Discussion Garchomp, Garchomp, Garchomp, so many ways to run Garchomp! (AFEX Article 2: Garchomp Variants)

AFEX

Serena is too cute!
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If you get the musical reference in the title, good for you, I don't care to explain it... heh.

Anywho, hey guys, it's AFEX, back with another article of my own. Last week we discussed the Octi-Ripple! (Octillery ripple effect) (Link down at the bottom if you want to read it), and now this week, I had many options for an article, but I thought I would talk about my favorite new rouge deck from Ultra Prism: Garchomp!

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So there's the chompy boy! Now I will give a very brief overview of it's attacks. First off, Quick Dive for 2 colorless energy (1 DCE) does 50 damage to any of your opponents Pokemon, of course without applying Weakness or Resistance to Benched Pokemon attacked. This attack has come in VERY clutch in a few of my matches played with this card. One game I had Royal Bladed a Tauros GX (W/ Choice band attached, sooo 130 damage to the Tauros, because unfortunately I had No Lucario in play and couldn't get my hands on a Cynthia that turn.), and the Tauros retreated into another (Un-damaged) Tauros GX, because he saw I had another fully powered Garchomp on my bench, and didn't want to deal with it, so he would let the other get damaged. All I had to do though was Quick Dive for KO. My opponent had no answer because he expected me to attack the Tauros in the active, he managed to however, get an enhanced hammer (Top deck) and knock off my DCE from my active Garchomp. I wasn't so confident in winning this game just because, I would have to top deck a Lucario or Cynthia. On my turn, I top decked a Lucario, evolved my Riolu, searched a Cynthia from my deck, Cynthia'd, drew 6 cards, managed to get a DCE and Royal Blades for game. Yah, I got lucky, but regardless that is the sheer power of the card, but that is just merely the first attack, (Although I talked about the second attack in the process. :confused:) The second attack does 100 damage for 1 fighting and 2 colorless energy, (1 fighting and a DCE in otherwords) and does 100 more damage if you played Cynthia from your hand on your turn. This attack is what you (most of the time) aim to be using, because it can sweep most GX's (All besides Wishiwashi GX, I believe), with this attack, why? Well it's simple math, 100 plus 100 more if you played Cynthia, plus a Choice Band (30 more Damage against EX's/GX's), that is 230 damage, enough to take out close to all GX Pokemon or any Pokemon in general in our current format (again, besides Wishiwashi GX).

So down below I am going to show ways to execute the Garchomp/Cynthia strategy in both Standard and Expanded, so that way you're doing 230 damage every turn!

Expanded:

Well, we have options For CynthiaChomp synergy, I'm not going to go to terribly in depth here, because there are only a few ways we can execute the strategy with speed and simplicity, and that is what this deck is looking for.

VS Seeker: Probably one of the most efficient ways to be able to play Cynthia every turn, however you can only play 4 VS Seeker max, per deck, so the Max amount of Cynthia you could play in perfect condition, would be 8.

Pal Pad w/Random Reciever (This could be Standard as well, so I won't restate in Standard Strats)

This may sound ineffective, but here's the gist, Pal Pad Cynthia from discard into deck, Pal Pad Cynthia from your deck to your hand, Cynthia for turn, and Royal Blades for 200 (minimum). Now you might be asking, what would you do if you get something but Cynthia. Heh, I'll explain that in a minute...

So if you used both VS Seeker and Pal Pad/Receiver you could use Cynthia up to 20 times (There is no way in god's name a game would last 20 turns, I don't think... unless I'm dumb and don't watch TCG matches enough.)!

Standard:

Already stated: Pal Pad/Reciever

Zoroark GX: While not the best option, this could definitely give a pretty decent chance of getting a Cynthia from your deck.

Tapu Lele GX: Of course, the supporter grabber, the wallet robber, is able to do such a simpleton task of getting out Cynthia! No explanation needed.

Octillery (BKT): While it's in Standard till August of this year, Octillery isn't terrible at getting Cynthia from the deck.

Lucario (ULP): This card allows you, (If and only if you have Garchomp in play) to search any card from your deck (during your turn, as much as you want throughout the entire game, as long as it's your turn, on your turn), and put it into your hand. This can grab a Cynthia from the deck, or anything, which is frankly, amazing.

Part II: All the ways to play Garchomp (Standard and Expanded)

I'm just gonna list off the different archetypes I can think of, then explain in depth.

-(Expanded)- Garchomp/Lucario/Altaria (return of FluffyChomp!)
-(Expanded)- Garchomp/Altaria (W/out Lucario)
-(Standard)- Garchomp/ Lucario (just normal run of the mill)
-(Standard {Rotating Soon})- Garchomp/Carbink BREAK/Lucario (Energy Accel)
-(Standard/Expanded {Rotating Soon})- Garchomp/Carbink BREAK/Lucario/ w/Friends (Previous arch, just simply with fighting friends)
-(Standard)- Garchomp/Zoroark GX/Lucario (a bit of a twist which I'll explain later ;))
-(Standard)- Garchomp/Zoroark GX (No Lucario)

Here we go, (GAK, I've been writing for sooo long), going in depth on allll of these. Going to number code these for the order in which I listed the archs'.

1. Yes, FluffyChomp returns! Altaria (DRX) allows your Dragon type Pokemon to do 10 more damage to your opponent's Pokemon, so you couldn't use this card with the alternate type Fighting Garchomp that's coming out next set. The extra damage allows you to KO anything in Expanded! (All except for Black Kyurem EX w/ a Crystal Wall attached, which allows it to have 300 HP). 4 Altaria on the bench, means with Cynthia being played that turn, you do 270 damage against EX's GX's with a Choice Band attached, 240 Damage without a Choice Band, 140 if you didn't play Cynthia that turn)

2. Same thing just without Lucario.

3. The run of the mill Garchomp Lucario, that allows you to set up with speed! Rare Candy and Lucario are critical in setting up 1 and multiple Garchomp! You can run Evosoda if you'd like.

4. Garchomp Carbink BREAK, is an arch that will allow you to get back the energy from the discard, using Carbink BREAK's Diamond Gift, for 20 Damage and attach and 2 energy cards from the discard to any of your benched Pokemon, now you might say, you mean Basic Energy, right? Nope, you can attach ANY (2) energy from the discard to any of your benched Pokemon! You can have a completely un-powered Garchomp on the bench, charged with one Diamond Gift! This archetype will get even better when I explain the "with friends variant below!

5. Garchomp Carbink BREAK, w/Friends.
Oh boy, this with friends deck will have to be expanded, THIS DECK NEEDS SKY FIELD! with the upcoming Diancie Prism Star (As long as Diancie is on your bench your Fighting Pokemon do 20 more damage) and fighting Garchomp, and so much more fighting support, you won't have enough bench space!

6. The goal of this deck is simply to Use Quick Dive, no Royal Blades, and play it with Zoroark GX for a shared secondary DCE attacker, and card drawer. Zoroark GX is an awesome secondary attacker when Garchomp isn't ready, this deck might need Counter Energy though, and Sky Field could be an option for Expanded.

7. Same as above, just without Lucario.

Part III:

Earlier I had said about the Pal Pad/Receiver for Cynthia that I wasn't ever worried about not hitting a Cynthia, why? Well in all my Chomp variants... the only supporter I play is Cynthia! The reason I only play Cynthia because in my Chomp variants I run 2 Pokemon Catcher and 2 Counter Catcher to drag Pokemon from the bench, like Guzma, just slightly less effective. Not to mention Cynthia gives me enough cards to get by and if not, I've got Lucario if I don't get enough cards to slide on by the next turn.

Conclusion:
So, what's your guys's thoughts, and verdict? I know my conclusion is, is that Garchomp Lucario is the new Greninja BREAK, it's budget friendly, powerful, easy to set up, and regardless of your list, is always consistent.

So, in sum, what article do you guys want to see next Saturday? Zoroark discussion, Buzzwole discussion, Rouge deck talk? Wooh, this was a long one in any regard though, so nothing too hefty.

In any case, this is AFEX, signing off.

~AFEX
 
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I wouldn't mind reading another rouge deck article. Although, maybe something about a rogue deck would be more appropriate.

As for your conclusion, I am afraid that Garchomp is a long way away from being in the same league as Greninja. Greninja has consistency problems enough as is, and the additions of multiple essential multi-stage lines would really hurt it. Garchomp suffers a lot from this. It's good - don't get me wrong, but Greninja is maybe a Tier 3 deck right now (and did have it's time in the Sun). But even when the [F] type Garchomp arrives, I'm afraid it will always be rogue at best. Both fab once you get the ball rolling, but both suffer from set-up issues galore.

But that is not even the biggest issue with Garchomp. That is reserved for the supporter restriction. You need to play Cynthia maybe four times out of every five turns? Which cuts off access to Guzma, to Acerola, to Sycamore, to Brigette.. and that all leaves you with very limited options. Suddenly you are susceptible to spread decks, and to energy denial decks, and to haymaker decks, and to mill decks, and to stall, and to healing, and to snipe, and to and to and to .. the list goes on. Sure you can try shore up one or two of these weaknesses, but you simply don't have the room to block them all.
 
I wouldn't mind reading another rouge deck article. Although, maybe something about a rogue deck would be more appropriate.

As for your conclusion, I am afraid that Garchomp is a long way away from being in the same league as Greninja. Greninja has consistency problems enough as is, and the additions of multiple essential multi-stage lines would really hurt it. Garchomp suffers a lot from this. It's good - don't get me wrong, but Greninja is maybe a Tier 3 deck right now (and did have it's time in the Sun). But even when the [F] type Garchomp arrives, I'm afraid it will always be rogue at best. Both fab once you get the ball rolling, but both suffer from set-up issues galore.

But that is not even the biggest issue with Garchomp. That is reserved for the supporter restriction. You need to play Cynthia maybe four times out of every five turns? Which cuts off access to Guzma, to Acerola, to Sycamore, to Brigette.. and that all leaves you with very limited options. Suddenly you are susceptible to spread decks, and to energy denial decks, and to haymaker decks, and to mill decks, and to stall, and to healing, and to snipe, and to and to and to .. the list goes on. Sure you can try shore up one or two of these weaknesses, but you simply don't have the room to block them all.

I understand.
 
Personally, I dislike the LucChomp (ha, sounds similar to another deck we've seen before, doesn't it?) deck. It seems too clunky for me. Of course, part of my problem was that I don't have many cards that are good in Standard, and I was playing with a very crude list, but I still don't much like the idea. Yes, Lucario is super consistent, but you only get to use it once you have a Garchomp out, and getting out Garchomp quickly is the entire reason you want to be consistent. Yeah, it's nice once you can use it, but it seems kinda tough. Sure, it'll help you chain Garchomp or get a Cynthia you need, but it just seems kinda meh. I think the deck might be mid-tier, but definitely not as good as people are hyping it up to be. I'm always a bit wary when things are hyped as OP (unless it's something that's just stupidly strong, and I mean like Lele levels of strong), so I don't have too high of expectations for this deck.

It is a shame, since it looks like a cool idea, but I think it won't be seeing too many high placing or anything. It's a perfectly fine deck for playing the PTCGO ladder or playing at a league, though.
 
(There is no way in god's name a game would last 20 turns, I don't think... unless I'm dumb and don't watch TCG matches enough.)
Have you played Sylveon before?

I have had games that last 50+ turns.
It was against another mill.
the turn play was:
Lusamine for lusamine and team rockets handiwork, pass
then,
team rockets handiwork, pass
Repeat.
 
My conclusion to LucChomp is that, while 200 damage on a non GX is amazing, its too clunky, even with Lucario. Loosing a Chomp early is GG, and not being able to search anything with lucarion due to no chomp almost seals the deal.
 
I think a list built like Tord's Sydney International deck list, but with Garchomp instead of Gardevoir might be a good way to approach Garchomp. This way you still have consistent card draw and pressure while you build up your Garchomp on the bench. The problem with just having Garchomp as your main attacker is that its a stage 2 and needs 2 energy attachments, as of right now I think the metas to fast to not have an alternate attacker to help him out.
 
I'm down to play Garchomp/Zoroark-GX(/Lucario)

I like the idea of accelerating with Zoroark. It's worked for Gardevior (another stage 2), as we have recently seen. I just can't see the appeal in attacking with Quick Dive, it doesn't really make any sense. Maybe perhaps Lucario is just better because you can get whatever you want, but as a backup attacker... it's a shallow pool to step into.

I made a list, it was done very quickly and probably very poorly:
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 20

* 2 Zorua SLG 52
* 2 Zoroark-GX PR-SM SM84
* 1 Gible UPR 97
* 2 Gabite UPR 98
* 3 Garchomp UPR 99
* 3 Gible BKP 68
* 2 Riolu BUS 70
* 2 Lucario UPR 67
* 1 Garchomp BKP 70
* 2 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60

##Trainer Cards - 30

* 4 Cynthia UPR 119
* 2 Brigette BKT 134
* 2 N FCO 105
* 1 Pal Pad FLF 92
* 4 Ultra Ball SUM 135
* 4 Choice Band GRI 121
* 2 Float Stone BKT 137
* 3 Devoured Field CIN 93
* 2 Guzma BUS 115
* 2 Evosoda XY 116
* 4 Rare Candy PRC 135

##Energy - 10

* 4 Double Colorless Energy EVO 90
* 6 Fighting Energy XYEnergy 3

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
 
What about using Lucario and (any) garchomp as a control deck, with the goal of getting 2-3 Lucarios out at once and using the garchomp only as a finisher / for enabling the searches? Use Resource Management oranguru and play it like a Sylveon deck.

This might be better in Expanded. And you would likely use the BKP garchomp because it can ohko Zoroark with strong energy and band
 
What about using Lucario and (any) garchomp as a control deck, with the goal of getting 2-3 Lucarios out at once and using the garchomp only as a finisher / for enabling the searches? Use Resource Management oranguru and play it like a Sylveon deck.

This might be better in Expanded. And you would likely use the BKP garchomp because it can ohko Zoroark with strong energy and band

There will be a new Fighting Garchomp in Forbidden Light as Stated in the article, not to mention you OHKO Zoroark regardless with Royal Blades+Choice Band.
 
I've been running this deck for a few days now, and one big drawback I keep running into is that the reliance on Cynthia to do big numbers can crowd out other supporters such as Guzma; in that particular case, I'm even considering replacing it with Pokémon Catcher despite its drawbacks.
 
I played against a Chomp deck in Expanded recently that was running a small Dual Brains Magnezone (PLS 46) line in place of the Lucario line in order to compensate for having to spam Cynthias. It was definately clunky, but it was a far closer matchup for me than any other Garchomp variant I've played against so far.
 
What about using Lucario and (any) garchomp as a control deck, with the goal of getting 2-3 Lucarios out at once and using the garchomp only as a finisher / for enabling the searches? Use Resource Management oranguru and play it like a Sylveon deck.

This might be better in Expanded. And you would likely use the BKP garchomp because it can ohko Zoroark with strong energy and band

This is a great idea actually. And something I will try out once Lucario GX drops. I am thinking some sort of combo between reasonable offense and a strict defensive slowdown of your opponent.
 
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