OU: Pokémon Gardevoir Discussion Thread

professorlight

professorlight

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Gardevoir
Gardevoir.png


Gardevoir
Type: Psychic / Fairy
Abilities: Synchronize / Trace / Telepathy (Hidden)
Stats: 68 / 65 / 65 / 125 / 115 / 80

Mega Gardevoir
Type: Psychic / Fairy
Ability: Pixilate (Normal-type moves become Fairy-type moves, granting a 30% power boost + STAB)
Stats: 65 / 85 / 65 / 165 / 135 / 100

Notable moves:

Misty terrain
Healing wish
Confusion
Double team sadly prohibited
Teleport useless
Wish
Lucky chant
Magical leaf
Heal pulse
Calm mind
Psychic
Imprison useless
Future sight can't pull it off right
Captivate doesn't need it
Charm ->alternative to will-o-wisp?
Hypnosis ->inaccurate but worth it
Dream eater
Stored power
Moonblast

Psyshock
Toxic
Hidden power
Hyper beam
Light screen
Protect
Rain dance
Safeguard misty terrain is WAY better
Frustration who the f*** uses frustration?
Thunderbolt
Return sadly can't pull it off, but the only viable physical move gardevoir gets
Shadow ball
Reflect
Attract ->lesser alternative to hypnosis?
Round crap
Echoed voice crapnot bad
Focus miss
Energy ball
Charge beam thunderbolt's better
Will-o-wisp ->only through breeding
Giga impact f**** no
Thunder wave
Grass knot
Swagger can't afford giving more attack to the opponent
Substitute
Trick room too fast for it, right?
Dazzling gleam moonblast's better
Hyper voice ->sadly, only BW2 move tutor


Thoughts
I'm no expert on competitive battling, I'll leave that to you guys; but I have been using gardevoir since day one, and I always have trouble deciding which awesome move combinations to give her; she gets really good support moves like heal pulse, the screens and healing wish but her high sp att. and decent speed make her a good sweeper (to me; I know she's outmatched in everything, competitively speaking).
But the 6th gen has been particularly good to lil' ol' gardie here, she has now a brand new type, which gives her neutral damage from dark types and STAB in supereffective moves against them also, not to mention dragon inmunity and supereffectiveness, and although she gains a weakness to poison and steel, she still can fight back against one of them; steel always walled gardevoir, now she only has more reason to switch out, so it's of minimal consequence.
She also gets a mega now, with an interesting ability, though not much to use it with, the only decent normal type moves gardevoir gets are return (I love it, but gardie's low attack makes it a waste of a slot) and hyper beam, which, although a fairy type hyper beam is very tempting in certain situations, the resting turn after it is a luxury gardevoir can't take. And that's it, round and echoed voice are crap.

Gardevoir's abilities are highly incidental, and it's not something worth worrying about. Of them, trace seems to be the best (even though it sucks if someone throws you a slaking), since synchronize only benefits you once, and not even protects you from status. Telepathy can be useful in doubles with a partner with earthquake, since it would destroy her, but not much outside of that.

Move-wise, I know in competitive battling she is frequently given thunderbolt, will-o-wisp and sometimes focus blast. I usually give her calm mind-hypnosis + psychic/dream eater/stored power+double team and now I'm thinking a moonblast variant of the stored power set, taking advantage of double team and pokemon amie to build stored power, and moonblast for coverage. For support I'm thinking will-o-wisp-heal pulse-psychic-misty terrain or something, misty terrain seems too awesome to be left unused.

So, what do you experts think? can gardevoir gain something with the fairy type and her mega? at least now she won't be pushed around by dark types...

EDIT: revised the moves list
 
The Fairy type alone isn't a huge buff. She's a good NU Pokemon, but I can only see the fairy typing getting her either higher in NU or in to low RU.

Mega evolution would've been much better if the extra points were in defense instead of attack.

Pixilate Gardevoir can potentially become really deadly. The Mega evo is stronger on the offense than vanilla Gardevoir, and Pixilate will boost Hyper Voice, come December, to a 117 BP move before STAB. Plus it hits through substitute. It makes her a prime offensive pokemon, though she needs more speed.

All defensive Gardevoir sets are outclassed by the original evo due to a lack of leftovers. Any offensive Gardevoir set, with the exception of Choice sets, are for the mega evo.
 
As much as I /love/ Gardevoir, I can't see her doing all that much on OU. It's just too slow and too frail to do anything, even with the buffed typing.

However, lower than OU I could see Gardevoir doing quite a lot, even all the way up in UU. The Fairy-type is a bigger buff than most people make it out to be. Even though you're still really frail physically, you are no longer weak to Pursuit or U-turn, and you now have an impressive double resistance to Fighting, which means even the strongest Close Combats won't do that much to you. In addition, Gardevoir has access to both Will-o-Wisp, and Reflect to alleviate its physical frailty somewhat.

In addition to this, Trace is HUGE in the lower tiers. Slowbro and Slowking possess Regenerator, Nidoking and Nidoqueen have Sheer Force, Yanmega (which you aren't weak to!) has Speed Boost. Prankster, Intimidate, Natural Cure, Flash Fire, Solid Rock, and more reside down in these tiers, which Trace can take advantage of.

I'll write more on Gardevoir's weaknesses and its possible sets but atm I have to go to class
 
It's a shame that Mega Gardevoir's ability is basically useless, and its stat spread could be better...as well as its appearance. All we get out of it is a sigh and a giant "meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh".
More to the point, losing weaknesses to Bug and Dark? Yes please, especially with Trace. I don't know if this'll be enough to skyrocket Gardy into OU (HAHAHAHA probably not) but at least she doesn't have to die in obscurity now.

If someone actually finds a good use for Pixilate on M.Gardevoir that doesn't involve the move Hyper Beam, please speak up. I've thought and I can't think of one.
 
Specs Pixilate Hyper Beam seems kinda good in 1 on 1 mons. huehuehuehue

Also to make the OP a little less cluttered, I'd suggest removing Double Team (because it's illegal via Evasion Clause), Round, Confusion, Weather-inducing moves, Swagger, Flash, Psych Up, Charge Beam, Return, Frustration, Magical Leaf, Confusion, Heal Pulse, Lucky Chant, Charm, and Captivate. It's just a lot of moves too look at right now and those ones aren't really useful at all.

Oh I also want to point out that Gardevoir has to learn Will-o-Wisp via breeding. I tried teaching my Gardevoir Will-o-Wisp via the TM and it would not allow me. Just saying.

ANYWAYS as I promised, Weaknesses and Possible Sets

The first weakness is the obvious physical frailty. Reflect and Will-o-Wisp do help, but with Gardevoir's fantastic movepool, I could be using that moveslot on something else instead. The fact that the OU Meta is physically-based does not help this much either. With mons like Dragonite, Scizor, Azumarill, Excadrill, and Blaziken running around, that makes it very hard for Gardy.

The second weakness that I have not elaborated on very much is that Gardevoir has no reliable recovery. You can use Wish/Protect but that forces you to drop half of your moves right there. In addition, Gardevoir's measly base 68 (or 65) HP does not make it a very good wishpasser when there are pokemon like Umbreon in UU, Clefable in RU, and this other giant fat pink blob named Blissey in OU. Rest, while going back to DPP mechanics, isn't very reliable on Gardevoir because of its physical frailty. It's harder for Gardevoir to switch in repetitively and get the sleep turns away.

Lastly, Gardevoir has very middling speed. Base 80 isn't awful, but it sure isn't that great either. On a pokemon with such fantastic Special Attack as well as such a fantastic movepool, it really is quite disappointing. This basically forces Gardevoir to either hold a choice Scarf, or play a bulky offense kind of role. Bulky Attackers are generally defensive on both ends (see: Nidoqueen, SpDef Rhyperior, or in OU see Heatran, Scizor). In UU this might not be quite as bad as there were several popular special attackers in that tier last gen, but you never know how the tiers will shift.

Possible sets:
Support
[animate]gardevoir[/animate]
Gardevoir @Leftovers
Trait: Trace/Synchronize
Bold nature
252 HP/72 Def or SpDef/184 Spe
~Wish
~Protect
~Will-o-Wisp/Reflect
~Psychic/Psyshock

So I gave Gardevoir enough speed to outrun Honchkrow (which sits at base 71) and dumped the rest into its bulk. However the Speed EVs obviously change depending on what lands in which tier. Basically run enough speed to outrun a specific physical attacker, allowing you to Will-o-Wisp or Reflect before they can hit you. Then you dump the rest in bulk to take hits as easily as possible. 252 HP is a must so you can pass off the highest HP wishes possible, and the rest goes into either Defense or Special Defense. I would assume Defense since you already take Special Attacks decently (base 115 SpDef) but if you want to put EVs in SpDef to take the more powerful ones better, I guess that makes sense. Will-o-Wisp/Reflect should give you passable defense anyways. Psychic and Psyshock are there so you're not complete taunt bait. Trace is the preferred ability because tracing things like Intimidate or Water Absorb is just fantastic. Synchronize is viable on this so you can put Toxic back at opponents who try to stall you out, but Trace is definitely preferred.

Choice Scarf
[animate]gardevoir[/animate] @Choice Scarf
Trait: Trace
Timid nature
4 Def/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
~Psychic/Psyshock
~Focus Blast
~Moonblast
~Thunderbolt/Healing Wish/Hypnosis/Grass Knot/Shadow Ball depending on what tier this pokemon and others land in

Your basic Scarf attacker. Psychic/Psyshock are for STAB, and Focus Blast gives you near-perfect neutral coverage. Moonblast is a solid STAB option now, and it also hits Dragons super-effectively allowing you to check Lati@s, Garchomp, Salamence, Haxorus, Dragonite (even +1 Adamant) in OU. You'll still check Flygon, Kingdra, and Druddigon in the lower tiers, and it's good against Zygarde wherever that thing ends up. Last move comes down to what lands where. Thunderbolt is the stereotypical coverage move since it hits Water-types and Flying-types. Grass Knot hits Water-types and Ground-types. Scarf Hypnosis has a decent surprise factor, but is unreliable due to its accuracy. Shadow ball is mostly redundant since Moonblast will already hit Latias and Latios, but you can still use it to hit other Psychic-types, like Alakazam. Healing Wish is not a bad alternative either. You can sacrifice your low-hp Gardevoir to completely heal an ally. Play this set with Trace so you can hopefully get something like Regenerator, Multiscale, or Water Absorb to give you some kind of survivability. Sheer Force is never bad either.

You could try a Life Orb set similar to the Scarf set above. Give yourself enough speed to outrun a specific pokemon, and then split the rest between Special Attack and HP. However, middling speed and a lack of solid resistances other than Fighting makes this very difficult to pull off. There are several other options you could try as well, such as a Calm Mind set that functions similar to Superachi!, a Chesto Rest Calm Mind set, a Dual Screens set, or a Double Status set (Gardevoir gets Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Hypnosis, and Toxic so you can go absolutely nuts.) but I think most of these sets are going to end up being outclassed by different pokemon. (Ie: Why use Dual Screens Gardevoir when you could use Azelf or Deoxys)
 
DNA said:
If someone actually finds a good use for Pixilate on M.Gardevoir that doesn't involve the move Hyper Beam, please speak up. I've thought and I can't think of one.
Click to expand...
Hyper Voice from BW2 Move Tutor.

Pixilate gives a 30% boost to the attack's base power, so it's 117 BP. Beats Moonblast by 22 BP.
 
As much as i loved Gardevoir, especially it's Mega's shiny form, sadly Pixilate is still a useless ability as for now. Unless we have a Special version of Return, then the best use for now is Hyper Voice or Hyper Beam which is rarely used. And here i thought they invented Pixilate wlong with some useful new moves, but nada. Mega Pinsir's Aerilate is much better since it got an access to Return that become a 130something base BP with the 30% boost before counting STAB.

My current Gardevoir got Timid nature, spent 252 on the Speed EV and got 31 Speed IV, and during the Mega form her speed reaches 167 (on lv.50). It's quite high but she can't even take one hit of priority Brave Bird from Gale WIngs Talonflame, and easily hit by Aegislash' Shadow Sneak to death.

I wish she had different ability for the Mega form, something like lesser version of Fairy Aura, or something like Fairy Guard to improve the defensive capability of Fairy-type allies including her. :(
 
I think pixilate will be as irrelevant as trace, synchronize or telepathy; not having usable moves for it is one thing (195 BP fairy type + STAB hyper beam notwithstanding) but even if you prepare for it replacing moonblast with hyper voice, you get a gardevoir without a fairy STAB unless it's mega evolved, all in exchange of 22 extra BP (not to mention the hassle of having to teach her hyper voice in BW2).
I think if the purpose of gardevoir is acting as the only mega evolved sweeper in the party (and again, according to you, she's not even that good at it) she should get:

252 Speed/Defense EVs
-psyshock
-hyper beam
-focus blast
-thunderbolt/energy ball/shadow ball

Psyshock to hit weakness or physically frail pokemon, hyper beam for fairy STAB and to overwhelm pretty much everything non-resistant, the others for coverage.

Or as a supporter (no mega):

252 HP/Speed
-wish
-reflect/will-o-wisp/charm
-hypnosis/thunder wave
-dream eater/moonblast

Hypnosis to stall, reflect/wish to keep her alive for more time and helping others, will-o-wisp and thunder wave to annoy the opponent, dream eater if you run hypnosis and moonblast if you don't or want something good not resisted by dark, or you are aiming to be a dovahkiin and f*** up dragons (could be paired with misty terrain, but then it would f*** up your own status moves).

Though now that I mention the dovahkiin, hyper voice is starting to sound more and more attractive... fus-roh-dah with 117 BP + STAB to kill dragons? hell yes!
 
Gardevoir
Item: Gardevoirite
Bold
HP:252/Defense:252/Speed:4
Calm Mind
Will-o-wisp/Wish
Psyshock/Psychic
Moonblast/Hyper Voice

This is my favorite Pokemon, and I'm trying to make her work. A straight up Timid 252/252 Sp Atk/Speed set doesn't work, she's too slow and frail, but after playing with Satan, my little Meowstic in the Maison, I noticed that he tanks physical hits like a champ with decent investment in his defenses. Mega Gardy is slightly less bulky, but by putting 252/252 into HP and Defense with a Bold nature, she gets 340/251/306 bulk, more than enough to set up a calm mind and obliterate her foes. Her speed can be offset with a nice Baton Passer, as her bulk will allows her to take a hit. What do you guys think? Her Special attack is at 366 when unboosted, while speed is 237 with just four EVs. Do you think this has merit, or should the EVs, nature, or moves ought to be switched around?
 
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