Discussion Garbador's impact on the meta

[mrfr1day]

If there is a thread on this already then by all means delete this one.

This card is nuts. Unless you want your deck to under perform you NEED items in your deck. You can manage Trevenant. You cannot manage Garbador unless you limit your deck by not playing items. Course I can completely miss something. Would love to hear your Pros/Cons to Garbador's impact on the meta.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Garbodor's impact on the game is an attempt to slow the game down by making players think about the common core of the game. Decks need items to function, sure but they don't need 40 and if you wish to run a turbo deck, which most players are playing, then you lose to this deck. It was the same way with Safeguard Suicune and the events it was running because players ran EX only decks. You need to adapt to the times.

 

[optimal_max]

Garbador is a card to be reckoned with. I have lost multiple matches to him already. But what are you gonna do? If you don't run item cards, your deck is too slow and you lose. If you do run item cards, Garb smacks you down with one energy, especially late in the game w/12+ item cards in the discard pile and no helpful way to get them out of there. I guess Glaceon EX could be useful with Crystal Ray.

 

[Fayld]

Garbador is a card to be reckoned with. I have lost multiple matches to him already. But what are you gonna do? If you don't run item cards, your deck is too slow and you lose. If you do run item cards, Garb smacks you down with one energy, especially late in the game w/12+ item cards in the discard pile and no helpful way to get them out of there. I guess Glaceon EX could be useful with Crystal Ray.

I have been running Turbo Lapras lately and Glaceon EX can absolutely own that match up. I have played against several variants of this deck and am roughly 50/50. The nasty variant is the Trevenant / Trashalanche version because it also hits Lapras for weakness, but even in that one they have to find a way to get around Glaceon so the match is doable. Overall, the match up is manageable for Turbo Lapras. I don't think it will be as easily managed with other decks though.

If I had to put a wager out though, I would be that Glaceon EX starts to get teched into decks where it can on a regular basis going forward. I expect to see it in Rainbow Deciplume, Mega Ray, Quad Lapras, Turbo Lapras (already had it), Water Toolbox, etc. There are probably going to be a few more. Long story short though, I think Glaceon EX is a must tech if it can be teched.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

I'm expecting decks may change slightly given the impact Garbodor decks might have in my area.

After playing my first match against a Garbodor deck player (he ran Trevenant-Garbodor-Vileplume) yesterday, I noticed that if I went first and HIT my Max Elixirs (I ran unchanged Volcanion and Darkrai-Yveltal decks), my opponent could not really recover from my early, follow-on 1HKOs of his main attackers, Vileplume and/or Garbodor (Garbotoxin). On the other hand, when he did setup Vileplume T1 as well as his Garbodor (Garbotoxin), my setup was quite slow. These games were, as you might suspect, became highly dependent upon the Supporters I could leverage. After the match, I did decide that a few changes will be made in anticipation that the Garbodor deck variants will become popular.

I'm expecting that my current card counts of the following cards may be reduced:

• Trainer's Mail
• Ultra Ball
• VS Seeker

No surprise... The actual count per deck though most likely will vary.

 

[Fayld]

I'm expecting decks may change slightly given the impact Garbodor decks might have in my area.

After playing my first match against a Garbodor deck player (he ran Trevenant-Garbodor-Vileplume) yesterday, I noticed that if I went first and HIT my Max Elixirs (I ran unchanged Volcanion and Darkrai-Yveltal decks), my opponent could not really recover from my early, follow-on 1HKOs of his main attackers, Vileplume and/or Garbodor (Garbotoxin). On the other hand, when he did setup Vileplume T1 as well as his Garbodor (Garbotoxin), my setup was quite slow. These games were, as you might suspect, became highly dependent upon the Supporters I could leverage. After the match, I did decide that a few changes will be made in anticipation that the Garbodor deck variants will become popular.

I'm expecting that my current card counts of the following cards may be reduced:

• Trainer's Mail
• Ultra Ball
• VS Seeker

No surprise... The actual count per deck though most likely will vary.

That's the thing though. If you reduce those counts for 1 match up, you run into issues with other decks that didn't reduce for that match up. There was another post where this was discussed ad nauseam and I think it will boil down to the amount that Trashalanche gets played. It is a powerful card that I have seen used with Trevenant, Drampa GX, Tauros GX, and just straight up Tapu Lele GX and all of the variants are pretty strong. Interestingly enough, I haven't seen it in M Mewtwo and that is the most obvious pairing IMO because you either use the items to get set up, or M Mewtwo dismantles you.

But yeah, I am with you on the one respect though. If I hit the right cards early, I don't struggle much with the deck. If I don't, life becomes infinitely more difficult.

 

[Draskk]

I'm 50/50 against Garb, one match I ran out of resources and I lost, next they ran out of resources and lost. I just played like it was a normal game cause I play Vespiquen and they'll get one shotted anyways so I didnt care. However, had I been playing Turbo Dark or something that doesn't have the trades that Vespiquen does, I would've lost badly. So, all in all, Garb isnt a HUGE deal, but it is definitely a good card that will have an impact. Turbo decks won't see any play if Garb becomes a big thing, which, imo, is good. I like it.

 

[Serperior]

No one's cutting the number of Ultra Ball or VS Seeker because of Garbodor, consistency is simply too important. The trash heap might change the way players burn through their resources or opt to N over Sycamore their hand, but I anticipate that there will be adjustments to playstyle than actual deckbuilding.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

That's the thing though. If you reduce those counts for 1 match up, you run into issues with other decks that didn't reduce for that match up.

What most interest me if my deck's (which one perhaps too) Item reduction can be offset efficiently and effectively by mitigating the risk of a potentially slow start with other cards... Lots of testing yet to be done.

 

[Fayld]

What most interest me if my deck's (which one perhaps too) Item reduction can be offset efficiently and effectively by mitigating the risk of a potentially slow start with other cards... Lots of testing yet to be done.

Yeah. It has been interesting how effective Deciplume can be while running *only* 15-17 item cards. Granted, part of what makes it effective is that your opponent can't be effective, so I would be interested to see how your testing goes while running something like 3 Lysandre instead of the typical 2, etc.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Yeah. It has been interesting how effective Deciplume can be while running *only* 15-17 item cards. Granted, part of what makes it effective is that your opponent can't be effective, so I would be interested to see how your testing goes while running something like 3 Lysandre instead of the typical 2, etc.

Ok. I will share my testing results which I should have some initial information by the end of this week.

 

[uncleyuri]

Over time players will manage their items better. You're already seeing a lot more of cards like Pokémon fan club, Wally, and even the new stadium brooklet hill to get out Pokémon as opposed to using items. You'll probably see a decline in trainer's mail and maybe more use of N or Lillie. You're going to have to use items and discard items there is no getting around that, but you'll just have to be very careful about it. I personally don't like it. I feel like it takes away from the game. Why give all these item cards if you can't use them? Its likely not going away anytime soon tho.

 

[21times]

So far I am 3-1 against Garbodor GUR. My Garb Tauros deck is actually a somewhat disappointing 10-6 overall.

Garb is beatable. It's not Night March level... at least not yet. I'm guessing someone will come up with a twist that will take it to that level, but right now it's not an autoloss.

Except for Psychic decks. Sorry M Mewtwo, you can go off to the same retirement home Greninja's staying in.

As for not playing items, I don't even think about it. If he one shots me, he one shots me. Hopefully, I can one shot him back, he does only have 120 HP. And if there's a Garb prized or he can't get another one set up, I think I'll be able to outlast him. It's not like Greninja with Splash energy, where he just keeps coming back, time after time after time.

 

[NinJamezor]

At my local league, A M-Ray deck went against Garb and won, playing only 4 items. Garb can be easy to play around.

 

[Nyora]

Garb by itself is pretty... trash if you'll excuse the pun. However, in decks that already play Garb like Yveltal and Mewtwo, it can be an extremely helpful card! Garb will 99% of the time be able to OHKO Mega Mewtwo or other Psychic-weak mons easily, OHKO other things, is a great backup attacker, and only costs one prize! I think it will be very useful in decks that already play it

 

[Fayld]

Except for Psychic decks. Sorry M Mewtwo, you can go off to the same retirement home Greninja's staying in.

Oh, I think you have this WAAAAAY wrong. M Mewtwo isn't going to retire. M Mewtwo is going to switch Garbs and dominate. I have a M Mewtwo deck with Trashalanche Garb in it and that deck wrecks face. Everyone talks about needing a partner to force your opponent to use items to set up. I have seen Tauros. I have seen Drampa. I have seen Lele. What I haven't seen is M Mewtwo (except my list) which I think is odd. M Mewtwo is the ultimate up front hammer that forces your opponent to play the items to beat it. You don't play items, M Mewtwo wrecks your face. You do play items, Trashalanche wrecks your face. Having played this deck a couple times (including against decks that are *not* heavily item reliant like Quad Lapras), I think this deck is going to be a nightmare match up. The Garbodor / Wobbuffet variant of this deck pretty easily outclasses the Espeon GX variant.

I could pretty easily see your point about the mirror though. Garb is going to be rough for M Mewtwo and there are no ifs, ands, or buts about that LOL! But virtually every deck has *that* deck that hits it for weakness and is the rock to its scissor. Even Deciplume has started to show cracks to Quad Lapras and now Quad Wobbuffet.

 

[Draskk]

Oh, I think you have this WAAAAAY wrong. M Mewtwo isn't going to retire. M Mewtwo is going to switch Garbs and dominate. I have a M Mewtwo deck with Trashalanche Garb in it and that deck wrecks face. Everyone talks about needing a partner to force your opponent to use items to set up. I have seen Tauros. I have seen Drampa. I have seen Lele. What I haven't seen is M Mewtwo (except my list) which I think is odd. M Mewtwo is the ultimate up front hammer that forces your opponent to play the items to beat it. You don't play items, M Mewtwo wrecks your face. You do play items, Trashalanche wrecks your face. Having played this deck a couple times (including against decks that are *not* heavily item reliant like Quad Lapras), I think this deck is going to be a nightmare match up. The Garbodor / Wobbuffet variant of this deck pretty easily outclasses the Espeon GX variant.

I could pretty easily see your point about the mirror though. Garb is going to be rough for M Mewtwo and there are no ifs, ands, or buts about that LOL! But virtually every deck has *that* deck that hits it for weakness and is the rock to its scissor. Even Deciplume has started to show cracks to Quad Lapras and now Quad Wobbuffet.

Except my Vespiquen deck which doesn't care because it gets oneshotted anyways

 

[Fayld]

Except my Vespiquen deck which doesn't care because it gets oneshotted anyways

Yeah. Vespiquen trades with it pretty well. I would think the only real issue Vespiquen would have is getting the energy consistently enough (and if they start teching in Oricorio).

 

[Draskk]

Yeah. Vespiquen trades with it pretty well. I would think the only real issue Vespiquen would have is getting the energy consistently enough (and if they start teching in Oricorio).

Yeah the DCE is actually how I lost the first time. Also, Oricorio is mitigated by the Guardians Rising Machoke, so I decided to run that as a tech for techs lol. It's been pretty clutch, watching an Alolan Ninetales player waste their attack on a benched Combee is pretty fun :3 Another idea I had is Vespiquen with the new Garb, pretty similar to your Mewtwo/Trashalanche deck in that weather you play items or not you get rekt. I call it Beevalanche xD. I still need to try that, I did my Golisopod/Vespiquen deck first, and now I have no packs in TCGO lol.

 

[Fayld]

Yeah the DCE is actually how I lost the first time. Also, Oricorio is mitigated by the Guardians Rising Machoke, so I decided to run that as a tech for techs lol. It's been pretty clutch, watching an Alolan Ninetales player waste their attack on a benched Combee is pretty fun :3 Another idea I had is Vespiquen with the new Garb, pretty similar to your Mewtwo/Trashalanche deck in that weather you play items or not you get rekt. I call it Beevalanche xD. I still need to try that, I did my Golisopod/Vespiquen deck first, and now I have no packs in TCGO lol.

Beevalanche sounds fun actually! I might build it to kick around. I bet it is more consistent than the Trevenant / Garbodor decks I have seen because the Bees are just generally more consistent.