Gen 5 Tier Speculation

C

Chillarmy

El problemo?
Member
Alrighty y'all, with our growing experience in the Generation 5 metagame, I figured its about time we made a tier list. I will be included OU and Ubers, and maybe substantial changes in BL, UU, and NU if I get the time. Of course, everyone is entitled to make a point or opinion for or against any decision in the tier list. Note: As said in the title, this is UNOFFICIAL! This isn't Pokebeach's or Smogon's tiers, it is purely speculation. On that note, lets go into the tier discussions!

Uber

Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys-A
Dialga
Garchomp
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Latias
Latios
Lugia
Manaphy
Mew
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Salamence
Shaymin-S
Zekrom

OU

Aerodactyl
Agiruuda
Azelf
Blissey
Breloom
Bronzong
Burungeru
Chansey
Cloyster
Denchura
Ditto
Doryuuzu
Dragonite
Dusclops
Dusknoir
Electivire
Empoleon
Erufuun
Espeon
Forretress
Gengar
Genosect
Gigaiath
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heatran
Hihidaruma
Hippowdon
Infernape
Jalorda
Jirachi
Jolteon
Kabutops
Kerudio
Kingdra
Kojondo
Kyuremu
Landlos
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Meloetta
Metagross
Nattorei
Ninetales
Ninjask
Omastar
Ononokusu
Politoed
Porygon2
Rankurusu
Roobushin
Rotom-H
Rotom-W
Sazandora
Scizor
Shaymin
Shandera
Skarmory
Smeargle
Starmie
Suicune
Tentacruel
Terrakion
Tyranitar
Ulgamoth
Vaporeon
Victini
Virizion
Voltolos
Zapdos
Zoroark
Zuruzukin

BL

Celebi
Cobalon
Flygon
Rotom-C
Rotom-F
Rotom-S
Snorlax
Swampert
Togekiss
Tornelos
Weavile

UU

Roserade
Umbreon

Please don't hassle me for sprites, this took long enough.
Anyways, discuss! What possible changes could be made. What changes should be kept. Who did Chillarmy stupidly forget to put up? Discuss!!
 
RE: Unofficial Generation 5 Tier List

I think that the ice dragon should be OU or BL. Not Uber. I also think that Salamence will be OU instead of Uber. The new gen V Ubers would totally outclass him in the Ubers. Next, I think that the Rotom forms should be moved up to at least BL. Since they lose their ghost typing and gain the type of the form it is, I think they will be more powerful and more used then we expect. Finally, I think that Celebi should be moved up to OU. I think that it is a little too powerful for BL.
 
RE: Unofficial Generation 5 Tier List

I would make the title "Gen V Tier Speculation," just to clear things up. IMO, we should just go with smogon's, but w/e...

As for the actual list, Doryuuzu is so easy to counter with priority, and so easily walled by Bronzong, Breloom, and Gliscor, that it shouldn't be uber. Kyuurem, Meloetta, and Victini shouldn't be uber. I don't think Mence is too bad anymore, nor is Shaymin, but I can see those being tested.
 
RE: Unofficial Generation 5 Tier List

Swampert could go into Borderline, there are way too many Grass Types that set up on him nowadays.
Most of my other suggestions are just "Fanboy Opinions", so the list looks pretty solid. Feel free to add on, anyone.
 
RE: Unofficial Generation 5 Tier List

garchomp, lati@s and salamence are all being used in standard play now, shouldn't they be moved to ou
 
RE: Unofficial Generation 5 Tier List

@JacobeTheElf: I put Salamence in Uber beacuse of its new ability Overconfidence. With one DD, it can easily sweep teams in OU. Celebi gets OHKO'd by Ulgamoth, Denchura, and other bug types. As for your other suggestions, I will look into them.

@6-Dimension: Victini should be Uber because of V-Generate (when it comes out). I mean, 180 BP? STAB? I think thats worth Uber. Meloetta has really good stats, and ancient song keeps the opponent guessing. As for Kyremu, I think that maybe you're right, he should be OU.

@Shadow Lugia: I totally agree. With Jalorda and Erufuun, not to mention Shandera and others with Energy Ball, Swampert should be BL.

@Hero of Sinnoh: Yes I will be moving Kyremu to OU

@Aj1234119: Mence has Overconfidence, LAtios and Latias are too good with CM or Scarf sets in Standard play. Garchomp is also too good in Snadstorm as a Scarf or SD set. Note: this is still just speulations for the REAL tier list.
 
Victini is not Uber material. I used to ladder 4th Generation Ubers tons and had excellent success at it. I've continued my success with 5th Generation Ubers. I may not be on the leaderboard, but that's because I'm not too concerned about my rating. My teams losses primarily are as a result of extreme hax. Victini's movepool is good, but certain not to the point of being broken when taking stats into account.

Moving on to Meloetta, it also has ok stats with good Special Attack and Special Defense. Its speed is not great though. While it is 90, 100 really is a big difference because of the amount of Pokemon that have 100 Speed. If it learned recover, then it might be uber because of the ability to set up Calm Minds with it and have good enough defenses. Sure it can Rest, however, Sleep Talk is no longer available for it. Psychic attack types in general aren't extremely useful because of all the Pokemon that resist it, especially in Ubers. Here are some notable Pokemon in OU that resis it Scizor, Bronzong, Azelf, Metagross, Skarmory(though it gets Thunderbolt to deal with it) , Forretress, plus Tyranitar has immunity to it. You could use Close Combat to get rid of Tyranitar, though it'd be easy to see coming plus Meloetta's special movepool is much better than physical anyway. You'd also be killing one move slot just to get Step Forme.

Cloyster is not in your list so I'd suggest putting it in OU because of the Shell Smash Skill Link combo. It can take apart multiple Pokemon quite easily unless the opponent is running something that blocks Icicle Spear and Rock Blast and isn't heavily damaged by its water attack.

Omastar and Kabutops are also not in your list. With Politoed likely being OU or at least BL, they will easily take advantage with Swift Swim. This will be just like where rain got to be very powerful in UU in the past except now it will happen in OU. Omastar has the potential to do a Shell Smash then proceed to sweep with Surf, Ice Beam, and a filler move.

Rotom H and Rotom W won't get used much because one of their main uses was a spin blocker which can no longer work since all Rotom formes lost their Ghost Typing. Only the regular Rotom has goes typing, however, its stats are inferior to the various formes stats. I'd say they belong more in the UU or possibly even NU tier. Shandera will be replacing it if Shandera doesn't get voted uber. Spiritomb usage may or may not go up. It gets the benefit of no weakness and having Pressure which is welcomed on stall teams.

You probably won't like this post, but I am just trying to be truthful. I hope you don't take offense to it.
 
I think you brought up some good points; this is just a speculation thread, so I don't think anyone will take offense to some minor changes. And yeah, I was just about to bring up that point about Cloyster, but DE beat me to it. :)
 
Viciniti is OK. Honestly I really don't think it's all that people think it is. If anything Sazandora needs spotlight. That thing is a top tier OU threat. It has extremly powerful Draco Meteors and a good movepool in general. With Life Orb or Choice Specs it can do an extreme amount. It also is an adequete stall breaker.

Mark, Rotom-W is a great Pokemon this generation. This gives the Specs set a bit more potentional with it's powerful STAB Hydro Pump. This way no matter how special defencive a Heatran can be now they will never like switching in. A water resistence means it can beat Suicune, Vaporeon, Starmie, and Gyarados with relative ease.

Meloetta is actually on my line of decent and good. The step form boasts a very strong Close Combat but outside of that and 1 or 2 more non-STAB moves lacks alot. A CB set would be pretty nice when paired with a Pursuiter like Tyranitar. Once Shandera or other ghosts are gone it could absolutely reck. It's voice form is actually pretty cool. After a Calm Mind Psycho Shock can deal a large amount of pretty much everything. Outside of that though it's in trouble. I perfer Rankurusu over it.

Speaking of Rankurusu it is an amazing Pokemon. It has more bulk than people give it credit for. It has a nice ability and a great overall stats. Although it has downfalls it is no doubt a pretty large problum to alot of teams.


On some other notes Shandera is not uber material. Although it does work quite well in ubers it works a bit worse in OU. It hasn't been bothering me much at the least. Doryuuzu if anything is a problum. The Balloon set is probubly the best one out there. A great deal of power and decent defence means it can prove a great threat in sandstorm.

On a side note Deoxys, Shaymin-S, Darkrai, and Inconsistent need to be banned.
 
@DE: I take no offence at all. I love getting other peoples opinions, and you gave amazing reason and thorough understanding, and you did convince me about Victini and Meloetta. Yes, I forgot Cloyster, and I never really thought of Kabutops and Omastar but that makes perfect sense as well. However, I must disagree with you about Rotom-W and Rotom-H. As PDC said, Rotom-W now makes a good Choice Specs sweeper, especially in the rain. Maybe a set of Hydro Pump, Thunder, Trick, and a filler. Also, Rotom-H now gets STAB Overheat, scoring huge damage.

@PDC: I agree with Victini and Meloetta. Rankurusu is also a complete beast, especially in TR. Sazandora is very good, but it isn't unmanigable. The Dark type gives some unwanted weaknesses, such as Fighting and Bug. Sure, these can be dealt with, but Sazandora will not enjoy taking a Guts boosted Mach Punch from Roobushin. Shandera, as you said, is not uber. I think it will fit quite comfortably into OU, making a Scarfkiller or a Balloon set, but it isn't good enough to be Uber. Skymin and Darkrai definetly deserve to be banned, but Deoxys dies to priority. Inconsistent dies to Roar, Whirlwind, Haze, and Unaware. I've never had a huge issue with it, although its very annoying.
 
Regarding Victini, the negative effects, primarily speed and special defense, will leave it a sitting duck. Assuming Victini OHKO's anything in Ubers, possibilities include:

Arceus Grass/Bug LOL, I guess Ice is Plausable in Ubers
Mew? Just because of lack of bulk
Shaymin-S, which is faster than it. Air Slash for 60% flinch rate, I'd try if I was backed into a wall.

Darkrai outspeeds it, DV and DP, easy.

V-generate just plain doesn't hit dragons well, especially Palkia, Garchomp outspeeds and EQ's it, no, there's just not enough reason for The Victory Pokemon to be in Ubers. Granted, lots of stuff will fall to Victini in OU, but like Jirachi, everything has counters, Heatran, for example.

One question tho...Inconsistant, what Pokemon are we referring to? Wobby?
 
Inconsistent is a new ability in B/W. During each turn, the pokemon gets +2 in a random stat and -1 in another random stat. Off the top, Octillery, Smeargle, and Bibarel get Inconsistent along with their pre-evolutions. So you have Smeargle BPing mega stats to its teammates, and Octillery and Bibarel spamming Sub and protect until they have so much defence you can't break the sub. Then they sweep. Its very annoying, but not uncounterable.
 
@sgtspontaneous : You can't use how a Pokemon woul do in Ubers to say why it shouldn't be Uber. Ubers is not meant to be balanced. It consists of the Pokemon too powerful for standard play.

To counter Inconsistent you could always use Punishment. It does more damage the more your opponent has raised their stats.
Smogon Move Description said:
Base Power of this move = 60 + (20 * # of power ups), up to a maximum of 200. Also, stat drops do not affect the Base Power
Click to expand...

Weavile and Infernape are capable of the move, though it'd be better for Infernape to use CC against Smeargle and Bibarel. So for each turn the power of Punishment could go up a potential 40! Weavile gets the STAB Bonus as well and very high Speed for first strike unless their Speed was raised.
 
Salamence should move down to OU,It just cannot perform with the likes of stealth rocks as well as against Kyurem who will probably or already is capable of learning ice Shard.Besides that,Rayquaza does his job to a greater extent.

Shaymin Sky may need to move down as well,it is weak to stealth rocks and ice shard due to kyurem.Not to mention Ice Sharding Arceus.It just cannot compete.
 
The problem with Shaymin-S moving down is that Serene Grace makes it too broken for OU. Air Slash will haa 60% chance of flinching the opponent, not to mention Shaymin-S is only outpaced by Mewtwo, Ninjask, and Deoxys. Its Special Attack is also quite high which gives it an edge that Togekiss doesn't have. Seed Flare has an 80% chance of lowering the opponent's Special Defense 2 levels. It also possess the powerful SubSeed combination which can be abused with Air Slash making it near impossible to ko unless it is done in one hit with an ice move. Stealth Rock weakness is not a reason to exclude a Pokemon from Ubers. Look at Ho-Oh for example. Unless you can do 50% to Ho-Oh, it will just Roost then suddenly its at full health and not getting OHKO'd by anything other than rock attacks. Ho-Oh can blow through OU easily.
 
Salamence isn't what we're going to really worry about this generation. Garchomp, Doryuuzu, Manaphy, Latios, and others are our problums. A bunch of Pokes will be moved up through testing so at least we'll get a break. Also Mark, Punishment is quite a mediocre move. After a possible evasion boost it will literally be useless.
 
What do you guys think of Sableye? Priority Sub, Recover, Taunt, WoW, and Confuse Ray. I use it in Ubers, and its a great surprise to friend Groudon along with other sweepers. I personally believe he should be in OU, simply as an annoyer and a statuser. It is also helped by Night Shade.
 
I usually find that gimmick Pokemon (if that's what you'd like to call Sableye) never survive very often in higher tiers. General annoyance Pokemon just never seem to "fit" onto your team like another properly calculated member would.
 
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