...
Last edited:
Extended(Unlimited) Ban/limit list and Unlimited discussion
- Thread starter Lolmonster
- Start date
Where's Broken Time-Space?
I still think porygon2 should still be banned using that many supporters a turn is so imbalanced. Also just note porydonk only uses drifblim because it is the most efficient. I am sure there is a way to make a machamp/porygon2 with luxray or warppoint to get a basic in the active. I say just ban either seeker or porygon 2 for a healthy format.
Bwaaaa
Bwaaaa
Your list has way too many cards on it. I'm also surprised you didn't hit Broken Time-Space, since its ban would solve the problems a lot of the other cards present. Also, nothing that's legal in Modified should really be hit in Unlimited. It just doesn't make sense really. A card like Pokemon Catcher isn't really that much more potent in Unlimited than Modified, and I'm sure you wouldn't consider imposing such a list on Modified. You have the right idea on some of the cards, like Professor Oak, Sableye, Muk, Super Energy Removal and Lass, but it's far from a perfect list. You should be trying to put as few cards as are necessary on it. You seem to be including cards that are powerful, but not broken, as well just for the sake of them not being used. And mass release shouldn't matter to whether a card gets banned or not. If it's legal, it should be usable unless it presents a major gameplay problem, like any other card.
What if somebody used Blaine's quiz and asked you how long regice ex is? Or played tropical beach/tidal wave to give a serious advantage? or turn 1 ascension into fossil muk? Cards not compatible(Pokemon Catcher Machamp anyone?)
Uxie is okay as long as you don't abuse it. I was iffy on crobat but decided mr. fuji pushes it over.
and hitting bts wouldn't help, since then big basics rule the format. with this pretty much any card that doesn't suck has a chance.
Uxie is okay as long as you don't abuse it. I was iffy on crobat but decided mr. fuji pushes it over.
and hitting bts wouldn't help, since then big basics rule the format. with this pretty much any card that doesn't suck has a chance.
The thing about this list is it's very reactionary.
Oh no, there's a good deck! Let's take away its key cards so it doesn't exist!
Boost Energy? Oh boy, that's only used for Drifblim! Why do 70 with Samurott and waste extra spaces for the line if you can automatically take away the Defending Pokémon with Drifblim?
I think if you DO make a ban list, BTS should be on it. Then you can still have PoryDonk and such, it's just a lot less effective.
Oh no, there's a good deck! Let's take away its key cards so it doesn't exist!
Boost Energy? Oh boy, that's only used for Drifblim! Why do 70 with Samurott and waste extra spaces for the line if you can automatically take away the Defending Pokémon with Drifblim?
I think if you DO make a ban list, BTS should be on it. Then you can still have PoryDonk and such, it's just a lot less effective.
If you plan to actually make a good banlist, you have to have several tourneys with no banlist and then see what the Top 4 decks are, and if the majority of those decks are playing a specific card, you limit or ban it. You almost have to base this list off the Magic banlist...
^Right, any card that becomes insanely OP can be banned, but you can't effectively ban a deck by banning its key card, and a card that only it uses.
0 per deck:
Professor Oak(Base)-Supporter, lets keep it that way.
^good
Tropical Beach
^no
Tropical Tidal Wave(Not mass released, shouldn't be legal. Wind was mass released so it's fine)
^no
Computer Search A little too good. Pidgeot is balanced.
^yes
Ancient Technical Machine rock HerpDerpATMrock
^no
Jolteon *(PK) Point is to stop donks
^no
Sableye (SF) ^
^yes
Muk(Fossil) EX balances the power.
^yes
Gliscor Lv X(LA) No infinite lock. Briney softens the pain a little, but not enough to justify
^no
Lass Going first doesn't need MORE advantage does it?
^yes
Rocket's Sneak attack I'm iffy tbh, but I like it banned more then limited.
um. remind me what that do
Energy Removal Should be Obvious
^yes
Super Energy Removal ^
^probs not.
Crobat G NO DONKS PLOX
^yes
Gust of Wind Broken. Makes too many cards unplayable
^yes
Pokemon Catcher ^
^legal
Double Gust ^
^no
Chaos Gym Too dumb
^IDK
Cessation Crystal Really broken. Shutting off most decks with one card is too good. Also inb4 gothcess
^no
Blaine's Quiz #1 \ These aren't compatible. Find a length on an ex please
Blaine's Quiz #3 /
^no
Boost Energy SO MANY BS DONKS ARE POSSIBLE WITH THIS. BTS into samurott and 70 lolgg
^no
Porygon2 GE Say no to donks
^no only thing it would make it broken would have to limit Seeker.
Scoop up should be banned.
I'm not sure on these, but I feel they need a limit(1-2 per deck maybe)
Erika
^limited yes
Mr. Fuji
^yes
Double Gust
^no
Scoop up
^have it banned
Uxie(LA)
^yes
seeker
^yes
so thats my opinion.
Professor Oak(Base)-Supporter, lets keep it that way.
^good
Tropical Beach
^no
Tropical Tidal Wave(Not mass released, shouldn't be legal. Wind was mass released so it's fine)
^no
Computer Search A little too good. Pidgeot is balanced.
^yes
Ancient Technical Machine rock HerpDerpATMrock
^no
Jolteon *(PK) Point is to stop donks
^no
Sableye (SF) ^
^yes
Muk(Fossil) EX balances the power.
^yes
Gliscor Lv X(LA) No infinite lock. Briney softens the pain a little, but not enough to justify
^no
Lass Going first doesn't need MORE advantage does it?
^yes
Rocket's Sneak attack I'm iffy tbh, but I like it banned more then limited.
um. remind me what that do
Energy Removal Should be Obvious
^yes
Super Energy Removal ^
^probs not.
Crobat G NO DONKS PLOX
^yes
Gust of Wind Broken. Makes too many cards unplayable
^yes
Pokemon Catcher ^
^legal
Double Gust ^
^no
Chaos Gym Too dumb
^IDK
Cessation Crystal Really broken. Shutting off most decks with one card is too good. Also inb4 gothcess
^no
Blaine's Quiz #1 \ These aren't compatible. Find a length on an ex please
Blaine's Quiz #3 /
^no
Boost Energy SO MANY BS DONKS ARE POSSIBLE WITH THIS. BTS into samurott and 70 lolgg
^no
Porygon2 GE Say no to donks
^no only thing it would make it broken would have to limit Seeker.
Scoop up should be banned.
I'm not sure on these, but I feel they need a limit(1-2 per deck maybe)
Erika
^limited yes
Mr. Fuji
^yes
Double Gust
^no
Scoop up
^have it banned
Uxie(LA)
^yes
seeker
^yes
so thats my opinion.
Muddy68 said:
Unofficial Skype tourney anyone?
~SS
I did a banlist that took me a lot of time.
After doing that list, I thought to myself "a EX-on extended format would be way easier to maintain". Less rules compatibility problems, and a really smaller banlist...
So because it is Unlimited, obviously it is a long list, and only playtesting would make a good banlist.
But the problem at the moment is that the battles can't really do more than one turn (I mean the second player must be able to play, not being locked), so you have to make a basic banlist to at least prevent this from happening.
The following cards should be banned no matter what, because :
1) They win the game on Turn 1
2) They allow to draw or search in deck too easily (thus allowing a Turn 1)
3) They're just plain broken and go against some basic principles of Pokémon
Computer Search (Base Set) (search in deck, combo with discard)
Lass (Base Set) (turn 1 BAM once I set up I remove all of your TSS)
Scoop Up (Base Set) (stupid combo with everything)
Super Energy Removal (Base Set) (NO ! )
Prof Oak (Base Set) (draw seven with a Trainer, all is said)
Energy Removal (Base Set) (NO !² )
Aerodactyl (Fossil) (combo with Aggron EX and Dark Vileplume, win turn 1)
Dark Vileplume (Team Rocket) (turn 1 no more TSS until the end of the game)
Erika (Gym Heroes) (draw waaaaay too easily)
Misty's Wrath (Gym Heroes) (draw way too easily, combo with discard)
The Rocket's Trap (Gym Heroes) (turn one you have no hand left)
Chaos Gym (Gym Challenge) (turn one I set up I play Chaos Gym)
Slowking (Neo Genesis) (turn 1 you cannot play TSS)
Bill's Teleporter (Neo Genesis) (draw way too easily)
Jolteon Star (EX Power Keepers) (turn one you win without attacking)
Umbreon Star (POP Series 5) (turn one you have no hand left)
Forretress (Legends Awakened) (turn 1 win by attaching a lot of energy cards)
Uxie (Legends Awakened) (I draw, Scoop Up I draw, Briney I draw, Seeker I draw...)
Sableye (Stormfront) (no brainer)
Poké Drawer + (Stormfront) (let's seek any two cards for free !)
Crobat G (Platinum) (turn one you win without attacking)
Broken Time Space (Platinum) (Kingdra Prime / Dark Golbat / Crobat, and T1 combos)
Seeker (Triumphant) (Porygon2 Seeker... And stupid combos like Scoop Up)
Limited (1 copy per deck) :
Blaine's Quiz #2 (Gym Challenge) (draw too easily)
Lt. Surge's Treaty (Gym Heroes) (draw too easily)
Card-Flip Game (Neo Genesis) (draw too easily)
Porygon2 (Great Encounters) (combo with Seeker, and way too abusable)
Pokédex HANDY910is (Diamond and Pearl) (draw too easily)
And here is a veeeeeeryyyyyyy looooong list of "I don't know what to do with those" cards :
The following cards are at least worth noticing, I don't know what to do with those :
Gust of Wind (Base Set) (combo with Murkrow, and too powerful overall)
Item Finder (Base Set) (if you ban broken trainers and draw trainers maybe it's allowable)
Pokémon Center (Base Set) (heal everyone !)
Pokémon Flute (Base Set) (without heavy discard turn 1 it's allowable)
Mr. Fuji (Fossil) (another card to reuse "comes into play" effects)
Dark Golbat (Team Rocket) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Rocket's Sneak Attack (Team Rocket) (if reusable with Item Finder / Junk Arm, I'd ban it)
Impostor Oak's Revenge (Team Rocket) (if discard trainers / powers are allowed, I'd ban it)
Goop Gas Attack (Team Rocket) (shut down all powers / bodies / abilities until opponent's turn)
Erika's Dratini (Gym Heroes) (If you allow Aerodactyl + a trainer lock, ban it)
Erika's Perfume (Gym Heroes) (don't mind if I fill up your bench ?)
Secret Mission (Gym Heroes) (draw + discard but no card advantage)
Energy Flow (Gym Heroes) (if you allow LA Forretress, ban it)
Narrow Gym (Gym Heroes) (that's a Scoop Up)
Sabrina's Gaze (Gym Heroes) (draw trainer but no card advantage)
Trash Exchange (Gym Heroes) (stupid combos to be done)
Misty's Wish (Gym Challenge) (draw 1 card everytime after Azelf used Time Walk)
Murkrow (Neo Genesis) (turn 1 GoW and trainer lock, your active is stucked forever), bar Cyclone / Warp Energy)
Double Gust (Neo Genesis) (Gust of Wind like)
Super Scoop Up (Neo Genesis) (abusable "comes into play" effects)
Hyper Devolution Spray (Neo Discovery) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Dark Crobat (Neo Destiny) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Pokémon Personality Test (Neo Destiny) (draw trainer usable with Dark Pokémon)
Mail from Bill (Neo Destiny) (draw until you have 4 cards in hand, maybe abusable)
Dark Ivysaur (BEST Promos) (Gust of Wind like)
Espeon (Aquapolis) (if you allow LA Forretress, ban it ASAP)
Suicune (Aquapolis) (combo with Rain Dance / Trash Exchange and or LA Kingdra)
Boost Energy (Aquapolis) (turn 1 Drifblim UD)
Beedrill (Skyridge) (You're paralysed, Devolutionary you're paralysed...)
Gyarados (Skyridge) (Energy Removal in power, but only on the active)
Ancient Ruins (Skyridge) (draw 1 card)
Desert Shaman (Skyridge) (Judge, if there are discard trainers / powers, I'd ban it)
Oracle (Skyridge) (take two cards, put them on top, and draw them with a draw trainer)
Pokémon Reversal (EX Ruby Sapphire) (GoW with a coin flip)
Mr Briney's Compassion (EX Dragon) (see Scoop Up, but it's a Supporter)
Pidgeot (EX FireRed LeafGreen) (Search any card once per turn)
Electrode ex (EX FireRed LeafGreen) (Abusable with Rocket's Admin / N)
Rocket's Admin (EX Team Rocket's Return) (combo with Electrodes early game)
Swoop! Teleporter (EX Team Rocket's Return) (strong, combo with Jirachi DX)
Milotic (EX Hidden Legends) (Heal everyone !)
Jirachi (EX Deoxys) (combo with Swoop! Teleporter)
Shedinja (EX Deoxys) (chain of Shedinjas never giving a prize is possible in Unlimited)
Crobat ex (EX Deoxys) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Ursaring (EX Unseen Forces) (If you allow Aerodactyl + a trainer lock, ban it)
Aipom (EX Unseen Forces) (effective draw)
Espeon ex (EX Unseen Forces) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Umbreon ex (EX Unseen Forces) (Gust of Wind like)
Jolteon ex (EX Delta Species) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Aquali ex (EX Delta Species) (Judge, if there are discard trainers / powers, I'd ban it)
Giant Stump (EX Legend Maker) (strong but it's not a Scoop Up like Narrow Gym. Combo with Erika's Perfume)
Holon Circle (EX Crystal Guardians) (you don't attack, you don't attack, you don't attack)
Aggron ex (EX Crystal Guardians) (If you allow Aerodactyl + a trainer lock, ban it)
Metagross ex (EX Power Keepers) (Judge, if there are discard trainers / powers, I'd ban it)
Luxray GL Lv X (Rising Rivals) (Gust of Wind like)
Kingdra (Unleashed) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Judge (Unleashed) (if there are discard trainers / powers, I'd ban it)
Weavile (Undaunted) (if you allow BTS, ban this or your opponent has no cards in hand left)
Junk Arm (Triumphant) (See Item Finder)
N (Emerging Powers) (Abusable with Electrodes)
Pokémon Catcher (Red Collection) (combo with Murkrow, and too powerful overall)
If anyone is brave enough to read all of this, please comment 'cause I'm probably not objective on some cards's strengths.
After doing that list, I thought to myself "a EX-on extended format would be way easier to maintain". Less rules compatibility problems, and a really smaller banlist...
So because it is Unlimited, obviously it is a long list, and only playtesting would make a good banlist.
But the problem at the moment is that the battles can't really do more than one turn (I mean the second player must be able to play, not being locked), so you have to make a basic banlist to at least prevent this from happening.
The following cards should be banned no matter what, because :
1) They win the game on Turn 1
2) They allow to draw or search in deck too easily (thus allowing a Turn 1)
3) They're just plain broken and go against some basic principles of Pokémon
Computer Search (Base Set) (search in deck, combo with discard)
Lass (Base Set) (turn 1 BAM once I set up I remove all of your TSS)
Scoop Up (Base Set) (stupid combo with everything)
Super Energy Removal (Base Set) (NO ! )
Prof Oak (Base Set) (draw seven with a Trainer, all is said)
Energy Removal (Base Set) (NO !² )
Aerodactyl (Fossil) (combo with Aggron EX and Dark Vileplume, win turn 1)
Dark Vileplume (Team Rocket) (turn 1 no more TSS until the end of the game)
Erika (Gym Heroes) (draw waaaaay too easily)
Misty's Wrath (Gym Heroes) (draw way too easily, combo with discard)
The Rocket's Trap (Gym Heroes) (turn one you have no hand left)
Chaos Gym (Gym Challenge) (turn one I set up I play Chaos Gym)
Slowking (Neo Genesis) (turn 1 you cannot play TSS)
Bill's Teleporter (Neo Genesis) (draw way too easily)
Jolteon Star (EX Power Keepers) (turn one you win without attacking)
Umbreon Star (POP Series 5) (turn one you have no hand left)
Forretress (Legends Awakened) (turn 1 win by attaching a lot of energy cards)
Uxie (Legends Awakened) (I draw, Scoop Up I draw, Briney I draw, Seeker I draw...)
Sableye (Stormfront) (no brainer)
Poké Drawer + (Stormfront) (let's seek any two cards for free !)
Crobat G (Platinum) (turn one you win without attacking)
Broken Time Space (Platinum) (Kingdra Prime / Dark Golbat / Crobat, and T1 combos)
Seeker (Triumphant) (Porygon2 Seeker... And stupid combos like Scoop Up)
Limited (1 copy per deck) :
Blaine's Quiz #2 (Gym Challenge) (draw too easily)
Lt. Surge's Treaty (Gym Heroes) (draw too easily)
Card-Flip Game (Neo Genesis) (draw too easily)
Porygon2 (Great Encounters) (combo with Seeker, and way too abusable)
Pokédex HANDY910is (Diamond and Pearl) (draw too easily)
And here is a veeeeeeryyyyyyy looooong list of "I don't know what to do with those" cards :
The following cards are at least worth noticing, I don't know what to do with those :
Gust of Wind (Base Set) (combo with Murkrow, and too powerful overall)
Item Finder (Base Set) (if you ban broken trainers and draw trainers maybe it's allowable)
Pokémon Center (Base Set) (heal everyone !)
Pokémon Flute (Base Set) (without heavy discard turn 1 it's allowable)
Mr. Fuji (Fossil) (another card to reuse "comes into play" effects)
Dark Golbat (Team Rocket) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Rocket's Sneak Attack (Team Rocket) (if reusable with Item Finder / Junk Arm, I'd ban it)
Impostor Oak's Revenge (Team Rocket) (if discard trainers / powers are allowed, I'd ban it)
Goop Gas Attack (Team Rocket) (shut down all powers / bodies / abilities until opponent's turn)
Erika's Dratini (Gym Heroes) (If you allow Aerodactyl + a trainer lock, ban it)
Erika's Perfume (Gym Heroes) (don't mind if I fill up your bench ?)
Secret Mission (Gym Heroes) (draw + discard but no card advantage)
Energy Flow (Gym Heroes) (if you allow LA Forretress, ban it)
Narrow Gym (Gym Heroes) (that's a Scoop Up)
Sabrina's Gaze (Gym Heroes) (draw trainer but no card advantage)
Trash Exchange (Gym Heroes) (stupid combos to be done)
Misty's Wish (Gym Challenge) (draw 1 card everytime after Azelf used Time Walk)
Murkrow (Neo Genesis) (turn 1 GoW and trainer lock, your active is stucked forever), bar Cyclone / Warp Energy)
Double Gust (Neo Genesis) (Gust of Wind like)
Super Scoop Up (Neo Genesis) (abusable "comes into play" effects)
Hyper Devolution Spray (Neo Discovery) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Dark Crobat (Neo Destiny) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Pokémon Personality Test (Neo Destiny) (draw trainer usable with Dark Pokémon)
Mail from Bill (Neo Destiny) (draw until you have 4 cards in hand, maybe abusable)
Dark Ivysaur (BEST Promos) (Gust of Wind like)
Espeon (Aquapolis) (if you allow LA Forretress, ban it ASAP)
Suicune (Aquapolis) (combo with Rain Dance / Trash Exchange and or LA Kingdra)
Boost Energy (Aquapolis) (turn 1 Drifblim UD)
Beedrill (Skyridge) (You're paralysed, Devolutionary you're paralysed...)
Gyarados (Skyridge) (Energy Removal in power, but only on the active)
Ancient Ruins (Skyridge) (draw 1 card)
Desert Shaman (Skyridge) (Judge, if there are discard trainers / powers, I'd ban it)
Oracle (Skyridge) (take two cards, put them on top, and draw them with a draw trainer)
Pokémon Reversal (EX Ruby Sapphire) (GoW with a coin flip)
Mr Briney's Compassion (EX Dragon) (see Scoop Up, but it's a Supporter)
Pidgeot (EX FireRed LeafGreen) (Search any card once per turn)
Electrode ex (EX FireRed LeafGreen) (Abusable with Rocket's Admin / N)
Rocket's Admin (EX Team Rocket's Return) (combo with Electrodes early game)
Swoop! Teleporter (EX Team Rocket's Return) (strong, combo with Jirachi DX)
Milotic (EX Hidden Legends) (Heal everyone !)
Jirachi (EX Deoxys) (combo with Swoop! Teleporter)
Shedinja (EX Deoxys) (chain of Shedinjas never giving a prize is possible in Unlimited)
Crobat ex (EX Deoxys) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Ursaring (EX Unseen Forces) (If you allow Aerodactyl + a trainer lock, ban it)
Aipom (EX Unseen Forces) (effective draw)
Espeon ex (EX Unseen Forces) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Umbreon ex (EX Unseen Forces) (Gust of Wind like)
Jolteon ex (EX Delta Species) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Aquali ex (EX Delta Species) (Judge, if there are discard trainers / powers, I'd ban it)
Giant Stump (EX Legend Maker) (strong but it's not a Scoop Up like Narrow Gym. Combo with Erika's Perfume)
Holon Circle (EX Crystal Guardians) (you don't attack, you don't attack, you don't attack)
Aggron ex (EX Crystal Guardians) (If you allow Aerodactyl + a trainer lock, ban it)
Metagross ex (EX Power Keepers) (Judge, if there are discard trainers / powers, I'd ban it)
Luxray GL Lv X (Rising Rivals) (Gust of Wind like)
Kingdra (Unleashed) (if you allow BTS, ban this)
Judge (Unleashed) (if there are discard trainers / powers, I'd ban it)
Weavile (Undaunted) (if you allow BTS, ban this or your opponent has no cards in hand left)
Junk Arm (Triumphant) (See Item Finder)
N (Emerging Powers) (Abusable with Electrodes)
Pokémon Catcher (Red Collection) (combo with Murkrow, and too powerful overall)
If anyone is brave enough to read all of this, please comment 'cause I'm probably not objective on some cards's strengths.
I disagree with banning Porygon2. Once BTS most easy drawpower are taken out, Porygon2 doesn't become a problem (in fact, no donk decks are).
Scizorliscious said:
this is the case with most of the list, its just too big.
half the problem is that if theres a broken combo, you decide to put every card in the combo on the list, when usually you can stop the combo with getting rid of just one of them. might even be ale to shut down multiple combos with banning one card
really though, if you just take out some of the trainers to really slow down the format, you night find that most of those broken decks arnt so broken once they cant draw through their whole deck in a turn.
the only pokemon that should be on an initial banlist are sableye, uxie, crobat G, and slowking
also N isnt in emerging powers, and how would any supporter be broken in unlimited?(except maybe seeker)
There isn't an errata on this card, even if the mistranslation makes it broken.Lolmonster said:
Spidy Freakshow > Did you play Murkrow when it was released ? It fully deserve a ban if Trainer Lock and / or GoW is allowed.
Some games were like "3 Slowking on my bench, GoW I choose Cleffa on your bench, Mean Look, I won"
And if you allow Forretress LA, you have to ban Espeon Aquapolis because it is an instant win... =/
So I do think banning Forretress LA is a good thing.