Greninja Discussion

TuxedoBlack

TuxedoBlack

Old School Player
Member
Already, Blastoise-BKEX is great deck; but, I can also see how this new Poké, Greninja, can be used quite effectively in the deck too (despite the fact it is also a stage 2):

41-greninja.jpg


Thoughts?

Changed to Greninja Discussion~Camoclone
 
RE: Blastoise New Best Poké Friend?

The damage output is far too low for Blastoise, never mind the fact that it's a Stage 2.
Keldeo already does +20 per Water, so +30 for Greninja is a negligible difference.

It's not going to work in Blastoise.dek. Maybe other things, but definitely not Blastoise.

On top of which, lol using 1-Energy attackers in Blastoise
 
RE: Blastoise New Best Poké Friend?

Not even close. The Ability will be something fun and rogue people play entirely separately. I love the Ability, but I don't see it with Blastoise.
 
It's not going to be an asset to Blastoise, but as it's own deck, it could be an interesting idea. Remember this card? It saw a decent amount of play. It is important to note the format wasn't overrun with 180 HP Basic EX's; however, I think this card does have some merit. Plus with the Catcher errata, Bench-sitters in general become a lot more viable. I think a more important question to ask is what card or rogue deck needs an additional damage output. Kingdra / Greninja would be a fun league deck of sorts.
 
The idea I've seen with this is Greninja / Sableye, which relies on Sableye to get Rare Candies for Greninjas and Energy Retreival for the damage output. I like it, but I don't think it will be that great.
 
Greninja has some decent synergy with Empoleon (Dark Explorers) in order to draw prizes alot easier with the help of Water Shuriken providing solid bench spread in the process although it's probably already got a great partner with Leafeon (Plasma Freeze) being a Stage 1 instead of a Stage 2 to get around Blastoise / Keldeo variants with Energy Crush although it won't get you very far in other matchups unfortunately.

Greninja / Sableye seems like it could be okay for bench spread shenanigans especially If you manage to throw in a 1-0-1, 2-1-2, or 2-0-2 line of Dusknoir (Boundaries Crossed) to manipulate damage counters with Sinister Hand, although for that kind of build I'd definitely go 3-2-3 or 4-2-4 Greninja with 3-4 Sableye (Dark Explorers), 4 Rare Candy, and 4 Energy Retrieval.
 
blargh257 said:
The idea I've seen with this is Greninja / Sableye, which relies on Sableye to get Rare Candies for Greninjas and Energy Retreival for the damage output. I like it, but I don't think it will be that great.
Click to expand...

That seems like a really fun deck. Not particularly competitive, but fun.

I still think Empoleon / Greninja will be a good deck. Empoleon's damage output is fairly week, but with Bangle and Water Shuriken, you can get off a couple 1 shots. Even if Attack Command w/ Bangle + Water Shuriken doesn't 1HKO your opponent, you can just Water Shuriken them next turn to finish them off. People aren't going to waste their Catchers to KO your Greninja, so you probably only need to run a 2-0-2 line or 2-1-2 of Greninja.

Kingdra / Greninja might also be decent... If Mr. Mime didn't exist. Even Dragon Vortex has good synergy with Water Shuriken.
 
Four Arms said:
I still think Empoleon / Greninja will be a good deck. Empoleon's damage output is fairly week, but with Bangle and Water Shuriken, you can get off a couple 1 shots. Even if Attack Command w/ Bangle + Water Shuriken doesn't 1HKO your opponent, you can just Water Shuriken them next turn to finish them off. People aren't going to waste their Catchers to KO your Greninja, so you probably only need to run a 2-0-2 line or 2-1-2 of Greninja.
Click to expand...

I almost forgot about Silver Bangle, that actually wouldn't be too bad in Empoleon since that gives me 3 card slots in my deck to replace Catcher with. I still think Empoleon might be more viable with a Stage 1 partner (similar to Donphan Prime before HGSS got rotated out) instead of a Stage 2 partner like Greninja but the power that Water Shuriken provides in combination with Attack Command and Silver Bangle seems pretty solid for the most part.
 
Oh, I see what you're saying now. I guess it does hurt, but worse case, you can just knock it out with Water Shuriken.

Now that I really think about it, Kingdra / Greninja would be really fun. It's basically 50 damage for every energy you discard per turn, keeping in mind that at the end of that turn, you can just shuffle all of them back into your deck. With Bangle, you only need to discard three energies to OHKO an EX. Of course it would definitely be a pain to set up at least three Greninja and and and a Kingdra.
 
The ability is phenomenal. Unblockable 30 damage snipe without an attack? Yes please! I'm not sure what this can fit into considering that it would take up a lot of space, but I would be surprised if this ended up being bad. If you can find a decent attacker to pair it with, this thing could be amazing.
 
Well... it says no where that you may only use 1 ability per turn.. so why not play it as a quad?
 
Greninja could potentially be used with Kyurem EX from PLB or Mewtwo EX, to give it some attackers, while your ninjas sit on the bench and dole out a butt-ton of damage every turn. A few DCEs and some Candies, and this deck could be sitting pretty with Empoleon as top Rogue decks. I was thinking something like:

4-2-4 Greninja
3 Mewtwo EX
1/2 Kyurem EX

Kyrurem can soak up damage and is a nice outrager for the deck, and Mewtwo is just a good ol' beat-stick.
Thoughts?
 
Blah said:
The ability is phenomenal. Unblockable 30 damage snipe without an attack? Yes please! I'm not sure what this can fit into considering that it would take up a lot of space, but I would be surprised if this ended up being bad. If you can find a decent attacker to pair it with, this thing could be amazing.
Click to expand...

I can definitely see this paired with Empoloen, giving it a 1 energy attack on top of the amazing ability makes a decent partner. it would give Empoleon much need damage as it would now make OHKO an EX viable, difficult, but viable.
 
My idea was running this with Plasma Kyurem with Bangles or Laserbanks (up to personal preference really). Weaken things with Frost Spear/ Water Shuriken and if you see an opening, Blizzard Burn for a big kill. An exact decklist though, I'm still not sure yet, but I got a feeling that can work wonders.
 
I'd be nervous about this in Empoleon. You have limited Water energies, and just Bangle is really all you need to 2shot. Maybe late game if Empoleon runs out of Pokemon to bench, but I suppose it could always bench Exeggcutes. Maybe just a really thin line of it; I honestly haven't tested Empoleon yet.
 
Cortel II said:
Blah said:
The ability is phenomenal. Unblockable 30 damage snipe without an attack? Yes please! I'm not sure what this can fit into considering that it would take up a lot of space, but I would be surprised if this ended up being bad. If you can find a decent attacker to pair it with, this thing could be amazing.
Click to expand...

I can definitely see this paired with Empoloen, giving it a 1 energy attack on top of the amazing ability makes a decent partner. it would give Empoleon much need damage as it would now make OHKO an EX viable, difficult, but viable.
Click to expand...

Do you think it'd be better to pair Empoleon with Lugia EX instead of Greninja since it's a Basic instead of a Stage 2? You can easily rely on Exeggcute for Diving Draw while discarding the rest of your Water Energies with Water Shuriken sure, I just think the deck would be much faster with Lugia EX cause it can help Empoleon score prizes easier that way.
 
Card Slinger J said:
Cortel II said:
I can definitely see this paired with Empoloen, giving it a 1 energy attack on top of the amazing ability makes a decent partner. it would give Empoleon much need damage as it would now make OHKO an EX viable, difficult, but viable.
Click to expand...

Do you think it'd be better to pair Empoleon with Lugia EX instead of Greninja since it's a Basic instead of a Stage 2? You can easily rely on Exeggcute for Diving Draw while discarding the rest of your Water Energies with Water Shuriken sure, I just think the deck would be much faster with Lugia EX cause it can help Empoleon score prizes easier that way.
Click to expand...

I don't know, Lugia is just doesn't seem to fit with Empoleon, between the need 4 energy to attack and requiring at least 1 to be plasma just seems like a lot. In that situation I could only see Empoleon being a 2-1-2 line and pretty much just for DD. And at that point you may as well run speed Lugia with Deoxys ect. But to the greninja discussion I could see running a 3-1-3 empoleon and a 3-1-3 greninja, run 4 energy retrievals and maybe a couple of superior E-retrievals. Discard 1-2 waters a turn, to do 60 plus attack command to ko everything, them having DD To cycle through your deck and keep the energy and retrievals going.
 
Card Slinger J said:
Do you think it'd be better to pair Empoleon with Lugia EX instead of Greninja since it's a Basic instead of a Stage 2? You can easily rely on Exeggcute for Diving Draw while discarding the rest of your Water Energies with Water Shuriken sure, I just think the deck would be much faster with Lugia EX cause it can help Empoleon score prizes easier that way.
Click to expand...

If anything, Lugia should be paired with Greninja so that you can use Water Shuriken to set up KO's easier, and Plasma Gale for a definitive OHKO on anything.
 
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