RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
Dark Void said:
Garbodor / Big Basics
- Thread starter Blah
- Start date
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
Alright let's just say that you get type weakness. IF you're in the advantage, you're dealing a max of +80 damage with 4 plus powers. With Htl + virbank you deal a min. of 120 damage (assuming they switch or retreat out of poison) but they may not which opens up the potential for lasers to be that much more than plus powers. I mean the numbers are there, I don't know why you would play plus powers (inconsistent) over lasers (consistent). Not to mention the 25% chance that your opponent doesn't get to attack next turn.
TuxedoBlack said:
Alright let's just say that you get type weakness. IF you're in the advantage, you're dealing a max of +80 damage with 4 plus powers. With Htl + virbank you deal a min. of 120 damage (assuming they switch or retreat out of poison) but they may not which opens up the potential for lasers to be that much more than plus powers. I mean the numbers are there, I don't know why you would play plus powers (inconsistent) over lasers (consistent). Not to mention the 25% chance that your opponent doesn't get to attack next turn.
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
The only reason to play Pluspowers is so you can stack them when you're hitting for weakness. Too situational for me to see the advantage of. Not to mention the insane advantages of playing Laser. You don't need to attack for the damage to go through, you can put your opponent to sleep, and they take a stupidly high amount of damage if they can't switch out. You trade all of these game-changing advantages for the chance to do a measly extra 10 damage, and only if you're in the correct situation to do so (not to mention you need to burn extra Pluspowers to get that damage). Does t seem worth it at all.
The only reason to play Pluspowers is so you can stack them when you're hitting for weakness. Too situational for me to see the advantage of. Not to mention the insane advantages of playing Laser. You don't need to attack for the damage to go through, you can put your opponent to sleep, and they take a stupidly high amount of damage if they can't switch out. You trade all of these game-changing advantages for the chance to do a measly extra 10 damage, and only if you're in the correct situation to do so (not to mention you need to burn extra Pluspowers to get that damage). Does t seem worth it at all.
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
HtLs are most effective when a VCG is in play. I don't assume a VCG will be, at least not for more than 1 turn. Even if a VCG is/does remain in play, chances are (high, IMHO) that the poisoned (and possibly asleep) defending Poké will be benched (via Switch or Rush In) - a 25% chance is just too low odds for me. I do agree that HtLs provide certain advantages (1/3 dmage counter drop, Sleep, etc.) over PPs, but HtLs are not any more "consistent" than PPs. The coin flipping aspect of HtLs alone nullifies "consistency."
The plan is simply to intentionally KO certain Poké at certain times during games with the help of PPs.Aggressiv said:
HtLs are most effective when a VCG is in play. I don't assume a VCG will be, at least not for more than 1 turn. Even if a VCG is/does remain in play, chances are (high, IMHO) that the poisoned (and possibly asleep) defending Poké will be benched (via Switch or Rush In) - a 25% chance is just too low odds for me. I do agree that HtLs provide certain advantages (1/3 dmage counter drop, Sleep, etc.) over PPs, but HtLs are not any more "consistent" than PPs. The coin flipping aspect of HtLs alone nullifies "consistency."
Yes, and in those particular situations, I'm going for specific KOs that I would not be able to do in that 1 turn with a HtL-VCG combo.Blah said:
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
This is totally wrong. You don't play HTL for the sleep. If you did, then the coin flip would make it inconsistent. However, you play HTL for the poison, which is guaranteed, and therefore consistent. If there was a card that read, "Win the game. Flip a coin. If the coin is heads, your opponent gets you a soda." It would consistently win the game. It just wouldn't consistently get you a soda, but if you're playing the card to win and not for the soda, then its very consistent.
TuxedoBlack said:
This is totally wrong. You don't play HTL for the sleep. If you did, then the coin flip would make it inconsistent. However, you play HTL for the poison, which is guaranteed, and therefore consistent. If there was a card that read, "Win the game. Flip a coin. If the coin is heads, your opponent gets you a soda." It would consistently win the game. It just wouldn't consistently get you a soda, but if you're playing the card to win and not for the soda, then its very consistent.
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
This deck should NOT be tier 2, it should move up to at least Tier 1.5. Why would you put Garbodor below Rayquaza? That makes absolutely no sense I am sorry.
This deck should NOT be tier 2, it should move up to at least Tier 1.5. Why would you put Garbodor below Rayquaza? That makes absolutely no sense I am sorry.
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
It wasn't except in the straight sableye version.
the overall deck will be mostly unaffected. the loss of cobalion NVI could do some damage to some varients, including the one with cobalion ex.
SheNinja said:
It wasn't except in the straight sableye version.
the overall deck will be mostly unaffected. the loss of cobalion NVI could do some damage to some varients, including the one with cobalion ex.
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
This deck will not be affected by the rotation. From the new set, we get new tools to use for Garbodor, like Silver Mirror and Reversal Trigger. The only bad thing for this deck is the increased use of Tool Scrapper because of these new tools (and Silver Bangle, G-Booster of course). Maybe all decks after the release of Plasma Blast will play 2 Tool Scrappers (1 for sure).
Wrynku said:
This deck will not be affected by the rotation. From the new set, we get new tools to use for Garbodor, like Silver Mirror and Reversal Trigger. The only bad thing for this deck is the increased use of Tool Scrapper because of these new tools (and Silver Bangle, G-Booster of course). Maybe all decks after the release of Plasma Blast will play 2 Tool Scrappers (1 for sure).
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
And that sucks. Garbodor was my deck through Cities, Spring Battle Roads, and Nationals. I want it to as well as possible.
And that sucks. Garbodor was my deck through Cities, Spring Battle Roads, and Nationals. I want it to as well as possible.
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
The main hit this deck takes is the sheer amount of Scrapper getting played next format. Plasma, which was already a bad matchup, now runs anywhere between 2-4 Scrapper which makes the matchup utterly horrendous. Genesect/Virizion is also a rather bad matchup, although I don't G/V is very good anyway (and they also run a lot of Scrapper).
The main hit this deck takes is the sheer amount of Scrapper getting played next format. Plasma, which was already a bad matchup, now runs anywhere between 2-4 Scrapper which makes the matchup utterly horrendous. Genesect/Virizion is also a rather bad matchup, although I don't G/V is very good anyway (and they also run a lot of Scrapper).
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
Are the extra scrappers completely terrible? Garb players could just play more conservatively, right?
Are the extra scrappers completely terrible? Garb players could just play more conservatively, right?
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
It's hard to play conservatively when Plasma can render your Garbodor useless over and over and over again as it completely tears your field to shreds with Kyurem. Other decks can ruin Garbodor with just 1-2 turns also. Garbodor generally wins by either completely and totally locking down your opponent's deck (something that happens to Blastoise) or slowing them down enough for Garbodor's half-decet attackers to get the job done. Scrapper makes both of those jobs useless and Garbodor just ends up being dead weight.
It's not a completely dead deck because it can work in the correct metagames (Blastoise isn't playing Scrapper anytime soon), but it's going to take a major hit with the new format and set. I've seen Japansese lists playing up to FOUR Tool Scrapper (which I think is some serious overkill but if Silver Mirror sees enough play, it's kind of a necessity.)
It's hard to play conservatively when Plasma can render your Garbodor useless over and over and over again as it completely tears your field to shreds with Kyurem. Other decks can ruin Garbodor with just 1-2 turns also. Garbodor generally wins by either completely and totally locking down your opponent's deck (something that happens to Blastoise) or slowing them down enough for Garbodor's half-decet attackers to get the job done. Scrapper makes both of those jobs useless and Garbodor just ends up being dead weight.
It's not a completely dead deck because it can work in the correct metagames (Blastoise isn't playing Scrapper anytime soon), but it's going to take a major hit with the new format and set. I've seen Japansese lists playing up to FOUR Tool Scrapper (which I think is some serious overkill but if Silver Mirror sees enough play, it's kind of a necessity.)
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
Any thoughts on playing Darkai EX/Garbador?
Any thoughts on playing Darkai EX/Garbador?
)RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
Darkai/Garbodor is absolutely terrible in the upcoming NXD-On format. Crushing Hammer is being rotated, and that's what made the deck so good. You could junk hunt hammers every turn and stop deluge with Garbotoxin.
masterforce said:
Darkai/Garbodor is absolutely terrible in the upcoming NXD-On format. Crushing Hammer is being rotated, and that's what made the deck so good. You could junk hunt hammers every turn and stop deluge with Garbotoxin.
RE: Garbodor (With Landorus EX, Tornadus EX, Cobalion EX, etc.)
Given the results of the No Cal Regional Top 8, of which 2 players running Big Basics with Garbodor, should this deck now be ranked as Tier 1 or 2?
Given the results of the No Cal Regional Top 8, of which 2 players running Big Basics with Garbodor, should this deck now be ranked as Tier 1 or 2?