Gen 5 Tier Speculation

[BreadFat]

The reason I mentioned Azumarill is because I have a tendency to use her a bit Now I see where you're coming from. Doryuuzu won't necessarily stop a stall team, but I can see how it will almost always mess up some kind of a an offensive team since they can't really afford to have one of the counters. And Blake, sure you can get creative sometimes. But when you're using those sets, is it because it helps your team? Or is it really for Doryuuzu? CB Breloom is also overshadowed by most of it's other sets IMO.

Right now I'm not completely sure on whether Doryuuzu should be OU or Uber right now- I feel that he's resting right on the border. There obviously needs some testing to be done.

 

[Pride]

Aboma easily gets in on an unboosted EQ or better yet, an SD, and actually gets the KO with HP fire.

Modest Scarf Aboma - 311 Atk vs 156 Def & 361 HP (70 Base Power): 202 - 238 (55.96% - 65.93%)

Ninetails gets in on X-scissor or an SD, and with max speed and a +Nature, will always outspeed Doryuuzu, and will ko with flamethrower.

Or it could take a rock slide, earthquake, or return on the switch.

With Balloon, Magnezone can easily get in on an SD, or even after you lose a pokemon. HP fire will OHKO Doryuuzu, as it is forced to use Rock slide or X scissor on you.

Modest Magnezone - 394 Atk vs 156 Def & 361 HP (70 Base Power): 254 - 300 (70.36% - 83.10%)

Magnet Rise is necessary. And very situational as Magnezone cannot take a hit before it traps Doryuuzu.

a CB Breloom can get in on a SD, and always get the KO with mach punch.

394 Atk vs 156 Def & 361 HP (60 Base Power): 326 - 386 (90.30% - 106.93%)

Tech. doesn't exist yet, so that's less then a 50% chance ohko and a good chance you just let your opponent get in something really dangerous (Salamence, Latios, Landlos, etc.)

Balloon is a situational check but one that can work very well, Heatran and Magnezone can both function this way.

 

[Limitless]

Well with moves that boost 3 stats and Pokemon with power creep stats stall is a bit diminished. Also, many offensive teams are rain based or have Mach Punch on them so that should take care of Doryuzuu.

It is diminished if you don't know how to play stall. Kevin Garrett is still successfully using stall in gen 5.

Also, most offensive teams on the Smogon ladder are not rain based teams, nor do they have Mach Punch. I'd say around 3/10 of my battles on the ladder are against rain teams, while the rest are split between offensive and stall. Mach Punch is really only on Roobushin in offensive teams, of which can't OHKO Doryuuzu.

Personally, Doryuuzu as long as you have your own weather. For example, If you run say, Scarf Abomasnow. Aboma easily gets in on an unboosted EQ or better yet, an SD, and actually gets the KO with HP fire. Scarf politoed can also change the weather, and get in and ko with nearly anything on its set. Ninetails gets in on X-scissor or an SD, and with max speed and a +Nature, will always outspeed Doryuuzu, and will ko with flamethrower. a CB Breloom can get in on a SD, and always get the KO with mach punch. Balloon magnezone is probably my favorite counter to Doryuuzu. With Balloon, Magnezone can easily get in on an SD, or even after you lose a pokemon. HP fire will OHKO Doryuuzu, as it is forced to use Rock slide or X scissor on you. There's plenty of counters to Doryuuzu, you just have to get creative.

The problem with thinking "creatively" is that often times those Pokemon are one-hit-wonders. Also, those types of Pokemon are often over-shadowed by other more "overused" sets. Therefore, if you were to make a creative set that was going to beat Doryuuzu, often times that's all it's going to do. Thus, you just wasted a Pokemon slot.

 

[PDC]

Stall is still just as good. Stall may actually be better because of the new defencive toys the averedge stallers were given with. Like Pride showed you none of those Pokemon can 100% counter it. Anyway I would like to bring something new up. Rankurusu is a Pokemon that was very overlooked in the beggining but is possibly one of the best stall breakers ever. As me and Pride already discussed it has a great ability and stats in general. Discuss!

 

[Kevin Garrett]

Stall has actually received a boost this generation. With the addition of all these new offensive Pokemon, it hurts offensive teams more because there is so much more they are weak against. The most successful teams right now are stall and balanced teams because they can consistently get you wins. Team previews also makes it much easier to play defensively since there are no surprises from your opponent's team.