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Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Hawlucha / Altaria)
- Thread starter Dark Espeon
- Start date
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Tornadus / Hawlucha / Terrakion)
Hi Ironman131,
Thanks for the review. i am not a fan of Ninetales since he can backfire in two ways. When faced with Primal Groundon Ex he can lock out Skyfield forever until he is knocked out. Second, he makes it more difficult to reuse Shaymin Ex, who is the first card that I will discard if the stadium is countered. With Lysandre's Last Resort and Ultra Ball it is not difficult at all to obtain it back and reuse it to refill ones hand during the same turn.
Hi Vom,
Thanks for the review. Will be sure to look into Bouffalant.
Hi Thirteen,
Ninetales can backfire as mentioned above. Several Pokémon in this deck serve as bench sitters or have conditional use. It does not hurt to discard them when you can get them back with Lysandre's Last Resort and search for them fast. it also allows the deck to reuse Shyamin Ex instead of having him sit on the bench with a bullseye attached to them.
Hi Ironman131,
Thanks for the review. i am not a fan of Ninetales since he can backfire in two ways. When faced with Primal Groundon Ex he can lock out Skyfield forever until he is knocked out. Second, he makes it more difficult to reuse Shaymin Ex, who is the first card that I will discard if the stadium is countered. With Lysandre's Last Resort and Ultra Ball it is not difficult at all to obtain it back and reuse it to refill ones hand during the same turn.
Hi Vom,
Thanks for the review. Will be sure to look into Bouffalant.
Hi Thirteen,
Ninetales can backfire as mentioned above. Several Pokémon in this deck serve as bench sitters or have conditional use. It does not hurt to discard them when you can get them back with Lysandre's Last Resort and search for them fast. it also allows the deck to reuse Shyamin Ex instead of having him sit on the bench with a bullseye attached to them.
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Bouffalant / Altaria / Landorus)
Hi folks,
Revised the deck to include ancient trait Altaria to handle the [L] weakness of the main attacker.
Hi folks,
Revised the deck to include ancient trait Altaria to handle the [L] weakness of the main attacker.
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Altaria / Landorus)
Hi folks,
Updated the deck again. It now includes Altaria to cancel weakness and three Shaymin Ex to draw more cards and fill the bench. Landorus remains as the only non-colorless attacker to have an alternate means to accelerate and attack Safe Guarders.
Hi folks,
Updated the deck again. It now includes Altaria to cancel weakness and three Shaymin Ex to draw more cards and fill the bench. Landorus remains as the only non-colorless attacker to have an alternate means to accelerate and attack Safe Guarders.
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Altaria / Landorus)
With the low amount of HP Shaymin EX has, I think including a Mr. Mime would help against Landorus EX's Hammer Head.
With the low amount of HP Shaymin EX has, I think including a Mr. Mime would help against Landorus EX's Hammer Head.
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Altaria / Landorus)
Hey, here to give my feedback again (I personally love reading your future lists btw).
I do agree that ninetails is a bit unreliable and is not good against Groudon, but I think hes needed in the deck. Is there a need to play BOTH Landorus EX and Altaria? One or the other seems fine, but together seems counterproductive; you don't need 2 counters to lightning...especially in a heavy Fighting format (donphan, landobats, groudon, machamp decks, etc.). I'd personally take out the altaria line for a 2-2 ninetails line. You said ninetails bad against groudon EX, but thats where I disagree. Say for example you are playing against that deck and they discard the stadium and you have 6-8 pokemon benched (including one ninetails)...then out of the 1-3 pokemon discard a ninetails line. You'll be able to shuffle all back in with LTC, so its not too big of a deal.
Another problem is your lack of pokemon. Sure, you run Winona, Ultra Ball, and 11 pokemon (plus a lot of draw), but that does not mean that you'll get that consistent OHKOes with Rayquaza if possible. Some changes i want to make is to add Exeggcute and increase Ultra Ball counts and lower Winona counts. This would be good because not only does it help with many discard cards, but it is helpful if you need 1 extra pokemon for a KO.
Here's what I would play the deck as:
Pokémon (18):
3 M Rayquaza EX (beatdown)
4 Rayquaza EX (beatdown)
3 Shaymin EX (card draw)
2 Landorus (beatdown)
2 Vulpix (Evolution)
2 Ninetails (guard)
1 Exeggcute (draw)
1 Mr. Mime (guard)
Trainers (33):
1 Lysandre’s Last Resort (conserve)
4 Professor Sycamore (draw)
2 Winona (search)
2 Lysandre (gust)
2 Colress (draw)
3 N (draw)
3 Rayquaza Spirit Link (evolve)
1 Computer Search (search)
3 Mega Turbo (accelerate)
1 Escape Rope (gust)
3 Vs Seeker (reuse)
4 Ultra Ball (search)
3 Skyfield (increase bench size)
1 battle compressor (setup)
Energy (9):
4 Double Colorless Energy
5 Fighting Energy
1st off, I think 7 fighting was waayy too much, You don't want to be running into it as often as you are running into DCEs. I added a Mr. Mime because the deck can lose if it accumulates a lot of snipe damage (also counts as a benched Pokémon). I took out the altaria line because it wasn't needed as you run Landorus EX. If you feel that it is needed, then i would highly suggest taking out the Lando and fighting for another energy typing. 4 Ultra is to make sure you run into pokemon you need wheras Winona gets too many pokemon to take advantage of Shaymins ability (Ultra ball discards 2 cards). Egg is a cool card and would be interesting paired with mime. One last card I put in was a battle compressor. This is very good in the deck IMHO. You need to get energy into the discard...but at the same time you have a low supporter count. With the VS seekers you run (and hopefully you make room for 4 because the deck needs it), it will be amazing early game especially if you don't have an ultra ball.
Thats my 2 cents. If there are some grammar mistakes sorry, I was typing this really quickly. I hope you take my opinions into consideration and I hope to hear from you soon!
~Elbow
Please elaborate this. How does landorus EX go through safeguarders...by attacking the bench? I feel that that is a whole different ballgame.
Hey, here to give my feedback again (I personally love reading your future lists btw).
I do agree that ninetails is a bit unreliable and is not good against Groudon, but I think hes needed in the deck. Is there a need to play BOTH Landorus EX and Altaria? One or the other seems fine, but together seems counterproductive; you don't need 2 counters to lightning...especially in a heavy Fighting format (donphan, landobats, groudon, machamp decks, etc.). I'd personally take out the altaria line for a 2-2 ninetails line. You said ninetails bad against groudon EX, but thats where I disagree. Say for example you are playing against that deck and they discard the stadium and you have 6-8 pokemon benched (including one ninetails)...then out of the 1-3 pokemon discard a ninetails line. You'll be able to shuffle all back in with LTC, so its not too big of a deal.
Another problem is your lack of pokemon. Sure, you run Winona, Ultra Ball, and 11 pokemon (plus a lot of draw), but that does not mean that you'll get that consistent OHKOes with Rayquaza if possible. Some changes i want to make is to add Exeggcute and increase Ultra Ball counts and lower Winona counts. This would be good because not only does it help with many discard cards, but it is helpful if you need 1 extra pokemon for a KO.
Here's what I would play the deck as:
Pokémon (18):
3 M Rayquaza EX (beatdown)
4 Rayquaza EX (beatdown)
3 Shaymin EX (card draw)
2 Landorus (beatdown)
2 Vulpix (Evolution)
2 Ninetails (guard)
1 Exeggcute (draw)
1 Mr. Mime (guard)
Trainers (33):
1 Lysandre’s Last Resort (conserve)
4 Professor Sycamore (draw)
2 Winona (search)
2 Lysandre (gust)
2 Colress (draw)
3 N (draw)
3 Rayquaza Spirit Link (evolve)
1 Computer Search (search)
3 Mega Turbo (accelerate)
1 Escape Rope (gust)
3 Vs Seeker (reuse)
4 Ultra Ball (search)
3 Skyfield (increase bench size)
1 battle compressor (setup)
Energy (9):
4 Double Colorless Energy
5 Fighting Energy
1st off, I think 7 fighting was waayy too much, You don't want to be running into it as often as you are running into DCEs. I added a Mr. Mime because the deck can lose if it accumulates a lot of snipe damage (also counts as a benched Pokémon). I took out the altaria line because it wasn't needed as you run Landorus EX. If you feel that it is needed, then i would highly suggest taking out the Lando and fighting for another energy typing. 4 Ultra is to make sure you run into pokemon you need wheras Winona gets too many pokemon to take advantage of Shaymins ability (Ultra ball discards 2 cards). Egg is a cool card and would be interesting paired with mime. One last card I put in was a battle compressor. This is very good in the deck IMHO. You need to get energy into the discard...but at the same time you have a low supporter count. With the VS seekers you run (and hopefully you make room for 4 because the deck needs it), it will be amazing early game especially if you don't have an ultra ball.
Thats my 2 cents. If there are some grammar mistakes sorry, I was typing this really quickly. I hope you take my opinions into consideration and I hope to hear from you soon!
~Elbow
Dark Espeon said:
Please elaborate this. How does landorus EX go through safeguarders...by attacking the bench? I feel that that is a whole different ballgame.
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Altaria / Landorus)
I hadn't thought of discarding the Ninetales when Skyfield is discarded, that's indeed pretty smart. As for the changes you suggested, I agree with most except the 2 Winona and 4 Ultra Ball.
Winona is 3 Korrina minus Items, and it's really good in the deck, especially if played with the Altaria line, which is pretty relevant. Meta is mostly Fighting, yes, but that doesn't stop people from running MegaMan and in some cases (very few though) Thundurus-EX; so I think at least a 1-1 should be included; as with Mr.Mime and Delta Evolution chances are it stays in play.
@Landorus: It's the FFI one, not the EX.
I hadn't thought of discarding the Ninetales when Skyfield is discarded, that's indeed pretty smart. As for the changes you suggested, I agree with most except the 2 Winona and 4 Ultra Ball.
Winona is 3 Korrina minus Items, and it's really good in the deck, especially if played with the Altaria line, which is pretty relevant. Meta is mostly Fighting, yes, but that doesn't stop people from running MegaMan and in some cases (very few though) Thundurus-EX; so I think at least a 1-1 should be included; as with Mr.Mime and Delta Evolution chances are it stays in play.
@Landorus: It's the FFI one, not the EX.
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Altaria / Landorus)
They run the regular landorus from furious fists not Landorus EX. I think the Alteria line would be helpful at least as a 1-1 line in the event you are playing against a M Manectric EX deck which I think will get more popular once the rotation hits. If you dont ned the alteria then you could just discard them with ultra balls and what not. In my opinnion you could go with 3 Rayqueza EX's and 2 M Rayqueza EX but the extra one of each could be helpful.
They run the regular landorus from furious fists not Landorus EX. I think the Alteria line would be helpful at least as a 1-1 line in the event you are playing against a M Manectric EX deck which I think will get more popular once the rotation hits. If you dont ned the alteria then you could just discard them with ultra balls and what not. In my opinnion you could go with 3 Rayqueza EX's and 2 M Rayqueza EX but the extra one of each could be helpful.
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Altaria / Landorus)
My mistake about the Landorus, when it had said 'beatdown' on the front page I assumed it was the EX sorry.
My statement still stands about the electric types. I have not seen any manectric deck since before winter regionals. There are just too many fighting type decks in the format to run a sucessful Manectric EX archytype. I do think that you don't need to worry too much about that electric type or really any others right now as none of them can OHKO you too. The only one that can is a manectric EX and you have a spirit link tool attached, but thats leaving manectric at an easily KOable 170 hp.
I personally like the idea of a 4-3 line Ironman131 because it allows for multiple parts to be prized but still can usually start with Rayqauza and can get up the mega by turn 2 (kinda like Virizion Genesect actually
)
Vom, I would like to point out that Lysandre would probably be played in the matchup at least once, probably 2-3 times. If they do kill one altaria, one part of the the other altaria will be prized/discarded for sure. Its kinda useless in the matchup tbh, Its different with Yvetal decks because they can't take the OHKO from megamanny, but mega Rayquaza can. If you were concerned about weakness, I would play a weakness policy (just 1) instead. Mega Manectric decks don't usually play megaphones because they play team flare tools, so if you mega evolve one turn while stalling with the landorus active, you should be in a good spot. And, because megamanny needs the spirit link, they will only be doing 220 damage, which means they will have to attack with something else or accept a 3HKO.
Also Vom, my strategy without altaria would make sense to take out a winona for an ultra ball, but with your altaria added it would make sense to have the extra, so I'm just going to agree to disagree with you on that until someone else has other opinions on it.
My mistake about the Landorus, when it had said 'beatdown' on the front page I assumed it was the EX sorry.
My statement still stands about the electric types. I have not seen any manectric deck since before winter regionals. There are just too many fighting type decks in the format to run a sucessful Manectric EX archytype. I do think that you don't need to worry too much about that electric type or really any others right now as none of them can OHKO you too. The only one that can is a manectric EX and you have a spirit link tool attached, but thats leaving manectric at an easily KOable 170 hp.
I personally like the idea of a 4-3 line Ironman131 because it allows for multiple parts to be prized but still can usually start with Rayqauza and can get up the mega by turn 2 (kinda like Virizion Genesect actually
)Vom, I would like to point out that Lysandre would probably be played in the matchup at least once, probably 2-3 times. If they do kill one altaria, one part of the the other altaria will be prized/discarded for sure. Its kinda useless in the matchup tbh, Its different with Yvetal decks because they can't take the OHKO from megamanny, but mega Rayquaza can. If you were concerned about weakness, I would play a weakness policy (just 1) instead. Mega Manectric decks don't usually play megaphones because they play team flare tools, so if you mega evolve one turn while stalling with the landorus active, you should be in a good spot. And, because megamanny needs the spirit link, they will only be doing 220 damage, which means they will have to attack with something else or accept a 3HKO.
Also Vom, my strategy without altaria would make sense to take out a winona for an ultra ball, but with your altaria added it would make sense to have the extra, so I'm just going to agree to disagree with you on that until someone else has other opinions on it.
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Altaria / Landorus)
If you see a fully loaded Genesect-EX in the bench (with G-Booster or without it) and you can OHKO, you go for it, not for the Virizion.
In MegaMan's case, they won't go for Altaria/Swablu if they know you can OHKO their EX after they KO your Stage 1, even with another Manetric in the bench. Especially knowing M Rayquaza can be powered up real quick.
It's much like against Plasma, you kill the Tundurus and not their Deoxys.
Also, for what it's worth, chances are you get Altaria out before the Swablu is KOed thanks to Delta Evolution.
Elbow said:
If you see a fully loaded Genesect-EX in the bench (with G-Booster or without it) and you can OHKO, you go for it, not for the Virizion.
In MegaMan's case, they won't go for Altaria/Swablu if they know you can OHKO their EX after they KO your Stage 1, even with another Manetric in the bench. Especially knowing M Rayquaza can be powered up real quick.
It's much like against Plasma, you kill the Tundurus and not their Deoxys.
Also, for what it's worth, chances are you get Altaria out before the Swablu is KOed thanks to Delta Evolution.
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Altaria / Landorus)
Hi Elbow,
Thanks for the review. Now that the entire set has been revealed it is time to tweak the deck a little. Still not sure on Ninetales. The main reason is that Shaymin Ex is a needed liability in this deck. With Ninetales the deck has little means to take them off the board. If I would battle a Rayquaza deck with shaymin I would hunt the Shaymin instead of Rayquaza since it is much easier to knock them out fast and to trade better with the deck in terms of prize cards. If the deck would be able to return Shaymin to the hand when needed Ninetales would be much easier to include. I like the idea that the opponent could believe that discarding Skyfield would be a benefit, but it also allows me to discard Shaymin and retrive it with Lysandre's Last Resort and Ultra Ball to refill the bench. I even consider to replace Escape Rope with Sacred Ash.
I agree on the need to include more basic Pokémon. In fact I would like to fit in more basics in the list to have a stable count of twelve basic Pokémon. Will remove one basic energy for the 12th basic Pokémon. I also disagree on Winona. To me this card is akin to Korrina. It is the heart and sould of colorless decks and makes Rayquaza so much more consistent.
Vom already covered the discaussion on Manectric Ex and Landorus. At the moment I even consider to run an all colorless deck to benefit more from Altaria and Winona but not entire sure on it. I like Altaria in this deck since it has delta evolution and cancels weakness.
In your example you pointed out that Altaria can be a victim to Lysandre in the match. I feel that it is a much less viable target than Shaymin. For that reason I would like a means to recycle lost Shaymin and take them off the battlefield without the need to attack with them. If you replace altaria in your example with shaymin I could not aggree more and this is why I am reluctant to run Ninetales.
Hi Vom,
Thanks for the review. Based on Elbow's review and yours I decided to include a 12th basic Pokémon to fill the bench faster. still not sure on Ninetales for the reasons outlined above. I like the idea to recycle Pokémon from the discard and not have Shaymin stick on the bench once it has been played. I might need to tweak the deck a little to recover cards from the discard faster.
To Elow and Vom,
Thanks a lot for all your comments and assistance.
Hi Elbow,
Thanks for the review. Now that the entire set has been revealed it is time to tweak the deck a little. Still not sure on Ninetales. The main reason is that Shaymin Ex is a needed liability in this deck. With Ninetales the deck has little means to take them off the board. If I would battle a Rayquaza deck with shaymin I would hunt the Shaymin instead of Rayquaza since it is much easier to knock them out fast and to trade better with the deck in terms of prize cards. If the deck would be able to return Shaymin to the hand when needed Ninetales would be much easier to include. I like the idea that the opponent could believe that discarding Skyfield would be a benefit, but it also allows me to discard Shaymin and retrive it with Lysandre's Last Resort and Ultra Ball to refill the bench. I even consider to replace Escape Rope with Sacred Ash.
I agree on the need to include more basic Pokémon. In fact I would like to fit in more basics in the list to have a stable count of twelve basic Pokémon. Will remove one basic energy for the 12th basic Pokémon. I also disagree on Winona. To me this card is akin to Korrina. It is the heart and sould of colorless decks and makes Rayquaza so much more consistent.
Vom already covered the discaussion on Manectric Ex and Landorus. At the moment I even consider to run an all colorless deck to benefit more from Altaria and Winona but not entire sure on it. I like Altaria in this deck since it has delta evolution and cancels weakness.
In your example you pointed out that Altaria can be a victim to Lysandre in the match. I feel that it is a much less viable target than Shaymin. For that reason I would like a means to recycle lost Shaymin and take them off the battlefield without the need to attack with them. If you replace altaria in your example with shaymin I could not aggree more and this is why I am reluctant to run Ninetales.
Hi Vom,
Thanks for the review. Based on Elbow's review and yours I decided to include a 12th basic Pokémon to fill the bench faster. still not sure on Ninetales for the reasons outlined above. I like the idea to recycle Pokémon from the discard and not have Shaymin stick on the bench once it has been played. I might need to tweak the deck a little to recover cards from the discard faster.
To Elow and Vom,
Thanks a lot for all your comments and assistance.
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Altaria / Landorus)
I think you should add Mr. Mime PLF. Landorus EX is big right now and those Shaymin EXs are sitting targets.
I think you should add Mr. Mime PLF. Landorus EX is big right now and those Shaymin EXs are sitting targets.
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Altaria)
Hi Gengar master,
Included Mr. Mime in the updated list.
Hi Gengar master,
Included Mr. Mime in the updated list.
RE: Fallen Skies (M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX / Altaria)
Hi Elbow,
It is the colorless one from the new set. It is also not bad against Safe Guard Pokémon.
Hi Elbow,
It is the colorless one from the new set. It is also not bad against Safe Guard Pokémon.
Hi folks,
Revised the list after some matches.
Revised the list after some matches.
Hi 1Platinum,
Thanks for the review. M Rayquaza Ex is a decent counter to Seismitoad on his own since the first he can evolve turn one and does not need a spirit link in case this deck goes first. Not entire sure on Battle Compressor without Eggs and I am not a die hard fan of them. Will consider Jirachi since it can be helpfull to search out Lysandre's Last Resort when needed. What should be taken out for one of them?
Thanks for the review. M Rayquaza Ex is a decent counter to Seismitoad on his own since the first he can evolve turn one and does not need a spirit link in case this deck goes first. Not entire sure on Battle Compressor without Eggs and I am not a die hard fan of them. Will consider Jirachi since it can be helpfull to search out Lysandre's Last Resort when needed. What should be taken out for one of them?