Ruling Giratina Lv.X vs. Dusknoir Lv.X

DragonMasterMcNick

DragonMasterMcNick

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If Dusknoir Lv.X is knocked out by darkness lost, does it become a stadium or does it go into the lost zone?

The wording on Giratina Lv.X is:

If any of your opponent's pokemon would be Knocked Out by damage from this attack, put that pokemon and all cards attached to it in the Lost Zone instead of discarding it.

And Dusknoir:

If Dusknoir is your active pokemon and would be Knocked Out by damage from your opponent's attack, you may discard all cards attached to Dusknoir Lv.X and put Dusknoir Lv.X as a stadium card into play instead of discarding it. This counts as Dusknoir being Knocked Out and your opponent takes a prize card...If another Stadium card comes into play or if Dusknoir Lv.X is discarded by the effect of any attacks, Poke-Powers, Poke-Bodies, Trainer, or Supporter cards, return Dusknoir Lv.X to your hand.
 
Here is how it will work. You put Dusknoir Lv.X as a stadium, and put the others in the Lost Zone.

Since Dusknoir Lv.X's text says that you were to play it as a stadium, then you would play him as a stadium. The rest of the cards are supposed to get discarded. Since Giratina Lv.X says that all cards attached/below the KO'ed Pokemon gets sent to the Lost Zone, you would only put the other cards in the Lost Zone.

It works like this. Your Pokemon loses all of its HP. Then, check if you can use any Poke Powers/Poke Bodies. Then, the last thing you do is discard the Pokemon.
 
Gliscor said:
Here is how it will work. You put Dusknoir Lv.X as a stadium, and put the others in the Lost Zone.

Since Dusknoir Lv.X's text says that you were to play it as a stadium, then you would play him as a stadium. The rest of the cards are supposed to get discarded. Since Giratina Lv.X says that all cards attached/below the KO'ed Pokemon gets sent to the Lost Zone, you would only put the other cards in the Lost Zone.

It works like this. Your Pokemon loses all of its HP. Then, check if you can use any Poke Powers/Poke Bodies. Then, the last thing you do is discard the Pokemon.
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This is incorrect. When attacking: you deal damage, preform all effects of the attack, then check for KOs. You deal the 30 damage to Dusknoir, then the effect of Giratina comes into play, because it would be KOed, everything is sent to the Lost Zone.
 
No, it does not. Even though Gengar is sent to the Lost Zone, his power is still activated due to the effect of getting KOd.
 
Soul Seeker said:
Can a Pokemon with an Unown G Tool attached to it be sent to the Lost Zone by Giratina's Darkness Lost ?

Thanks in advance =)
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Lou Cypher said:
Unown G avoids being sent to the Lost Zone.
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Kronar said:
This is incorrect. When attacking: you deal damage, preform all effects of the attack, then check for KOs. You deal the 30 damage to Dusknoir, then the effect of Giratina comes into play, because it would be KOed, everything is sent to the Lost Zone.
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Are you 100% sure about that? Both of the effects have the activation of when Dusknoir would be sent to the discard pile, and if I remember right, if two cards have the same activation time, then the owner of the affected card would chose what order the effects take place.
 
No Kronar is right. The going to the lost zone part is a piece of Giratina Lv.X's attack, which is resolved before Dusknoir can do anything about it.
 
Don Pianta said:
Are you 100% sure about that? Both of the effects have the activation of when Dusknoir would be sent to the discard pile, and if I remember right, if two cards have the same activation time, then the owner of the affected card would chose what order the effects take place.
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Not quite. The activation time for Dusknoir and Giratina Lvx may seem the same time, but its slight not.

As Kronar said, all effects of a attack must be complete before a KO takes place. As putting all cards to the lost zone is apart of the effect, dusknoir doesn't have time to activate its power.

In the rule book it says under order of attack: f) Do whatever the attack says. Do any damage first, then do any other effects, and finally Knock Out and Pokémon that have damages greater than or equal to their Hit Points.

EDIT: Ah. The reason there hasn't been a offical ruling yet is because they currently compare the japanese version of the ruling.
 
PokemonSteve said:
The reason there hasn't been a offical ruling yet is because they currently compare the japanese version of the ruling.
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I think the confusion is caused by the wording on Giratina Lvl X. It indicates that the card is sent to the Lost zone if it would be KO'd by the attack. In other words during the attack phase if there equal to or more damage counters on Giratina then it had HP, then the effect of sending the Poke to the Lost Zone would kick in. Clearly this would happen before the actual KO and hence Dusknoir's power would not kick in.

This is not the case if we look at the wording on the Strafe Giratina which says if the Pokemon is KO'd by this attack then put it in the lost zone. In this case we have reached the final point in the attack phase "f", IMO once the KO is determined then both Ectoplasm and the Lost Zone re-route are both activated simultaneously and per the metarule the owner of the card desides in which order to resolve the effects. I'm probably wrong but I think there's a distinction to be made between the two cards.
 
Okay notice how Duskinoirs text said " if It would be knocked out " that means before the pokemon is actually knocked out its poke power takes effect. lets say duskinoir lv X has 20 hp left and gets hit my Giratina lv xs attack it WOULD be knocke dout but instead of being knocked out right away its power is activated and everything is sent to teh discard pile and lv X noir is a stadium. Read more carefully.
 
EastbayTrainer said:
Okay notice how Duskinoirs text said " if It would be knocked out " that means before the pokemon is actually knocked out its poke power takes effect. lets say duskinoir lv X has 20 hp left and gets hit my Giratina lv xs attack it WOULD be knocke dout but instead of being knocked out right away its power is activated and everything is sent to the discard pile and lv X noir is a stadium. Read more carefully.
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But wouldn't this mean that it would come down to the whether or not the affect of the attacker or the defender would go first? The Giratina Lv. X says to send it to the Lost Zone. The rules say that you need to finish the effects of the attack and since the attack has to be finished with in order to go to the K.O. wouldn't it mean that the lost zone would take preference over his effect?
 
You are right. Eastbay Trainer is just mistaken.
Kronar said:
When attacking: you deal damage, preform all effects of the attack, then check for KOs. You deal the 30 damage to Dusknoir, then the effect of Giratina comes into play, because it would be KOed, everything is sent to the Lost Zone.
Click to expand...
 
Okay, THE ANSWER IS DUSKNOIR LV X BECOMES A STADIUM. At the point Dusknoir Lv X's HP is reduced to zero, Ectoplasm would activate. The rest of the cards go to the lost zone. Here is a ruling.
== ECTOPLASM (Dusknoir Lv.X - DP:Stormfront)

Q. What happens to Dusknoir Lv.X when it is KO'd by Giratina Lv.X's "Darkness Lost" attack? Does it go to the Lost Zone, or does "Ectoplasm" allow it to become a Stadium?
A. When Dusknoir Lv.X would be Knocked Out, it becomes a Stadium instead of being discarded. Since it is not going to the discard pile, it is not sent to the Lost Zone. (Feb 12, 2009 PUI Rules Team)
 
What do you know? Kronar just made a bad ruling.

My apologies to you Eastbay.
 
What can you say? It happens, when something like this is asked, and there will obviouly be a Compendium ruling on it, the answer can never be 100% certain. I was just giving my interpretation of how it would be ruled, I was wrong.

Let this be a lesson to all, if it has not been officialy ruled/announced, take it with a grain of salt.
 
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