Expanded Greninja BREAK

[The Golden Mewtwo]

Hello! I am going to Greensboro for the regional championships. I can't wit to go! I am planning on playing Greninja BREAK because I dropped my previous expanded deck into the water (Don't ask why I thought it was a good idea to bring it on the boat) and I needed a cheap deck to recover. I ended up getting the cards for Greninja and so I decided to play it. I will post a decklist soon. for now tell me what you guys think about Greninja right now

Right so here is my list:

Pokemon:

3 Greninja BREAK BKP
3Greninja BKP
4 Forgidier BKP
1 Frokie BKP
2 Frokie FLI
1 Espeon EX BKP
1 Alolan Muk SUM
1 Alolan Grimer (doesn't matter which set)
2 Starmie EVO
1 Staryu (doesn't matter which set)
1 Tapu Lele GX GRI
1 Ditto Prism Star FBL

Total: 24

Supporters:

2 Professor Sycamore
4 N
3 Guzma
3 Cynthia
1 Teammates
1 Ace Trainer

Total: 14

Items:

1 Dowsing Machine (I can't afford Computer Search)
1 Field Blower
4 Dive Ball
2 Evosoda
3 Ultra Ball
2 Super Rod

Total: 15

Stadiums:

1 Brooklet Hill
1 Silent Lab

Total: 2

Energy:

4 Splash Energy
6 Water energy

Total: 10


Grand Total (drumroll please): 60!

3 Frokie-
I only run three Frokie because I think you only need three to do work and it's an extra deck space. In the beginning of the game, you only need one Frokie, and you might need a second later on from Splash energy. As long as you Water Duplicates T2, your good.

1 Alolan Muk-
Alolan Muk is really good for expanded. It locks off Giratina (which locks Greninja BREAK off) and many other things that could be harmful) it shuts off all basic pokemon' abilitys, making it really hard for a lot of decks. It can shut of Volc Prism and Ditto Prism but it's okay if you are careful.

That's all! Tell me what you think! Thanks!

P.S. It has been edited four times

 

[ICEdaddy]

I played it for a while, including expanded. When it works, it's amazing, it's all about setting up in time.
I've seen versions coming and going and in the current state I see 2 main versions for the slots that are up for grabs:
a. bursting balloon variant (3-4 of those)
b. Evosoda variant (3-4 of those)

The following cards I've tried and found disappointing:
Cyrus prism star (you would rather have consistency)
The 70 HP Froakie (the paralyzing one can be useful stall beginning and end game)
Octillery line...clogs your bench
FLI Greninja...ability lock is just so good, can't live without it

The following cards are helpful:
Gladion (there is always something missing since the deck list is tight, grab a Froakie, water energy, 'ninja break, etc.)
Ace Trainer...a must you are always behind in the beginning and this is super disruptive.

This is one version I have played that I was happy with (although I go back and forth a bit):
##Pokémon - 19

* 1 Espeon-EX BKP 117
* 1 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 137
* 4 Froakie PR-XY XY138
* 1 Staryu BKP 25
* 4 Frogadier BKP 39
* 1 Starmie EVO 31
* 4 Greninja BKP 40
* 3 Greninja BREAK BKP 41

##Trainer Cards - 31

* 1 Gladion CIN
* 1 Computer Search
* 1 Rescue Stretcher
* 3 Ultra Ball
* 3 Bursting Balloon
* 3 Brooklet Hill
* 2 Ace Trainer
* 4 Dive Ball
* 4 Cynthia
* 1 Super Rod
* 4 VS Seeker
* 1 Field Blower
* 3 N

##Energy - 10

* 4 Splash Energy BKP 113
* 6 Water Energy CL 90

Consider swapping Cynthias for Sycamores and an Evosoda or 2 for balloons, but Dive ball is really good and makes evosoda less needed.
A 2nd super rod is also helpful, especially if you start to run sycamores, perhaps swapping it out for Stretcher.

Good luck and pray to the Gods of Good Set Up.

 

[The Golden Mewtwo]

I see what you are saying. In your list I would advise muk/volc/2nd starmie/ditto prism just because they all have their uses. Muk helps against basic ability decks. Volc makes the trevanant match more favorable. I think Starmie is very important because 6 basic energy could whiff and you really need your water in Greninja. I like evosoda it's helps be more consistant. I like the idea for a 2nd rod, I will probably swap that out with stretcher. I also see that you have no Guzma in your list, which would be fine if you played Volc but you do not have volc so I would play 1. I am deciding whether I should play Alolan Ninetales since a lot of items are important in this deck.

 

[JumpluffTCG]

Can I ask why Alolan Muk is ever useful in a deck that has arguably the best ability lock move in the entire game? If it's a tech against promo Giratina then I would just recommend Silent Lab because you can use it T1 to lock Shaymin EX/Tapu Lele GX (like a pseudo Hex Maniac) and Alolan Muk is a horrible card to have in Greninja because of its 4 retreat cost.

In that vein, I also strongly suggest you shying away from Volcanion Prism. The reason why a retreat cost greater than 1 is horrible in Greninja is that a smart player will just Guzma/Lysandre/Counter Catcher up your high retreat mon while you can't move it out of the active because you yourself don't run any Float Stone and you play a total of 1 Guzma. This breaks your Shadow Stitching lock and lose you turns of using Giant Water Shuriken giving your opponent ample time to get back on track and run you over. Running Float Stones is also suboptimal, since you really need to maximize consistency in Greninja. Like 90% of what makes Greninja Break so strong is the ability to N + Shadow Stitching while getting rid of any threat your opponent tries to establish with Giant Water Shuriken. You shouldn't play anything that will actively hurt you in building that win condition. So that means the Alolan Muks and Volcanion and Alolan Ninetales need to be slashed.

I'm also very scared for you when you decide to only play 3 Froakie, 1 Brooklet Hill, and 8 total energies. You say that as long as you get the turn 2 Water Duplicates that you're good. Yes, but you're assuming you'll get that to happen. When you skimp on the Brooklet Hills that's just a greater chance you'll start a lone Froakie and lose turn 2. When you skimp on energies that's a greater chance you'll evolve the active into a Frogadier, play Cynthia, and not draw energy (and have everything fall apart thereafter). Play a max count of Splash Energy; they're super important. Play 3 Brooklet Hill to really make sure you can get 2 Froakies out your first turn.

I'm not trying to sound mean. I'm saying all this as someone who's first deck was Greninja and has since spent a lot of time with the deck.

 

[ICEdaddy]

Can I ask why Alolan Muk is ever useful in a deck that has arguably the best ability lock move in the entire game? If it's a tech against promo Giratina then I would just recommend Silent Lab because you can use it T1 to lock Shaymin EX/Tapu Lele GX (like a pseudo Hex Maniac) and Alolan Muk is a horrible card to have in Greninja because of its 4 retreat cost.

In that vein, I also strongly suggest you shying away from Volcanion Prism. The reason why a retreat cost greater than 1 is horrible in Greninja is that a smart player will just Guzma/Lysandre/Counter Catcher up your high retreat mon while you can't move it out of the active because you yourself don't run any Float Stone and you play a total of 1 Guzma. This breaks your Shadow Stitching lock and lose you turns of using Giant Water Shuriken giving your opponent ample time to get back on track and run you over. Running Float Stones is also suboptimal, since you really need to maximize consistency in Greninja. Like 90% of what makes Greninja Break so strong is the ability to N + Shadow Stitching while getting rid of any threat your opponent tries to establish with Giant Water Shuriken. You shouldn't play anything that will actively hurt you in building that win condition. So that means the Alolan Muks and Volcanion and Alolan Ninetales need to be slashed.

I'm also very scared for you when you decide to only play 3 Froakie, 1 Brooklet Hill, and 8 total energies. You say that as long as you get the turn 2 Water Duplicates that you're good. Yes, but you're assuming you'll get that to happen. When you skimp on the Brooklet Hills that's just a greater chance you'll start a lone Froakie and lose turn 2. When you skimp on energies that's a greater chance you'll evolve the active into a Frogadier, play Cynthia, and not draw energy (and have everything fall apart thereafter). Play a max count of Splash Energy; they're super important. Play 3 Brooklet Hill to really make sure you can get 2 Froakies out your first turn.

I'm not trying to sound mean. I'm saying all this as someone who's first deck was Greninja and has since spent a lot of time with the deck.

What he said. The value of the deck is constant ability lock. 40 damage isn't much, but ability lock buys you time to get out your Greninja breaks, and then you wreck them. Most decks fall apart once they are locked turn after turn.

 

[The Golden Mewtwo]

So what would you do without Volc to counter Trev? I could cut Ninetales line and add the float stones. Muk is good just because it has the lasting effect that doesn't get countered by field blower or another stadium. I could replace one Muk with Gladion, which bosts consistency. I think a 3 frokie line is enough because most Greninja BREAK lines rely a lot on a T2 water duplicates anyway. Adding more cards to replace volc seems blocky and unconsistent. I like the splash energy I just don't have a lot of space in the deck.

 

[ICEdaddy]

Yes, I admit, Trev is a rough matchup. It's resurgence is not ideal for Greninja as Greninja needs a fast start and needs to burn it's tools turn one to have a chance at winning vs. Trev. I haven't faced much Trev in the current era (it had faded away for a while), but I would imagine a Guzma or two would help (usually Greninja rarely needs Guzma). For this match, 'ninja's 2nd attack is key, including putting energy back in hand so you can do 80 and 2 hit KO. In this case, you are focusing heavily on getting 2 Greninja's up, if possible. And not fill your bench so you don't get pecked away 30 damage at a time, and just try to evolve "naturally" to start hitting for 80 consistently and don't bother with Shadow Stitching.

 

[The Golden Mewtwo]

I'd rather play volc with one guzma than have to search out a supporter when you get locked. It is easier to get Pokémon out than supporters thanks to dive ball, Ultra Ball, etc. It doesn't matter much that your opponent gets to choose the switch, as long as two Trevs aren't out, in that case I admit Volc becomes mostly useless but that's why I play 1 Guzma. I hate the retreat but as long as Volc doesn't get active it's fine. Debating on float stone. I think this is what I will do:

-1 Alolan Muk
-1 Alolan Vulpix
-1 Alolan Ninetales
-1 Bursting Balloon

+2 Float Stone
+2 splash energy

 

[AuraJackle]

Volcanion prism hardly helps against trev they will just put another trevenent out

 

[The Golden Mewtwo]

In that case, look for Guzma. Volc can also help against other decks

 

[ICEdaddy]

Float stone is really not needed. Greninja has free retreat (as does Staryu), and the others are all one energy retreaters, which makes a simple water attachment your retreat cost. I would use Guzma rather than float stones, if you are worried about facing a lot of Trev (which you probably should).

 

[JumpluffTCG]

Float stone is really not needed. Greninja has free retreat (as does Staryu), and the others are all one energy retreaters, which makes a simple water attachment your retreat cost. I would use Guzma rather than float stones, if you are worried about facing a lot of Trev (which you probably should).

What's the most current list we're dealing with here? If the Muk's still dragging down this deck then yes the OP absolutely needs to put Float Stones in deck but I tried to argue this was suboptimal.

Also as a note while on the brief discussion on Trevenant, I suggest cutting the VS Seekers for additional supporters. The reason for this is two-fold. For any matchup in general, starting a hand with the VS Seeker but no supporter (and since this is your opening turn you have no supporters in discard yet) is more fatal for Greninja than most other decks. And unlike most expanded decks, you don't have supporters that serve non-drawing functions (I mean you play some Guzma but exclusively to break Trev item lock and I'm going to let that slide). It's not like a Volcanion deck that has to choose between playing Guzma, Blacksmith, or drawing cards, for example. You play supporters almost exclusively for the purpose of drawing cards, and for the most part it doesn't matter if it's an N or a Sycamore or a Cynthia in the early game (you just want to hit your Frogadier and water energy). Cutting out VS Seekers also helps against the Trevenant matchup too, since you have fewer items in your deck so you end up with more playable cards overall.