Fighting of the Metagame - OU RMT

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Professor Palutena

The Queen
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A Quick Look
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*None of the art in this post was made by me*

Intro / Teambuilding Stuff
Building a team during a suspect testing period is hard. As the player, you need to adapt to sudden changes in the environment, even the ones you expect. This team was built around the middle of the Fifth Round of Suspect testing, as a backup in case I lost my Politoed to the Ubers. Once I posted by first team, A Taste of the Tropics, I’d felt this desire to build a team that didn’t need weather to succeed. But I was clueless as to which angle to approach. So I continued to play rain, using both of my rain teams to ladder. Rain offense got boring, and I longed to try something new. I built a sun team, but the team didn’t really go over well, so I went back to rain, yet I still had that desire to build an anti meta team.

One night I was on PO, on the PokeBeach server, and I ran into TDL. I asked him if he could tutor me in building a weather-less team. He said sure, and so I got my tutoring a few days later. While this isn’t the team that the two of us built, his knowledge he gave me undoubtedly helped to build this team, a team that managed to climb the ranks into the mid 1200s, which is foreign land for me.

October 9th was the day everything changed. With Excadrill and Thundurus banned, the team seemed to naturally perform better. The departure of Excadrill, a Pokémon who I didn’t expect to see banned, really made life easier for my team. As sand lost one of its key players, Rain teams surge in popularity, and this team has three Pokemon forming an anti-rain core; Jellicent, Virizion and Latias. Heatran and Quagsire also do a solid job at stopping Sun teams, and the team does pretty well against sand teams too.

After some testing, it really became apparent at what the team needed. While Skarmory could wall Landorus, stalling it out of PP was not a very appealing option. The bigger issue was Terrakion, who 2HKOed Skarmory with Close Combat, and is very hard to switch into. Gliscor switching with Skarmory was a tough decision, but considering that Terrakion is much more common than Scrafty and Toxicroak, it was a worthwhile decision.

The other problem Pokémon were Latias, Latios and Reuniclus. While Quagsire was an alright check to Reuniclus, it could’ve do much to the dragons. Switching Latias for Jirachi really helped the team counter the three Psychic-types, and with Fire Punch, Jirachi acts as a solid counter to SubDisable Gengar. I do lose a check to Rotom-W, but Virizion and Quagsire can handle the washing machine easily.

After a week of testing, Slowbro replaced Quagsire as the physical bulky water. The fighting resistance, and the larger defensive stats allow Slowbro to be more effective when it needs to wall. Regenerator is everything it needs to come in and take hits. As a bonus, its not an offensive slouch, as it can easily inflict plenty of damage off its 100 base Sp.Attack.

This team has been, by far, my most successful team, and because it’s so different than the metagame, I take a lot of pride with this team. Nearly every Pokémon can be handled in some way, and if I play smart, it’s pretty easy to win. While the team hasn't had too much experience in the sixth stage, all of the cool stuff catches on like a wildfire. So if something is good, it starts being good as soon as the ladder resets.

While the team name may look familiar to any of you who play Tales of Phantasia, this isn’t a themed team. I thought that it would make sense to call it such, because this is an anti-meta team.

In Depth Analysis
heatranf.png

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Calm
EVs: 244 HP/252 SDef/12 Spe
-Lava Plume
-Stealth Rock
-Roar
-Protect

Why Heatran?
Specially Defensive Heatran does an incredible job at being a brick wall against Sun teams, taking no damage from their Fire-type moves, and barely getting scratched by their Grass-type moves. In addition, with Dragonite, Salamence and Volcarona being very powerful threats, Heatran’s resistances to Fire-, Dragon- and Bug-type moves are all incredibly useful.

What Can Heatran Do?
With Dragonite and Volcarona being very powerful threats in the metagame, Stealth Rock is a must. It not only stops Multiscale from working, but it makes Volcarona very easy to deal with. On a defensive Pokémon, the ability to inflict status on the opponent is a huge boon. I wasn’t able to fit both Flamethrower and Will-o-Wisp on the same set, so Lava Plume is an acceptable compromise, with a 30% burn rate and a solid 80 base power. Roar accumulates Stealth Rock damage, and annoys set up sweepers. It’s a flexible move, as worn down opponents are easier for Virizion and Jirachi to take down. Protect is for some more defensive play, such as scouting for Earthquake, or to just let burn damage kill off the Pokémon.

How Does The Team Support Heatran?
Heatran’s counters are Bulky Water types, as well as Latias and Latios. Virizion loves coming in on the Bulky Waters and setting up on them. Jellicent can also absorb a Scald, and Taunt the Politoed, Vaporeon or Jellicent, preventing them from inflicting status on my Jellicent. Against Latias and Latios, Jirachi can come in and slowly kill them off with paraflinch, while resisting their STABs and taking little damage from unboosted attacks.

jellicent.png

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Nature: Bold
EVs: 208 HP/216 Def/84 Spe
-Scald
-Will-O-Wisp
-Recover
-Taunt

Why This Jellicent?
With Thundurus gone, Jellicent has become a wonderful check to Rain teams, absorbing their Water-type attacks like nothing. As the only Bulky Water with Taunt, Jellicent uses it phenomenally. Scald and Will-O-Wisp, while seemingly redundant, make Jellicent an all around wall, taking damage from burnt opponents comfortably (baring Guts). The EV spread looks very different then what you could expect, but it’s very effective. 84 Speed EVs outspeeds standard Defensive Politoed by a point. Jellicent can come in on the expected Scald, nullify it, and then Taunt the Politoed, forcing it to switch out, and letting me burn the switch in, which is usually a physical Pokémon. Even without the maximum HP, Jellicent is still a solid wall.

What Can Jellicent Do?
Scald is one of the most useful moves introduced in the generation, right up there with Shell Smash and Quiver Dance. The burn rate compliments a wide range of Pokémon, and makes threats like Terrakion and Landorus much easier for the team to handle. Because of this, Jellicent could be considered the glue of the team, as its burns make life much easier for the rest of the team. Will-O-Wisp is for times when I don’t want to risk a 30% burn chance, and go for a 75% chance at doing so, mostly in those clutch situations against Tyranitar. Once burnt Jellicent can comfortably take Crunches from Mixed Tyranitar comfortably, doing only about 40% max. On a defensive Pokémon, having an instant 50% recovery move is incredible, as it ensures that they stay around for a while. Taunt is what makes Jellicent incredible at slowing down Rain stall teams, although Tentacruel will stick up Toxic Spikes eventually. The combination of Will-O-Wisp, Recover and Taunt make Jellicent unique and irreplaceable for the team.

How Does The Team Support Jellicent?
While Jellicent can comfortably stand in front of many Pokémon, two things trouble it; Rotom-W and Grass-types. Virizion easily take on Rotom-W, as it can sponge Hidden Power Ice well, despite it being super effective. Heatran loves the bulky Grass types, especially Ferrothorn and Celebi (It’s not so good at taking Virizion down, due to the Fighting-type STAB Virizion gets).

slowbro.png

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SAtk
IVs: 29 Speed
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Toxic
-Slack Off

Why Slowbro?
While Quagsire was a solid check to Landorus and Excadrill, its stats hindered its walling ability. Slowbro boasts higher defense than Quagsire, as well as more offensive potential. While it does lack Unaware, Slowbro's bulk can let it take boosted attacks comfortably. Regenerator is the icing on the cake, as Slowbro can come in and out several times because of the health gained. In addition, the combination of Slowbro and Gliscor ensures that Terrakion will never sweep my team.

What Can Slowbro Do?
Slowbro is, in a nutshell, a bulky water. It sits there and takes hits well. The Psychic-type brings a valuable resistance to Fighting, and the combination of the Relaxed nature and 29 speed IVs ensures that all Conkeldurr outpace Slowbro, meaning that Payback doesn't get boosted. Scald appears again, as the most obnoxious move in the game. A burn ensures that Slowbro can take even more physical hits. Toxic wears down threats, putting them on an 8 turn timer. Sometimes, Toxic Stalling is the most effective way to eliminate a key opponent, like Dragonite. Ice Beam is for a few things, like OHKOing Landorus, as well as OHKOing Dragonite after Stealth Rock or Toxic (Multiscale is broken). Its also for Haxorus, as Slowbro is the best I have for the dragon. Recovery moves are a huge benefit for any defensive Pokemon, so Slack Off appears to enhance Slowbro's ability to attack and annoy.

How Does The Team Support Quagsire?
Bulky Grass types annoy Slowbro. Celebi can use the switch to set up Nasty Plot. Heatran can take any Celebi that lacks Earth Power, while Virizion takes the ones that lack Hidden Power Fire. Blissey and Chansey also troubles Slowbro. Fortunately, Jellicent can come in on the Seismic Toss, or Gliscor can come in on the Toxic. Both can Taunt it and render them useless. Toxic in general annoys Slowbro, but Gliscor loves coming on Toxic. Jirachi and Heatran are both immune to Toxic as well.

virizion.png

Virizion @ Lum Berry
Ability: Justified
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4HP
-Swords Dance
-Leaf Blade
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge

Why Virizion?
Virizion is the bane of the popular Rain stall playstyle, especially when using Swords Dance. Due to the rarity of the set, it catches many people off guard when they bring in their Blissey to sponge the Calm Mind. Virizion is tailor-maid to take down the two keystones of rain teams – Politoed and Ferrothorn. Swords Dance Virizion is a very effective set, and is usually the finisher of the team.

What Can Virizion Do?
Virizion is the most reliable form of offense my team has. Virizion sets up incredibly quickly, and is very destructive once it does. The Lum Berry protects Virizion from a random Scald burn or some Jirachi hax, both of which cripple it from sweeping. Swords Dance doubles Virizion’s modest attack and turns it into a monster. Leaf Blade and Close Combat are the STAB moves of choice, both of which make weather teams scared. Stone Edge allows Virizion to act as a check to unboosted Volcarona, providing that it doesn’t miss. It also serves well against Gyarados and Salamence, two rare, but powerful, Pokémon. I prioritized maximum speed, assuring that, at worst, I die with opposing Terrakion, though I don’t think they would stay in.

How Does The Team Support Virizion?
Swords Dance Virizion has a lot of problems getting past Gliscor and Skarmory. Jellicent excels in taking them both down, especially the Armour Bird. Virizion’s general checks include the bulky Psychics: Latias, Latios and Reuniclus. Jirachi is the team’s best shot at taking them down, which it does very well. Jellicent’s Dark-type weakness gives Virizion a chance to come in and snag an attack boost, which can be quickly compounded by a Swords Dance, making Virizion even stronger.

gliscore.png

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Nature: Impish
EVs: 248 HP/172 Def/88 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Protect
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang

Why Gliscor?
Even though Excadrill has been banned, Gliscor is still a solid Pokémon. Its typing gives it a resistance to Fighting-type moves, which is a huge boon, due to the multitude of Fighting types in the metagame right now (Conkeldurr, Scrafty, Virizion, Terrakion, Toxicroak and Mienshao come to mind). Gliscor is very effective at shutting stall teams down, due to its high speed and access to Taunt. The most important role that Gliscor brings to the team is that it checks Terrakion, a Pokémon that boasts phenomenal two move coverage, and just happens to have a dislike for Gliscor.

What Can Gliscor Do?
Gliscor’s role is to act as a stop against the common fighting types in the metagame, especially Terrakion, who I otherwise lack a check for. Swords Dance means that Gliscor is no offensive slouch, even though its attack is rather modest due to no investment. As Gliscor lacks recovery outside of Poison Heal, it needs a way to keep healthy. Protect is a wonderful option for extending Gliscor's life, as it guarantees that Gliscor receives 12.5% of its health each turn. Earthquake is the all important STAB move, and it can really dish out some powerful damage after a Swords Dance boost or two. Ice Fang is mostly filler for against other Gliscors or for the event where I predict a Dragonite switch in. Poison Heal keeps Gliscor going for the whole game, as the 12% recovery makes it hard to kill. It also lets Gliscor function as a status absorber, as well as a solid counter to Breloom.

How Does The Team Support Gliscor?
While Gliscor does a good job at taking physical attacks, it’s really weak on the special side. Jellicent can come in on the expected Water- or Ice-type move with impunity, and either burn or taunt the Pokémon. Jirachi also boasts solid synergy with Gliscor, as it can take those powerful Dragon-type attacks and respond with a myriad of status conditions.

jirachi.png

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP/228 SDef/28 Spe
-Wish
-Iron Head
-Body Slam
-Fire Punch

Why Jirachi?
Jirachi puts the team together by providing Wish support, as well as being one of the best checks to the bulky Psychic-types – Latias, Latios and Reuniclus. Despite its lack of offense, Jirachi has the potential to slowly wreck opposing teams, if only due to their own lack of luck. Due to its bulk and recovery move, Jirachi can be a pain to take down, especially with Iron Head and Body Slam backing it up.

What Can Jirachi Do?
Even though Jirachi’s offenses are lacklustre, it’s capable of defeating key threats in the opposition, like Latios. Once the opponent has been paralyzed, they are much easier for the team to deal with. Jirachi can even spam Iron Head to defeat those threats. Body Slam and Iron Head, when combined with Serene Grace, form an incredibly annoying combination. Access to Wish, and Jirachi’s incredibly resiliency only compounds Jirachi’s survivability. Fire Punch isn’t standard, but I’m really enjoying it. With it, Jirachi is a solid check to any Gengar variant, especially the SubDisable ones, as I have two moves that can damage it. I know that it might be weird to not see Protect, but with Iron Head and Body Slam, the opponent only has a 15% chance of attacking, so I get the wish granted 85% of the time, which is a very good chance.

How Does The Team Support Jirachi?
Fast Ground-type Pokémon are a problem for Jirachi, as they pack that Earthquake attack that makes it hard for Jirachi to survive. Gliscor can come in on said Earthquake, though the response afterwards usually varies depending on the Pokémon. Speaking of Gliscor, it is a large problem for Jirachi, because it can’t be paralyzed once Poison Heal activates. Jellicent handles Gliscor very well, as it can shrug off unboosted Earthquakes. If worse comes to worse, I can use my own Gliscor, win the speed tie, and Ice Fang it.

Threats
After all the hard work that went into building this team, it’s rewarding to know that there are few Pokémon that trouble it. Choice Band Pokémon are at the top of the list. I don’t have a Pokemon that can tank Outrages, so a Choice Band Dragonite or Haxorus can cause problems, although Jellicent can survive and hopefully burn them (My spread isn’t OHKOed by Adamant CB Haxorus Outrage, doing 99.24% max). Choice Band Terrakion is another problem is Gliscor is weakened, but its manageable if Gliscor can take hits.

Closing and Credits
Thanks to the long list of people who gave me pointers and advice on the team, especially TheDarkLucario, for teaching the fundamentals of building a weather-less team, ShadowLugia, for sitting on Skype for hours listening to me asking “Hey, what do you think of this?”, and The Power of Three, for writing that awesome bulky offense guide that was very helpful in the teambuilding process.

As for the artwork, the cool sprites at the top are by Shouty-Fool. The following artists on DeviantArt drew the pictures of the six Pokémon: Sailor-Clef (Heatran, Jellicent), Nintendo-jr (Quagsire), melodys-TARDIS (Virizion), blood dragonx (Gliscor) and crayon-chewer (Jirachi).
 
It must've been an exporting error. Regardless, thanks. I fixed it.

I'm thinking about trying Slowbro over Quagsire. What do you guys think of that idea?
 
Hahaha wow. This is like the SAME EXACT TEAM that I have just built over the last few days. The only difference is that I had Ferrothorn instead of Jellicent.
So are you are testing Slowbro? Because he works good too, but I find myself missing the Thunder resist. I guess you could switch to Heatran instead.
 
Yeah, Slowbro will be taking Quagsire's spot. It does open the team up a little bit to Landorus, but Virizion is capable of outrunning it and wounding it with Leaf Blade.

Gimme some time to update this, and keep the suggestions coming.
 
Really good team again, Bippa. Looks very solid, and I don't have quarrels with many of your choices. Here's what I've decided on:

- Two taunters really aren't necessary, imo. Replacing Taunt with Protect/Substitute on Gliscor will allow him to stall out a couple of smaller threats, and can even sweep under a predicted sub.
- In the Rain, Starmie and Tentacruel can give you a big problem. Hydro Pumps can really do a number on 2/3 or your team, and with prediction, Starmie can hit Virizion with an Ice Beam or Jellicent with a Tbolt. Jellicent is invaluable here, so make sure you play her conservatively.
- I also see a problem with Nasty Plot Celebi. The combination of Giga Drain and HP Fire hurts a couple of your team member, with Heatran being the only one to completely wall it, and even then, some Celebi run Earth Power.
- So to combat these threats, I suggest Bulky (Or Possibly Offensive) Calm Mind Reuniclus. His stellar defenses and reasonable recover (along with immunity to toxic) would make him an invaluable member to your team. I would certainly post an example set, if you'd like. Although, the only replacements I could see for it are Jirachi and Quagsire, with Jirachi being the most prominent.

Make sure to comment on what you think of these edits, I appreciate it. Again, great team, you've really come a long way in competitive battling. Thanks.
 
You've got me interested with Reuniclus. I guess if Latias and Latios are problematic, I could run Psyshock. What set do you have SL?
 
Two sets. One bulky, one more offensively inclined. Here's the bulkier version:

Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
Magic Guard Ability
EV's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Calm mind
- Recover

This set seems to be a good position on your team. CM and Recovering make him very hard to kill, and you have un-resisted coverage with Psyshock and FB. Magic Guard also has the benefit of nulling Toxic. Here's the more offensive set.

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Modest/Quiet Nature
Magic Guard Ability
EV's: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SpA
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind

Here you have a set that can reasonably counter both of the threats I mentioned earlier. It doesn't have as much survivability, but it hits extremely hard. Take either of these into consideration over Quagsire or Jirachi.
 
I tested bulky Reuniclus over Jirachi, and it was rather mediocre. It couldn't come in on the rain attacks like I wanted it to (Maybe that's not how I'm supposed to play it though :/). In addition, Reuniclus left me more open to Tyranitar and Scrafty. To combat Celebi, do you think Scizor would work in Jirachi's place?

However, Protect on Gliscor has been working phenomenally. As he lacks a solid recovery move, gaining a free 12.5% in a turn is wonderful, and I will be using Protect on Gliscor now.
 
A really nice team. not much I can say that hasn't been said before. Maybe change Wish for Substitute on Jirachi but you probably like the Wish support it provides to the rest of the team. And maybe go mixed with Virizion and change the Stone Edge for HP Ice for Gliscor and dragons.
 
How does this team preform against Rain teams? Can Heatran stand up to a Rain boosted Surf from Politoed? Can Jirachi handle Sub-Punch Breloom? Can Gliscor handle a Choice Specs boosted Hurricane from Tornadus? Can Slowbro servive a Life Orb boosted Thunder from Gengar?

I can see where your teams strength is but how does handle against Rain? Alot of pokemon can handle most teams when they are in Rain teams. Tornadus and Magnezone both beniffit thanks to there strongest attacks go to 100% accuracy.
 
Bippa's team looks very good against rain teams. Its perfectly fine to have 1-2 weaknesses to water on a team so long as you have resistances/immunities. Bippa's team has 2 weaknesses to water, 2 resistances to it, and 1 immunity. That's pretty good and means rain-boosted water attacks can be taken throughout the entire match. Gliscor handles SubPunch Breloom perfectly, and I don't know anyone who uses Specs Hurricane, but that's not much problem either because Jirachi handles that. Next, nobody use Gengar on rain teams, and if they did its better off without Thunder since its got 4 moveslot syndrome anyway regardless of being on a rain team. Even if it did, Gliscor is able to take electric attacks and Virizion can take hits from Gengar in general. This is an excellently constructed team imo and it has no apparent troubles with rain at all as far as I can see.
 
AlphaNinja said:
How does this team preform against Rain teams? Can Heatran stand up to a Rain boosted Surf from Politoed? Can Jirachi handle Sub-Punch Breloom? Can Gliscor handle a Choice Specs boosted Hurricane from Tornadus? Can Slowbro servive a Life Orb boosted Thunder from Gengar?

I can see where your teams strength is but how does handle against Rain? Alot of pokemon can handle most teams when they are in Rain teams. Tornadus and Magnezone both beniffit thanks to there strongest attacks go to 100% accuracy.

I guess I'll be the first one to speak up about you:

... You need to stop posting here, you really have no idea what you're talking about.

-- -- -- -- -- --

First of all, why would Heatran need to take a water attack in the first place? That is what synergy is for, so other teammates take hits for other teammates. This applies to your other questions as well. There is no reason any of Bippa's Pokemon would stay in on the ones you mentioned, possibly bar Jirachi on Breloom if Jirachi had Fire/Ice Punch.

DarkVoid, Gengar does indeed learn Thunder, you are correct about its rarity on Rain teams, though. However, many people do, in fact, use Specs Tornadus.
 
You do realize that even with the switch Heatran can be dealt with later and Specs Tornadus can take on Verizion with Hurricane. Gengar can also deal with Heatran if Politoed doesn't get the chance to so. Alot of the team can be checked by rivals and even the rivals can be checked. But one mistake and thats it.
 
AlphaNinja said:
You do realize that even with the switch Heatran can be dealt with later

You do realize that the same can be said for nearly every other Pokemon that switches out, so that is not a valid reason. Pokemon cannot defend against every kind of attack, that is why we have teammates. One teammate eliminates opposing Pokémon that pose a threat to another teammate, or take hits for that teammate on the switch, etc.

and Specs Tornadus can take on Verizion with Hurricane

Did you figure that all out on your own? Lol, of course it can. Once again, that is why we have teammates that resist weaknesses of other teammates. Heatran or Jirachi can switch in on Specs Hurricane with no worries.

Gengar can also deal with Heatran if Politoed doesn't get the chance to so.

Once again, Heatran can simply switch out of Gengar.

Alot of the team can be checked by rivals and even the rivals can be checked. But one mistake and thats it.

What are you even talking about...
 
AlphaNinja said:
You do realize that even with the switch Heatran can be dealt with later and Specs Tornadus can take on Verizion with Hurricane. Gengar can also deal with Heatran if Politoed doesn't get the chance to so. Alot of the team can be checked by rivals and even the rivals can be checked. But one mistake and thats it.

1) What are rivals.
2) *removed* - TDL
 
AlphaNinja said:
You do realize that even with the switch Heatran can be dealt with later and Specs Tornadus can take on Verizion with Hurricane. Gengar can also deal with Heatran if Politoed doesn't get the chance to so. Alot of the team can be checked by rivals and even the rivals can be checked. But one mistake and thats it.

...I don't see any advice given out here on how Bippa should change his team.

SPM3 said:
You do realize that the same can be said for nearly every other Pokemon that switches out, so that is not a valid reason. Pokemon cannot defend against every kind of attack, that is why we have teammates. One teammate eliminates opposing Pokémon that pose a threat to another teammate, or take hits for that teammate on the switch, etc.

Did you figure that all out on your own? Lol, of course it can. Once again, that is why we have teammates that resist weaknesses of other teammates. Heatran or Jirachi can switch in on Specs Hurricane with no worries.


Once again, Heatran can simply switch out of Gengar.

What are you even talking about...

Nor do I see any here...

Hatman said:
1) What are rivals.
2) *removed* - TDL

And finally, not here. Unless TDL decided to troll and remove the competitive advice that Hatman posted, which seems unlikely.

Remember children, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Likewise, if you don't have any useful advice to post, don't post anything at all. Report the 1 bad post, and let the mods deal with it. Next time, the warnings will get more severe.
 
Er, you can try Calm Mind Reuniclus over Slowbro. Trust me. Never. Ever. Understimate a Reuniclus.
 
Reuniclus and Slowbro have two completely different functions. While Reuniclus is an offensive Pokemon that is tough to stop, Slowbro is a bulky Pokemon that is insurance against Terrakion and Landorus.
 
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