for the reasons mentioned in the initial post. I am hearing a lot of people telling me to cut it as there are cards of more value, however might testing has proved otherwise, at least in my experience.

I am enjoying this discussion about the potential for Baby Blowns and the best way to play this deck. All opinions are greatly appreciated.

I saw someone playing a Baby Blowns list with the Ribombee that allowed you to search for two energy from the deck per turn. While the idea sounds interesting but it might be too clunky and take up too much space for the value they are worth.
 
Ribombee has the same problem that most of these others have. You'll start too many games with it as your active.

I don't think power plant is needed because the Zoroark matchup is fine (that's its most useful matchup). It's pretty easy to take out Zoro, even if you have to discard 5 each due to no beast energy, you only have to hit 3 of them so 15 energy is easy to manage.

Energy spinner is okay. Another wishful baton, or even some acro bikes could be good additions (I play with those, actually).
 
I agree marshadow is a pain, god knows every pikarom deck runs it despite the fact it doesn't need it. Because everybody uses it as some sorta fictional autowin, I started using ways to thin my deck as fast as possible.

Also against this deck I use Lysander's lab before I attack to weaken my opponent, so maybe some sorta hand disruption should be added as your hand is really sensitive.

Just a thought.
 
snoopy369 said:
Fisherman is a definite no, you can't afford the supporter for turn; you really do need to be either using Welder or Green's every single turn. I don't even use Lusamine much in my version of this because of that.

Victini Prism Star is a thought, but a big concern with _any_ pokemon you add is that you might start it. You already mulligan most games, and adding a pokémon you really don't want to start means you'll be starting 1/6 games with a poor matchup. Same concern with the techs like Turtonator.
Click to expand...

While that is true, and I've had matches with victini at the start, it does have only 1 retreat cost. Plus if you some how go second and thin your energies you can take out a low level basic while powering up your bench.

Also I noticed that your only running 5 attackers with no tank or tech cards. With no extra basics I'm guessing mulligans aren't very kind to you, hand disruption may help you out if you want to keep this pure.
 
Fafnirchaos said:
While that is true, and I've had matches with victini at the start, it does have only 1 retreat cost. Plus if you some how go second and thin your energies you can take out a low level basic while powering up your bench.

Also I noticed that your only running 5 attackers with no tank or tech cards. With no extra basics I'm guessing mulligans aren't very kind to you, hand disruption may help you out if you want to keep this pure.
Click to expand...

I suppose I could see a turn 1 KO sometimes, but I still think this is one of those decks (like Zapdos) that basically has to start with a KO every round it's out, and I think Victini wouldn't provide that reliably. You don't really have enough discard to do that reliably.

Hand disruption... that will not really be a thing once rotation hits, for this set you can Judge, but you really can't play Marshadow as you'll start it too often (same). But both will be gone, I believe, so your only option would be to Reset Stamp them back to six (which is okay I guess, but not nearly as valuable)...
 
snoopy369 said:
I suppose I could see a turn 1 KO sometimes, but I still think this is one of those decks (like Zapdos) that basically has to start with a KO every round it's out, and I think Victini wouldn't provide that reliably. You don't really have enough discard to do that reliably.

Hand disruption... that will not really be a thing once rotation hits, for this set you can Judge, but you really can't play Marshadow as you'll start it too often (same). But both will be gone, I believe, so your only option would be to Reset Stamp them back to six (which is okay I guess, but not nearly as valuable)...
Click to expand...

Yeah not sure if you play online, but rotation is about 3 months away. However I have taken that into thought with my arcanine deck and got rid of ultra ball and nest ball(they end up bricking me more than enough) used red's challenge instead, haven't looked back.

As for hand disruption, maybe persian-gx it would give you your hand disruption when you blacephalon gx gets taken out, meowth can draw 2 cards and persian gx can get you what cards you need. That with lt.serge you can make a mess with your opponent, if he goes after it. It is a stage 1, however it takes the focus off your blacephalon's, gives you better mulligans, and works well with baton pass.
 
Fafnirchaos said:
Yeah not sure if you play online, but rotation is about 3 months away. However I have taken that into thought with my arcanine deck and got rid of ultra ball and nest ball(they end up bricking me more than enough) used red's challenge instead, haven't looked back.

As for hand disruption, maybe persian-gx it would give you your hand disruption when you blacephalon gx gets taken out, meowth can draw 2 cards and persian gx can get you what cards you need. That with lt.serge you can make a mess with your opponent, if he goes after it. It is a stage 1, however it takes the focus off your blacephalon's, gives you better mulligans, and works well with baton pass.
Click to expand...

I think all of that just slows the deck down, unfortunately. This deck is good because it is *fast*. Anything that makes it slower really has to be worth it. Just playing 4 blac 1 blac gx, I can usually take a prize a turn against 1-prize opponents, and win by turn 5 against GX opponents, when the deck works (which is most of the time) and I don't run into a water deck (though the Dewgong-focused one I hit, I still got 5 prizes against before losing). It's similar to Zapdos in that way - the only reason Ultra Zapdos works better than Zapdos Regular is that a) the techs don't cost too much, and b) they're worth a _huge_ gain against major meta decks that otherwise are troublesome opponents (Zoroark, mostly). And I'm still not convinced Ultra Zapdos will be the better matchup post-UBB, with Zoroark and Malamar both fading significantly in the meta; Turbo Zapdos may come back to be the better deck (or a water-teched version).
 
Yeah sorry I don't know any of those meta decks, I was just looking at your deck as is, and see what can help against it from the inside.

Reshiram and charizard runs field blower, blacephalon gx's attack hurts your other blacephalon's, and Gengar mimikyu runs item lock, was just looking at ways of improvement. When it comes to the whole meta that comes out of japan, I really have no interest, or knowledge.
 
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