Gun Control - Your stance, views, and recent developments

Without guns we would've lost the revolution against England. If we lost the revolution against England then people like Thomas Edison would never have had the chance to shape modern life as we know it. If modern life never had a chance to develop like it did then there would be no pokemon. Just saying.

Also fyi the ancient Romans and Greeks were more violent than we are. Guns have nothing to do with morality they're just tools, meaning that they can be used for good or evil. Although I suppose background checks and such wouldn't hurt.
 
Okay fine I'm stepping into this.

Pokequaza said:
Ah well, theft is not banned without any reason either. But hey, theft does not steal, people do. Then why is theft not legalised?
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Here you are making a terrible comparison. Theft is not equivalent to guns. Theft is equivalent to homicide, which is illegal, and guns used in homicide are equivalent to whatever is used by people to commit theft, which is generally knives and OH HEY LOOK! GUNS!

Haunted Water said:
Point I'm trying to get across is, eventhough guns are meant to kill, if they are banned solely on that, then they'll have to ban cigarettes and other items.
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Cigarettes kill their user, generally over the course of dozens of years. They do also affect the people around the smoker, but not as badly and smoking is illegal in many public places anyway. Guns kill other people who did not make a poor choice, or get into a poor habit, and are totally innocent. The reason that this thread came up is because schools, which should be (need to be) a gun-free zone, are unfortunately sometimes not-and unlike cigarettes it only takes a single time.

The Pikachu Mafia said:
Without guns we would've lost the revolution against England. If we lost the revolution against England then people like Thomas Edison would never have had the chance to shape modern life as we know it. If modern life never had a chance to develop like it did then there would be no pokemon. Just saying.
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Guns are weapons of war. Obviously the pacifists will say that they have no use whatsoever, but whatever your viewpoint on war, guns are meant for killing people. Therefore their legitimate (I won't go so far as to say good) use is for war. Weapons of war are not for civilian use or for use on civilians. We dropped nuclear bombs on Japan to end WWII, should we be selling nuclear bombs to people on the street corner and saying "Oops" when they go off but not doing anything about it? What's the difference? Nuclear bombs kill more people? The arguments that branch off of that are so numerous and I hope well known that I'm not going to list them.


Also fyi the ancient Romans and Greeks were more violent than we are. Guns have nothing to do with morality they're just tools, meaning that they can be used for good or evil. Although I suppose background checks and such wouldn't hurt.
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The ancient Romans and Greeks did not have guns. Obviously guns are not the cause of all malicious intent within human nature. Nobody is stating that. We know that guns are tools that violent people use to hurt others, but if these guns are denied to these violent people then almost certainly less of them will commit such atrocious actions, and if or when those actions do occur they will probably be in a lesser magnitude. Also, the ancient Greeks are mainly portrayed as vicious in their wars, and some of the city-states like Athens were probably about as death-less in their peace times as America today is, and maybe more. The Romans are viewed that way for the same reason (wars) and because of the Coliseum, a place meant entirely for combat. Perhaps we should bring back the Coliseum, albeit with voluntary participation. It would give people a nice release for their negative emotions and return some Darwinian evolution back into mankind, something its sorely lacking. Only the stupidest would volunteer and via cause and effect die. OH WAIT THIS IS BASICALLY MIXED MARTIAL ARTS OR BOXING BUT YOU DON'T STOP WHEN THE OTHER GUY IS KNOCKED OUT AND MAYBE YOU GET A SLIGHTLY SHARPER IMPLEMENT. DOESN'T THIS SOUND FUN??
 
Dark Void said:
Also fyi the ancient Romans and Greeks were more violent than we are. Guns have nothing to do with morality they're just tools, meaning that they can be used for good or evil. Although I suppose background checks and such wouldn't hurt.
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The ancient Romans and Greeks did not have guns. Obviously guns are not the cause of all malicious intent within human nature. Nobody is stating that. We know that guns are tools that violent people use to hurt others, but if these guns are denied to these violent people then almost certainly less of them will commit such atrocious actions, and if or when those actions do occur they will probably be in a lesser magnitude. Also, the ancient Greeks are mainly portrayed as vicious in their wars, and some of the city-states like Athens were probably about as death-less in their peace times as America today is, and maybe more. The Romans are viewed that way for the same reason (wars) and because of the Coliseum, a place meant entirely for combat. Perhaps we should bring back the Coliseum, albeit with voluntary participation. It would give people a nice release for their negative emotions and return some Darwinian evolution back into mankind, something its sorely lacking. Only the stupidest would volunteer and via cause and effect die. OH WAIT THIS IS BASICALLY MIXED MARTIAL ARTS OR BOXING BUT YOU DON'T STOP WHEN THE OTHER GUY IS KNOCKED OUT AND MAYBE YOU GET A SLIGHTLY SHARPER IMPLEMENT. DOESN'T THIS SOUND FUN????
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Greece and Rome were still more violent in the ancient days. If they had guns, then more people would be dead then than now (despite the lower population back then). Also I never took the Coliseum into account when making my original analysis, I was thinking more along the lines of how Rome was literally founded upon one man killing another (see Romulus) and how Greece (well Thebes to be exact) would mourn when someone is born and rejoice when someone dies. I have no Idea on weather or not you're agreeing with me (maybe that would be due to my headache... idk) but Greece and Rome were less moral than we were, that's not saying much though.

I'd love to chat all day about those ancient powers, but they have little relevance to this conversation. So I'll finish by saying this, we can run all the background checks and pass all the gun laws we want, but it's not going to stop truly violent people from getting firearms and killing others. In the end most of the "gun laws" that our government wants to pass is going to hurt the average American more than criminals.
 
The Pikachu Mafia said:
Greece and Rome were still more violent in the ancient days. If they had guns, then more people would be dead then than now (despite the lower population back then). Also I never took the Coliseum into account when making my original analysis, I was thinking more along the lines of how Rome was literally founded upon one man killing another (see Romulus) and how Greece (well Thebes to be exact) would mourn when someone is born and rejoice when someone dies. I have no Idea on weather or not you're agreeing with me (maybe that would be due to my headache... idk) but Greece and Rome were less moral than we were, that's not saying much though.

I'd love to chat all day about those ancient powers, but they have little relevance to this conversation. So I'll finish by saying this, we can run all the background checks and pass all the gun laws we want, but it's not going to stop truly violent people from getting firearms and killing others. In the end most of the "gun laws" that our government wants to pass is going to hurt the average American more than criminals.
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Were they more violent? Well, if you solely rely on movies for your knowledge about the classics you might think they were, but no, they were not more violent. They fought wars, but so do we, we do it every single day. I hope you are also familiar with the fact that the story about Romulus and Remus is a myth. We also watch violent movies these days, that does not make us less moral or more violent. They did not have the technology we have today, but that does not make them stupid, at least not more stupid than mankind is today. If you really want a better understanding of the times back then, I suggest reading some of the books that have been left. Most philisophical works from back then refer to their society a lot, it gives you a better insight in their daily lives. Seneca is a good example, although he may be the personification of irony himself, he narrates on a very basic level, and gives a good overview of the thoughts and morals of Rome during its culmination.
 
No offense to anyone, but you don't seem to grasp violence in ancient days well enough. Yes, Greece and Rome were violent (I'm Greek and good in history) but we're also talking about a different age. Back then, no things such as human rights existed. Hell, the Colloseum was a place where people died for fun. But you cannot compare. Their idea of human life value was different, therefore they were more violent, but this doesn't mean they were warmongers. And it doesn't really have any relevance to the topic.
Irrelevant: TPM, Thebes didn't rejoice when someone died. Sparta was the one who honored those fallen at war and genrally had war in high regard. And there was no city where birth was a reason to mourn. In fact, it was something great everywhere.
 
Pokequaza said:
Were they more violent? Well, if you solely rely on movies for your knowledge about the classics you might think they were, but no, they were not more violent.
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I haven't been relying on movies at all, in fact I don't watch that kind of stuff. Instead I'm referring to the years I've spent studying these cultures in school and yes I've read Herodotus, Livy, Socrates, and all those other guys too so I know what I'm talking about.

Anyways can we get back on topic please?
 
My stance:
Banning automatic weapons, that protects my family.. Let criminals have theirs that shoots my family. Because obviously criminals care about the law.
Gun Control = Facedesk of logical thinking.

EDIT:
Since some people have no respect for my accent in Utah... I'll fix it DV
 
Recently it was pointed out to me the stupidity of the line "when guns are criminal, only criminals will have guns" The person said "Well, Duh" "When speeding is criminal, only criminals will speed", "When drunk driving is criminal, only criminals will drunk drive"
 
Is there a gun control plan with a Democrat and Republican working together, and recently came up with a gun plan still in development? Or am I mistaken?
 
Politics. Instead of going with what was right and using their brains, they went with what their label says and what party they were from. It was too strict for some Reps, and too loose for some Dems.
 
It's all who gets money because of what. Guns will never be as enforced as they should be, but at the same time, there are so many different views on this that I feel like it's silly to discuss it anyways.
 
lol he was banned.

But seriously,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

http://libertycrier.com/world-news/why-switzerland-has-the-lowest-crime-rate-in-the-world/

Come on...stats dont lie. What will banning weapons/pistols do? Create an anarchy. Open up the gates, no one will want to cross a person because you know that they could be packing some firepower.
 
r3skyline said:
lol he was banned.

But seriously,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

http://libertycrier.com/world-news/why-switzerland-has-the-lowest-crime-rate-in-the-world/

Come on...stats dont lie. What will banning weapons/pistols do? Create an anarchy. Open up the gates, no one will want to cross a person because you know that they could be packing some firepower.
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Another stat that you might find interesting is that America has the most people killed via gun related crime than any other country. And that's stupid. Really, really stupid. All you guys have to do get background checks, but the NRA are too stupid to realise that this would help lower the amount of people getting killed like this. Switzerland can do it because they are at the right size for their system, and that getting actual disciplined training is different than some redneck just picking up a rifle.
 
r3skyline said:
Come on...stats dont lie. What will banning weapons/pistols do? Create an anarchy. Open up the gates, no one will want to cross a person because you know that they could be packing some firepower.
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:-------D
To carry a loaded firearm in public or outdoors (and for an individual who is a member of the militia carrying a firearm other than his Army-issue personal weapons off-duty), a person must have a Waffentragbewilligung (gun carrying permit), which in most cases is issued only to private citizens working in occupations such as security.

Guns may be transported in public as long as an appropriate justification is present. This means to transport a gun in public, the following requirements apply:

The ammunition must be separated from the gun, no ammunition in a magazine.
The transport does not need to be direct but needs a valid purpose :
For courses or exercises hosted by marksmanship, hunting or military organisations,
To an army warehouse and back,
To show the gun to a friend or a possible buyer
To and from a holder of a valid arms trade permit,
To and from a specific event, i.e. gun shows.
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Gooby pls. Don't tweak the stats so they seem like they support your cause. That's not good. You are talking like normal people carry guns in Switzerland - they don't. At. All.
 
That's not the point. Not every gun owner in America owns a rifle that can burst fire. They, while on duty, have it in their home. Come on. Don't try to tweak it to support your cause/fight.

Oh and btw, I've never killed or shot up at any public event/area. Just because a select few do it does not mean we should ban all weapons/pistols. That's very idiotic and generalization. Which I thought this country were against. But from people who are afraid and have some insecurity about themselves and those who own firearms, we all of a sudden have to take immediate action to get rid of all weapons.

Ill be damned if ill let the government take away my rights to own what I want, and to enjoy hunting and targeting. I have wasted so much time in the army defending the supposed freedoms to only have ignorant people try to take away what I have earned? No, I do not play that way. If any person wants to ban any type of weapon, they should have to serve a minimum of 4 years with at least one 9-12 month deployment overseas. Then they can have a say in whether or not a freedom/well deserved right can be stripped from a US citizen.
 
Might I add that the NRA supports background checks, Blui. Check your facts. And skyline is incredibly correct.
Also, Teal, your analogy involving Switzerland makes no sense.
 
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