Garchomp

[Gale]

it will work a lot with r-gon, but r-gon won't work without the holon engine (it'll work, but not as well as it can)

 

[Elite_Riku]

Many reasons why this card is not good. 1) Its attack is very weak for its energy cost. Mind you, censation crystal is still in the format and latilock will be played because of electvire LV X, so automatically throwing in its body into the equation is not a great idea. 2) Its body is not that great. It needs the right kind of basic energy first off for it to even be activated (assuming the opponet has a weakness). Even with 4 castaway and given you'll probly be playing only 2-3 of every type of energy, its not that likely you'll have the body on every time (espically against decks with multiple weaknesses) and definately not likely to have it activated on 3-4 garchomps (which is what this format will come down to: Whose line(s) will be able to swarm the best). 3) Its line is only decent at best. Gabite is decent with its attack, but most of the starters nowadays have a 0 energy cost for there attack, so retreat won't mean no attack for the turn. The stage 1 guy (forget his name) is terrible. First attack means you'll be helping a garchomp on teh bench, but you know your losing a future garchomp. Its second attack.....well, there are better cards with flippy attacks, that for sure. 4) Its weakness isn't very pretty. Delcatty (ex) will be all the rage next format and most decks can afford to chuck in a delcatty ex. And again, castaway will be huge, so any deck with an empty space thats afraid of garchomp will tech in a crystal shard to do the extra 30 they need to ko you. It does have a few positives, including free retreat and decent hp (well, average for stage 2 in DP-on), but the pros outweigh the cons by alot.

There's many reason why this card is good. 1) can play boost energy for 70 damage. Or if you have the right kind of energy, garchomp can do 110 damage. 2) the body is awesome. You can get the right kind energy out by using castaway, mr stone project, and a new dp3 supporter (forgot its name). You'll have NO problem to get the right kind energy. 3) you can play memory berry and use gible's attack. If you got the right kind energy, you can do 50 and force your opponet to switch. Pretty awesome. 4) you can play blasty d as tech. Also drake stadium will be very useful. That will reduce garchomp weakness. I mean if you have drake stadium out then it will take away 10 damage. Garchomp weakness is +30, while you have drake's then it will be like +20. Papi, Garchomp can ko delcatty 1 hit. Ex which means 2 prizes. Garchomp is better card. Also garchomp only counts 1 prize. 1>2. 5) free retreat, awesome! Nuff said.
6) garchomp almost can ko any poke. Include new stage 2 poke.

Actually papi, I still disagee with ya. I'm sure pros beats cons alot.

 

[Papi/Manny]

1) You're giving it the t3 correct energy and the body activated. Without that body, the card is just terrible and I'm sure EVERYBODY would agree with that. I know as soon as I see gabite I'm going to go castaway for a censation crystal and shut of the body and get another castaway in case you can windstorm the first one away.

Fine, go ahead play cessation. I'll play wp or ws. If I play wp then I still can use my garchomp body. If you retreat and bring out cessation crystal guy then you'll not be able to do much. Then I'll evolve to garchomp then ko your poke.

2) Empoleon doesn't have to ko the garchomp. Its the job of the 2nd one to do that (given garchomp got the first hit in). And if that first garchomp goes down before the 2nd one is fully built up, you're going to have to sac pokes to build it up. And once that starts, you're not going to be able to catch up to the opponets prize lead and bench support. Gatr will sac a few pokes to get the proper # of energy in hand to start killing garchomp after garchomp and overwhelm you. [/quote]

I know empoleon match will be hard but I'm sure garchomp can ko empoleon 1 hit. Lv x power then plus or strength then 110.
For gatr, I bet there's many team galactic's wager out there. That will hurt gatr's attack. Garchomp deck MIGHT run TGW to reduce gatr's attack.

[/quote]
3) 110 doesn't ko any of the new stage 2s (which is what I said, not that 110 doesn't ko alot). If its facing something like cricket, then it'll 1 shot it, sure. But at the same time, you're going to be facing a rush and quick damage. If you can't build up the 2nd garchomp (which is what'll come down to) in time, you'll still lose. [/quote]

Ok, first, garchomp does KO the NEW stage 2 poke. Look up all new stage 2. I'm not going to list ALL of em. But I'm gonna say some for now. Ape, garchomp, zam, crobat, electivire, and magmortar. I know electivire and magmortar isn't stage 2 but when they evolve from baby, kinda counts. But when lv x is out, I can do more damage. 130 tops. Power, sc or pp, then 110. I can KO new stage 2 poke. Aint gonna list em. > >

And kricketune can't ko garchomp. That depends on how many kricketot on the bench. If kricketot is in your prize then you shouldn't be able to ko my garchomp. If you have kricketune out and only have 2 kricketot out, you'll only do 70 damage. Then I'll ko kricketot. You ko me with 60 damage. I rc and boost then plus or strength. Ko your kricketune. You only have 1 kricketot left and you'll not be able do much. I would say 60-40, garchomp favor.

[/quote]
4) Most cricket lists play warp point, since removing special conditions is a pain, so if thats your only pokemon and you have to do that t1 to stall, its not looking good for you already. [/quote]

What happen IF you DONT have wp? I'll have advange. Plus I'll play boost then pluspower or strength charm. I don't care if you play cessation, I'll still be able to ko you. Plus if kricketot is in prize or discard pile or couldn't get it out, you'll be doing VERY little damage. You can't do 80 in t2 everytime.
And btw papi, we have discuss this be4. This isn't gonna anywhere. -_-
[/quote]
1) Play a warp point. It gives you 1 turn to get your body back in. Windstorm counters the crystal, but with the speed of the castaway engine, its not going to win you the game to drop 1 windstorm early (unless you're opening hand has multiple windstorms/warp points, which usually means you have a terrible opening hand). 2) If empoleon is such a hard matchup, why would you play this card?? Empoleon and gatr are going to be rampant during BRs and cites, and playing a deck with a 40-60 matchup or worst is not a great idea. "Garchomp can 1 shot empoleon with a charm or plus power". K, but thats given you have 1 of your 2-3 lighting on it and you can windstorm away their crystal. 3) It doesn't ko zam if it attacked the previous turn, it doesn't ko rhyperior, gatr, empoleon, torterria, gatr d (this will still be played in decent numbers), queen, king d, or kingdra ex d, all of which will be played this season. If you're going out of your way to drop 3 energy (one of which has to match the defending pokemon's weakness) to get to a decent amount of damage and you still don't 1 shot the defending pokemon, you're going to lose simpley because that list of pokes either has faster attacks, stronger attacks, or has dres/scrambles in their list to speed up thier decks. On the cricket, thats assuming you can get a t2-3 chomp with boost and charm is even harder then the t2 infernape dre for the donk. If you miss that (heck, if you don't even start with a giblie), then the cricket swarm will over-power you too early and a single bet could end your game before you even saw a garchomp. 4) Thats my point on you not opening with windstorm/warp point and you can't remove my t2 crystal. And you don't 1 shot a cricket with a buffer piece on it, now do you? And I've done t2 80 90% of the games I've played my list with (the other 10% were me getting lone basic and 6 energy, ect.).

 

[Elite_Riku]

1) Play a warp point. It gives you 1 turn to get your body back in. Windstorm counters the crystal, but with the speed of the castaway engine, its not going to win you the game to drop 1 windstorm early (unless you're opening hand has multiple windstorms/warp points, which usually means you have a terrible opening hand). 2) If empoleon is such a hard matchup, why would you play this card?? Empoleon and gatr are going to be rampant during BRs and cites, and playing a deck with a 40-60 matchup or worst is not a great idea. "Garchomp can 1 shot empoleon with a charm or plus power". K, but thats given you have 1 of your 2-3 lighting on it and you can windstorm away their crystal. 3) It doesn't ko zam if it attacked the previous turn, it doesn't ko rhyperior, gatr, empoleon, torterria, gatr d (this will still be played in decent numbers), queen, king d, or kingdra ex d, all of which will be played this season. If you're going out of your way to drop 3 energy (one of which has to match the defending pokemon's weakness) to get to a decent amount of damage and you still don't 1 shot the defending pokemon, you're going to lose simpley because that list of pokes either has faster attacks, stronger attacks, or has dres/scrambles in their list to speed up thier decks. On the cricket, thats assuming you can get a t2-3 chomp with boost and charm is even harder then the t2 infernape dre for the donk. If you miss that (heck, if you don't even start with a giblie), then the cricket swarm will over-power you too early and a single bet could end your game before you even saw a garchomp. 4) Thats my point on you not opening with windstorm/warp point and you can't remove my t2 crystal. And you don't 1 shot a cricket with a buffer piece on it, now do you? And I've done t2 80 90% of the games I've played my list with (the other 10% were me getting lone basic and 6 energy, ect.).

1) gible gible. If you don't have warp point or windstorm then use gible's attack. If I have garchomp out, I still can force you to switch. Memory berry then gible's attack till I have windstorm or warp point. But since I make you to switch, my body is back. Then I'll use 110 damage next turn. 2) first, empoleon match will be hard for now. When garchomp lv x is out then that will make this match tons easier. Still be able to ko empoleon with 1 pluspower or strength. 40-60? Incorrect, should be 50-50. 3) you said this, "It doesn't ko zam if it attacked the previous turn", the question is what happen if it didn't attacked the previous turn? I'll be still able to KO zam. Yes, you are right but with garchomp lv x and plus or strength, garchomp should be able to ko anything. For example: queen, king, empoleon, gatr, and more. Also you said this, "you still don't 1 shot the defending pokemon, you're going to lose simpley because that list of pokes either has faster attacks, stronger attacks", if I got t3 garchomp out, I should be able to ko anything. 110 damage in t3, too fast and too powerful attack. Then you'll waste your time to build up poke while I keep doing 110 damage. While you keep building poke, my 2nd garchomp should be ready when my 1st garchomp dies. So GG. So you said this, "cricket swarm will over-power you too early and a single bet could end your game before you even saw a garchomp", where do I begin. Like I said before, I'll rc then boost then plus or strength. I'll be able to kill your cricket. When I kill your cricket, you are defense less and your damage will reduce. If you have another cricket, then DRE or scramble, you still can't ko my garchomp. So its my turn, if I have another boost and strength, I'll be able to ko your 2nd cricket. If I don't have boost, I'll retreat then build up garchomp OR memory berry then use gible's attack. I have force you to switch which means you'll not be able to do much. Then stall. 2 turns later, I'll ko your cricket and that will make us even. Then again, you damage me which still can't ko my garchomp. I draw then build up gible then ko your kricketunes with garchomp. 4) LOL papi, you are making this easier for me. You said this, "Thats my point on you not opening with windstorm/warp point and you can't remove my t2 crystal. And you don't 1 shot a cricket with a buffer piece on it, now do you". Ok, first, gible gible gible. I can avoid your t2 crystal. I can't ko your cricket with a buffer piece? Lets see, 110 damage - 20 damage from buffer piece= 90 damage. Thats t1 KO. If I don't have enough energy then I'll use boost then windstorm then strength or plus. Still t1 ko. Lol

 

[Papi/Manny]

1) Play a warp point. It gives you 1 turn to get your body back in. Windstorm counters the crystal, but with the speed of the castaway engine, its not going to win you the game to drop 1 windstorm early (unless you're opening hand has multiple windstorms/warp points, which usually means you have a terrible opening hand). 2) If empoleon is such a hard matchup, why would you play this card?? Empoleon and gatr are going to be rampant during BRs and cites, and playing a deck with a 40-60 matchup or worst is not a great idea. "Garchomp can 1 shot empoleon with a charm or plus power". K, but thats given you have 1 of your 2-3 lighting on it and you can windstorm away their crystal. 3) It doesn't ko zam if it attacked the previous turn, it doesn't ko rhyperior, gatr, empoleon, torterria, gatr d (this will still be played in decent numbers), queen, king d, or kingdra ex d, all of which will be played this season. If you're going out of your way to drop 3 energy (one of which has to match the defending pokemon's weakness) to get to a decent amount of damage and you still don't 1 shot the defending pokemon, you're going to lose simpley because that list of pokes either has faster attacks, stronger attacks, or has dres/scrambles in their list to speed up thier decks. On the cricket, thats assuming you can get a t2-3 chomp with boost and charm is even harder then the t2 infernape dre for the donk. If you miss that (heck, if you don't even start with a giblie), then the cricket swarm will over-power you too early and a single bet could end your game before you even saw a garchomp. 4) Thats my point on you not opening with windstorm/warp point and you can't remove my t2 crystal. And you don't 1 shot a cricket with a buffer piece on it, now do you? And I've done t2 80 90% of the games I've played my list with (the other 10% were me getting lone basic and 6 energy, ect.).

1) gible gible. If you don't have warp point or windstorm then use gible's attack. If I have garchomp out, I still can force you to switch. Memory berry then gible's attack till I have windstorm or warp point. But since I make you to switch, my body is back. Then I'll use 110 damage next turn. 2) first, empoleon match will be hard for now. When garchomp lv x is out then that will make this match tons easier. Still be able to ko empoleon with 1 pluspower or strength. 40-60? Incorrect, should be 50-50. 3) you said this, "It doesn't ko zam if it attacked the previous turn", the question is what happen if it didn't attacked the previous turn? I'll be still able to KO zam. Yes, you are right but with garchomp lv x and plus or strength, garchomp should be able to ko anything. For example: queen, king, empoleon, gatr, and more. Also you said this, "you still don't 1 shot the defending pokemon, you're going to lose simpley because that list of pokes either has faster attacks, stronger attacks", if I got t3 garchomp out, I should be able to ko anything. 110 damage in t3, too fast and too powerful attack. Then you'll waste your time to build up poke while I keep doing 110 damage. While you keep building poke, my 2nd garchomp should be ready when my 1st garchomp dies. So GG. So you said this, "cricket swarm will over-power you too early and a single bet could end your game before you even saw a garchomp", where do I begin. Like I said before, I'll rc then boost then plus or strength. I'll be able to kill your cricket. When I kill your cricket, you are defense less and your damage will reduce. If you have another cricket, then DRE or scramble, you still can't ko my garchomp. So its my turn, if I have another boost and strength, I'll be able to ko your 2nd cricket. If I don't have boost, I'll retreat then build up garchomp OR memory berry then use gible's attack. I have force you to switch which means you'll not be able to do much. Then stall. 2 turns later, I'll ko your cricket and that will make us even. Then again, you damage me which still can't ko my garchomp. I draw then build up gible then ko your kricketunes with garchomp. 4) LOL papi, you are making this easier for me. You said this, "Thats my point on you not opening with windstorm/warp point and you can't remove my t2 crystal. And you don't 1 shot a cricket with a buffer piece on it, now do you". Ok, first, gible gible gible. I can avoid your t2 crystal. I can't ko your cricket with a buffer piece? Lets see, 110 damage - 20 damage from buffer piece= 90 damage. Thats t1 KO. If I don't have enough energy then I'll use boost then windstorm then strength or plus. Still t1 ko. Lol

1) Only works early game. Otherwise, you're just sacking a future garchomp (agian, swarming is key). If you use memeory berry, you still only hit for 10 (even though I would question why on earth you would waste a space in your deck to have such an option) and i simply have to retreat next turn to *most likely* finish off your garchomp. 2) Again, if. And it doesn't make it easier at all, since you need to get up a garchomp and be able to sucessfully evo it into the lvl X AND need to hope your newly aquired garchomp doesn't get sniped like crazy. Its still not in your favor either way because empoleon will outspeed you in damage output early game and will set-up kos on your benched garchomps/gibiles/w.e.. 3) If it didn't attack last turn, I'm sure the opponet let it stay up there to power up a benched poke (and thats assuming, again, your body is activated. How many energies do you need to waste in this deck? 18-20??). And if they're sacing it to power up something else, then they will get the first attack in and will *most likely* take down garchomp before garchomp takes them down. IF thats the case, you need to be able to reply to that. Given garchomps speed, it'll mean you'll have to sac another poke (at least) to power up another one, which gives them time to power up another one of their active pokes. As you can see, garchomp doesn't win in this situation, given they didn't prize a major amount of thier line, ect. Again, I don't see where you're getting 110 t3 is too strong or anything like that. Zapturndos did 70 t2 and for the rest of the game, ZRE did well over 110 t3, Powblock did well over 110 t3. What seperates these decks from garchomp? Multiple nice attackers (zapturndos usually saw eletrode ex or manetric (ex) as a back-up guy) and energy excel. Trust me when I say you will never, ever win a game against a good player (minus donks) if your going to use a guy that takes multiple turns to set-up. Look at charizard ex. 200 damage. Alot more then 110. Takes at least 3 turns to power up (given boost). So it takes the same speed as garchomp. Was it ever played in a competive deck? no. Why? Because it took too many turns to power up. If there was an energy excelerator for him, he would've been more playable. Same with garchomp. As for cricket, 1) Thats how many cards for you're opening hand? Gibile, candy, garchomp, boost, charm. 5 out of 8. That gives you a terribly low hand size, which will probly spell you doom later in the game. And what if I dropped a beach down before you did all that? Now you need a windstorm on top of all that. Not lookin good. 4) Warp point, warp point, switch. *wishs fluffy berry was still in format*. I don't see how you got 110 t1, since boost makes your body fail to work. *again questions how many energy is played in this deck*. Think about how many times you saw ape get a t1-2 ko. Now make them throw in a windstorm and a charm into the equation (because beach wasn't heavly played last format) and you'll see how often you really get that quick ko.

 

[Elite_Riku]

1) Only works early game. Otherwise, you're just sacking a future garchomp (agian, swarming is key). If you use memeory berry, you still only hit for 10 (even though I would question why on earth you would waste a space in your deck to have such an option) and i simply have to retreat next turn to *most likely* finish off your garchomp. 2) Again, if. And it doesn't make it easier at all, since you need to get up a garchomp and be able to sucessfully evo it into the lvl X AND need to hope your newly aquired garchomp doesn't get sniped like crazy. Its still not in your favor either way because empoleon will outspeed you in damage output early game and will set-up kos on your benched garchomps/gibiles/w.e.. 3) If it didn't attack last turn, I'm sure the opponet let it stay up there to power up a benched poke (and thats assuming, again, your body is activated. How many energies do you need to waste in this deck? 18-20??). And if they're sacing it to power up something else, then they will get the first attack in and will *most likely* take down garchomp before garchomp takes them down. IF thats the case, you need to be able to reply to that. Given garchomps speed, it'll mean you'll have to sac another poke (at least) to power up another one, which gives them time to power up another one of their active pokes. As you can see, garchomp doesn't win in this situation, given they didn't prize a major amount of thier line, ect. Again, I don't see where you're getting 110 t3 is too strong or anything like that. Zapturndos did 70 t2 and for the rest of the game, ZRE did well over 110 t3, Powblock did well over 110 t3. What seperates these decks from garchomp? Multiple nice attackers (zapturndos usually saw eletrode ex or manetric (ex) as a back-up guy) and energy excel. Trust me when I say you will never, ever win a game against a good player (minus donks) if your going to use a guy that takes multiple turns to set-up. Look at charizard ex. 200 damage. Alot more then 110. Takes at least 3 turns to power up (given boost). So it takes the same speed as garchomp. Was it ever played in a competive deck? no. Why? Because it took too many turns to power up. If there was an energy excelerator for him, he would've been more playable. Same with garchomp. As for cricket, 1) Thats how many cards for you're opening hand? Gibile, candy, garchomp, boost, charm. 5 out of 8. That gives you a terribly low hand size, which will probly spell you doom later in the game. And what if I dropped a beach down before you did all that? Now you need a windstorm on top of all that. Not lookin good. 4) Warp point, warp point, switch. *wishs fluffy berry was still in format*. I don't see how you got 110 t1, since boost makes your body fail to work. *again questions how many energy is played in this deck*. Think about how many times you saw ape get a t1-2 ko. Now make them throw in a windstorm and a charm into the equation (because beach wasn't heavly played last format) and you'll see how often you really get that quick ko.

Sighs.... I thought you can figure this out but probly not... -_-
Memory berry, garchomp use gible's attack. Not 10 damage. You are FORGETTING about garchomp's body. 50 damage papi, not 10. Only if you have the right energy which shouldn't be that hard. > > As I recall, when I use gible's attack, you can retreat but you wouldn't do much. For example: you go first, I go 2nd. You play kricketot with 2 energy and cessation crystal. I have garchomp w fire energy and memory berry. Then I use gible's attack for 50 damage and force you to switch. Your bench doesn't have any energy so you bring up your krick then pass you can't retreat because you need 2 energy which you have none (even thou you do NOT have switch or wp). Then I draw, my garchomp is fully ready then ko your kric. Then you bring up krick and do damage to me then I ko your krick. Simple. Memory berry is helpful. 2) empoleon may snipe like crazy but garchomp will ko prinplup and empoleon like crazy. Did I say garchomp will snipe like crazy? LOL, no.... Use garchomp lv x power to but 1 damage on any poke then it finish off. 120 damage. 3) since abra evolve himself w/out rare candy, garchomp can ko zam. Or keep attacking w garchomp even thou it doesn't ko zam. 4) wow, off topic. Ok, t3 110 is impressive. Don't have to discard energy or any require for its attack. Also stop going off point, its pointless to bring up old decks. We are talking about hp-on. So please do talk about hp-on. > >
And this format, there's no poke can do more than 110 in t3 (unless I'm forgetting something)
5) you said this, "Trust me when I say you will never, ever win a game against a good player (minus donks) if your going to use a guy that takes multiple turns to set-up." Ok, this is pointless. So you are calling me a bad player? This is most stupidest thing ever I heard. Also why do I want to trust you? That's a good question. 6) "Look at charizard ex. 200 damage. Alot more then 110. Takes at least 3 turns to power up (given boost). So it takes the same speed as garchomp." LAWL. Ok first, charizard ex is banned. Second, garchomp is better than charizard. Garchomp counts one prize and charizard counts 2 prizes. Look at charizard retreat cost and look at garchomp retreat cost. Garchomp attack is better than charizard because don't have to discard energy to use its attack. Garchomp can do 110 for while, charizard only can do 200 once while. Charizard is lame, gj papi for bringing this up. > > 7) "As for cricket, 1) Thats how many cards for you're opening hand? Gibile, candy, garchomp, boost, charm. 5 out of 8. That gives you a terribly low hand size, which will probly spell you doom later in the game. And what if I dropped a beach down before you did all that? Now you need a windstorm on top of all that. Not lookin good." When I ko your poke, simple, retreat then build up garchomp. Use chingling or budew or smeargle or steven's or copycat or other cards to support you to get couple of cards. Then I'll get 2 turns to build up garchomp cuz you need 2 energy to attack me with krick. If you are planning to use DRE or scramble, that will not do much damage. 8) I wasn't talking about t1 110. I was talking about 1 hit ko your lame buffer piece.