News Giratina 'Pokemon Card Gym' Promo!

It's a shame to see greninja have so many issues. It's probably the best deck ever made to also be budget friendly in the XY era.

edit: it isn't super budget friendly, but it is insanely cheap compared to other decks.
 
professor layton said:
It's a shame to see greninja have so many issues. It's probably the best deck ever made to also be budget friendly in the XY era.

edit: it isn't super budget friendly, but it is insanely cheap compared to other decks.
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Agreed. The fact that it has had so much success in both Standard and Expanded and can be built for under 100 dollars is incredible. It'll be sad to see it be put to rest, honestly.

-Asmer
 
Asmer said:
Which means they lose out on Faded Town unless they split Stadiums, which isn't consistent anyway.
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Running a split Stadium line has at times been the norm, and has been a "thing" as of what... a few months ago? Last Year? Just not the default deck building position. That being said there is also the redundant nature of things; Greninja BREAK decks already counter Abilities thanks to "Shadow Stitching" on Greninja (XY: BREAKpoint 40/122).

I hope I don't sound like I'm just trying to nitpick; yes I think this new Giratina promo will be bad for Greninja BREAK and Trevenant BREAK decks. Yanmega BREAK as well if it is still seeing serious play. It is just that in the case of Greninja BREAK it already had two good Stadium cards vying for deck space (Faded Town and Rough Seas) and can shut down Abilities on the opponent's turn via attack, so having to replace one or both of the other Stadium cards with Silent Lab means unneeded overlap except for Giratina.

Hypothetically Trevenant BREAK could work in Silent Lab as well; it would mean restructuring the deck so that it wasn't entirely (or possibly at all) reliant upon Dimension Valley. Do I think that will happen? Possibly, but more as someone not wanting to move on than keeping Trevenant BREAK a top performer. Yanmega BREAK might actually be able to weather this, though; if you're using a build that speeds it into play then after a few turns Forest of Giant Plants isn't necessary (still helpful, but not necessary).

Any other BREAK Evolutions that would really feel this?
 
I actually know a couple of people whose strategy relies solely on Greninja BREAK. I'D LOVE to get a few copies of this into a deck and use it against them >:)
 
Otaku said:
Running a split Stadium line has at times been the norm, and has been a "thing" as of what... a few months ago? Last Year? Just not the default deck building position. That being said there is also the redundant nature of things; Greninja BREAK decks already counter Abilities thanks to "Shadow Stitching" on Greninja (XY: BREAKpoint 40/122).

I hope I don't sound like I'm just trying to nitpick; yes I think this new Giratina promo will be bad for Greninja BREAK and Trevenant BREAK decks. Yanmega BREAK as well if it is still seeing serious play. It is just that in the case of Greninja BREAK it already had two good Stadium cards vying for deck space (Faded Town and Rough Seas) and can shut down Abilities on the opponent's turn via attack, so having to replace one or both of the other Stadium cards with Silent Lab means unneeded overlap except for Giratina.

Hypothetically Trevenant BREAK could work in Silent Lab as well; it would mean restructuring the deck so that it wasn't entirely (or possibly at all) reliant upon Dimension Valley. Do I think that will happen? Possibly, but more as someone not wanting to move on than keeping Trevenant BREAK a top performer. Yanmega BREAK might actually be able to weather this, though; if you're using a build that speeds it into play then after a few turns Forest of Giant Plants isn't necessary (still helpful, but not necessary).

Any other BREAK Evolutions that would really feel this?
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The only problem with Shadow Stitching is that it doesn't change the situation for Greninja BREAK. Remember that Shadow Stitching only lasts until the end of your opponent's next turn, which means you will not be able to use Giant Water Shuriken on your next turn. I will say that splitting a 2-2 Stadium is fairly okay in certain decks (Greninja BREAK can be one of them), but also consider that when you drop either Faded Town or Rough Seas, you lose out on Damage and Survivability respectively. That said, if this card does become a factor in Expanded (I doubt Standard will need this going forward, considering we now have a GX system), I have a feeling Greninja BREAK decks will either need to start teching in Silent Lab and lose one of the two previously mentioned, or will have to play more Hex Maniac (or play it period, depending on the builder).

Besides Frogs, Trees could be okay, but I think most Tree Players like Dimension Valley a lot. Still, I can't see why that deck couldn't utilize Silent Lab. After all, you lose a turn of set up (maybe) for the ability to shut down Giratina-Promo/Shaymin-EX/Whatever other Basic with a good ability? That seems like a good trade-off to me. Yanmega BREAK would probably not be too happy for the same reason it isn't happy with Garbodor. That said, Yanmega itself can do a good amount of damage to any Giratina with a tool attached, so that may be a way to play around it. Besides that, I can't think of another BREAK deck that poses a threat at the moment that would be affected by this. If anyone else can, post it here.

Still, as an overall, this promo, much like the Magearna promo, seems to be targeted towards 1-2 decks at most (Magearna was meant to smack Rainbow Road around), and I honestly find that disappointing. I would like to see more promos with a bit more versatility in the upcoming months, but that's just my opinion.

And no worries. You aren't nitpicking. You always have solid points when you post things. xP

-Asmer
 
So, what are you guys gonna put this in besides rainbow road.

And forget Greninja, as long as This card exists, yanmega break is 100% dead
 
Wow, I was just looking at the list of Breaks to see what others might be affected by the Greninja/Trev countermeasure and realized that there are a lot of Breaks and nearly all of them come from Pokémon with useful or niche abilities.
The semirelevant Breaks that are affected are: Zoroark, Yanmega, Carbink, Bronzong, Yveltal, Pyroar, Wobbuffet, Raticate, Omastar, Marowak, Clawitzer, Starmie, Lugia, Delphox, Noivern, Golduck, Nidoking.
 
sandsmash23 said:
Wow, I was just looking at the list of Breaks to see what others might be affected by the Greninja/Trev countermeasure and realized that there are a lot of Breaks and nearly all of them come from Pokémon with useful or niche abilities.
The semirelevant Breaks that are affected are: Zoroark, Yanmega, Carbink, Bronzong, Yveltal, Pyroar, Wobbuffet, Raticate, Omastar, Marowak, Clawitzer, Starmie, Lugia, Delphox, Noivern, Golduck, Nidoking.
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I 100% forgot about Carbink. It'll shut down safeguard, which is actually quite nice for decks like M Mewtwo Y (who can also use Giratina as an attacker, btw) and M Gardevoir.

...guess that technically answers @BraviaryBoi 's question, even if putting it in M Mewtwo Y isn't the best idea (then again, deck isn't doing all that great right now, anyway... >< )

-Asmer
 
I watched the pack openings of these on YouTube. But the packs are BREAKThrough, BREAKPoint, and Fates Collide. We expect too much for Roaring Skies, but it's not.
The promo is a game-changer at least
 
Asmer said:
The only problem with Shadow Stitching is that it doesn't change the situation for Greninja BREAK. Remember that Shadow Stitching only lasts until the end of your opponent's next turn, which means you will not be able to use Giant Water Shuriken on your next turn.
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I thought I made that point in my own post. xp What I was getting at is that Silent Lab adds less to Greninja BREAK decks because they already can counter many Abilities, namely those that need to function on the other player's turn... like Hoopa-EX and Shaymin-EX. Silent Lab would only help with Giratina-EX and a few other Abilities that matter during your own turn. Well, few others likely to matter anyway; in the general card pool you'll have stuff like Carbink and its Safeguard, but Greninja BREAK won't care about that.

Anyway, so when you add Silent Lab to something like Yanmega BREAK or Trevenant BREAK, the only issue is that those decks already have a pretty important Stadium card, but they don't shut down Abilities in anyway so at least it won't be redundant coverage. Sorry I was unclear. ^^'

Asmer said:
...or will have to play more Hex Maniac (or play it period, depending on the builder).
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Okay, my turn to miss the point; how does Hex Maniac help deal with an Ability that shuts down other Abilities? o_O

Asmer said:
Besides Frogs, Trees could be okay, but I think most Tree Players like Dimension Valley a lot. Still, I can't see why that deck couldn't utilize Silent Lab. After all, you lose a turn of set up (maybe) for the ability to shut down Giratina-Promo/Shaymin-EX/Whatever other Basic with a good ability? That seems like a good trade-off to me.
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So if I am reading this correctly, we are basically in agreement here. I mean either you deal with losing the [C] Energy discount from Dimension Valley, you deal with having to go back to just regular Trevenant (XY) which still means two Energy to attack even while Dimension Valley is in play, or I guess you hope you can take out Giratina quickly/accept the hit to the deck's win ratio. I mean there isn't usually something that cores a OHKO against a Darkness Weak, 130 HP Basic in Trevenant BREAK decks, is there?

Asmer said:
Yanmega BREAK would probably not be too happy for the same reason it isn't happy with Garbodor. That said, Yanmega itself can do a good amount of damage to any Giratina with a tool attached, so that may be a way to play around it.
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Yanmega BREAK shouldn't have a problem with Silent Lab in the same way it has a problem with Garbotoxin because... oh! You mean that Giratina will be a problem for Yanmega BREAK the same as Garbodor is. Obviously I realized that while typing and could have left it out, but I figured an example of how easily I have misread some of the comments helps demonstrate why I am trying to be so thorough in clarifying it all. ;) Giratina has 130 HP, which is awkward for a OHKO even if Giratina has a Tool other than Fighting Fury Belt attached... right? The best bet is to fall back onto whatever complimentary attacker is being run with Yanmega BREAK, or if the opponent is still slapping Tools on stuff, to just remain as Yanmega without BREAK Evolving; if you're not using Barrier BREAK then all Yanmega BREAK adds is +30 HP. 140 > 110, but a lot of decks either still hit or still miss the OHKO. I think. >.>

Asmer said:
And no worries. You aren't nitpicking. You always have solid points when you post things. xP
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Hope you still feel that way since, as you can see, I kind of had more questions/comments.
 
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BraviaryBoi said:
On a conpletely unrelated note, I don't think I've ever seen @Otaku misspell a word anywhere, not just here lol.
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Oh, it happens. This one was just because I was in a hurry, but there have been times I have accidentally saved errors into my spellchecker. Oops. XD
 
Otaku said:
I thought I made that point in my own post. xp
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Knowing me and my ability to miss things, you probably did. xD

What I was getting at is that Silent Lab adds less to Greninja BREAK decks because they already can counter many Abilities, namely those that need to function on the other player's turn... like Hoopa-EX and Shaymin-EX. Silent Lab would only help with Giratina-EX and a few other Abilities that matter during your own turn. Well, few others likely to matter anyway; in the general card pool you'll have stuff like Carbink and its Safeguard, but Greninja BREAK won't care about that.

Anyway, so when you add Silent Lab to something like Yanmega BREAK or Trevenant BREAK, the only issue is that those decks already have a pretty important Stadium card, but they don't shut down Abilities in anyway so at least it won't be redundant coverage. Sorry I was unclear. ^^'
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The Silent Lab thing was basically only in response to:

Greninja BREAK decks already counter Abilities thanks to "Shadow Stitching" on Greninja (XY: BREAKpoint 40/122).
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It does add redundancy, yes. That said, if Giratina is to hit the board, it means that you lose out on Giant Water Shuriken, which was the whole purpose of me mentioning Silent Lab. Granted, I still thinking playing Silent Lab over something like Faded Town is a bad idea, but it was just something I realized is all.

As far as the other two decks go, I actually wouldn't mind seeing Yanmega BREAK making Silent Lab techs. Being able to slow down any deck that can accelerate in to Garbo-Lock and what may eventually be this seems like a good idea for a deck that seems to be semi-fragile. I think Trevenant BREAK should be fine, but then again, I don't know just how important the Item Lock aspect of that deck truly is (I would assume pretty important, however).

Okay, my turn to miss the point; how does Hex Maniac help deal with an Ability that shuts down other Abilities? o_O
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It doesn't. I derped hard here. xD

So if I am reading this correctly, we are basically in agreement here. I mean either you deal with losing the [C] Energy discount from Dimension Valley, you deal with having to go back to just regular Trevenant (XY) which still means two Energy to attack even while Dimension Valley is in play, or I guess you hope you can take out Giratina quickly/accept the hit to the deck's win ratio. I mean there isn't usually something that cores a OHKO against a Darkness Weak, 130 HP Basic in Trevenant BREAK decks, is there?
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Yes, that is correct (about being in agreement). And I don't think they run anything that hits that high.

Yanmega BREAK shouldn't have a problem with Silent Lab in the same way it has a problem with Garbotoxin because... oh! You mean that Giratina will be a problem for Yanmega BREAK the same as Garbodor is. Obviously I realized that while typing and could have left it out, but I figured an example of how easily I have misread some of the comments helps demonstrate why I am trying to be so thorough in clarifying it all. ;) Giratina has 130 HP, which is awkward for a OHKO even if Giratina has a Tool other than Fighting Fury Belt attached... right? The best bet is to fall back onto whatever complimentary attacker is being run with Yanmega BREAK, or if the opponent is still slapping Tools on stuff, to just remain as Yanmega without BREAK Evolving; if you're not using Barrier BREAK then all Yanmega BREAK adds is +30 HP. 140 > 110, but a lot of decks either still hit or still miss the OHKO. I think. >.>
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The bolded, yes. Granted, Garbodor has a lot more uses in general, but not every deck can run Garbodor. That said, there are decks that can run Giratina and not Garbodor with positive effects, even if only to interact with BREAK decks. I don't know how effective it would be, but then again, I haven't tested any of this, either.

Hope you still feel that way since, as you can see, I kind of had more questions/comments.
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It's not a problem, yo. If anything, this helps me think/re-think new strategies and ideas for decks/concepts/etc., so it's always beneficial. Also, I'm sure others love reading a bunch of information/ideas about new cards/concepts, so I don't see why this would be an issue (so long as it doesn't turn in to an argument or something silly like that). :D

-Asmer
 
I'm seeing way too many people here saying this kills Greninja. It doesn't. Since when did Garbodor decks destroy it? Did people think it was making top 8 in fields full of Yveltal/Garb and other ability lock decks by sheer luck? The opponent already had more than enough time to set up the garbage man before a BREAK hit the field and all this does is allow a lock to be set up faster. This is certainly more splashable, but doesn't make the deck completely useless.
 
normanc said:
I'm seeing way too many people here saying this kills Greninja. It doesn't. Since when did Garbodor decks destroy it? Did people think it was making top 8 in fields full of Yveltal/Garb and other ability lock decks by sheer luck? The opponent already had more than enough time to set up the garbage man before a BREAK hit the field and all this does is allow a lock to be set up faster. This is certainly more splashable, but doesn't make the deck completely useless.
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Agreed.

It definitely does not kill Greninja BREAK. The idea that a card 100% shuts down a deck is a very foolish idea. What it does do, however, is make Greninja BREAK a harder deck to play (assuming things go according to plan with keeping Giratina on board).

It's the same argument as Volcanion vs Garbodor (I think I mentioned that earlier). A lot of people started writing off Volcanion-EX as a non-top tier deck because of this ridiculous notion that "Garbodor = GG". Then, it showed up once at Orlando, twice at Fort Wayne, and twice at London...and that's just for Masters. After that, the talk of Volcanion-EX being a potential threat starting to spring up again. As you said, Garbodor didn't stop Greninja from topping. It didn't stop Volcanion from topping, either.

This card is merely another tool that people can potentially utilize if they have issues against BREAK decks. If not, it'll probably be passed off as another promo that people will have sitting in their collection/trade binders. Either way, I still find it fun to talk about.

-Asmer
 
What makes this card so good against Greninja break is that it is yet another card that allows yet another deck or two to create a positive matchup vs Greninja which means that Greninja will do worse against more of the field. It's not so much as having this card beat Greninja entirely as it is making more decks have ways to beat Greninja which will definetly have players staying away from greninja
 
I think people are hyping this card up a little too much. For me, particularly in Standard, it's only going to go in a deck that has a auto-loss to a BREAK deck with abilities (does anything actually auto-lose to Greninja?). Otherwise, I'm not sure I'd waste a space for it. It's a little different in Expanded, since some decks really do brick hard against Trevenant.
 
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