Help Me With Party for Empoleon and Garchomp

Chocolate Death

Chocolate Death

I should be the Water Trial Captain now!
Member
Hey, so after a long hiatus, i'm returning to this site and competitive play. I'm still pretty dumb when it comes to it, only knowing a little bit. However, I won't let that stop me. I want to make a team revolving around Empoleon and Garchomp (my 2 favorite Pokemon) for me to use competitively. Now, let me clarify now so I don't have to later: I want party setups for the games, not Showdown. I'd like to have these Pokemon in my AS copy and whatever game comes next.

I don't know too much about what to look for in teams, so I've often followed Smogon, Pokedex #251 in Japanese, or stat setups from Showdown to build parties. So, please, bear with me and maybe give me some pointers? Thanks.
 
Do you want an offensive team or a defensive team? What is your play style?
By not building the team for a simulator, you mean you want sets that aren't requiring hard to get moves and abilities? Or is it something else?
 
Basically, something I can create in 6th gen without requiring moves exclusive to events. Aside from that, any kind of ability or breeding requirements is fine. And, I'm honestly not too sure what I play better? I tend to go more offense in most games and in the story playthrough, but I do like to have a few for support or defense.
 
First of, I would look on the weaknesses of Empoleon and Garchomp.
Mainly their mutual weaknesses. It's just so happen that your favorite Pokemon are bulky and offensive plus they have great type synergy. Empoleon covers Ice, Dragon and Fairy while Garcomp covers Electric.
I think Choice Specs can fit well for Empoleon with Hydro Pump and Flash Cannon to cover Garcomp's weaknesses. On the flip side, you can use Assault Vest Empoleon which hits less but can switch much easier to Special attacks.
I think Choice Scarf Garchomp is great. You can outspeed Mega Lopunny and Mega Manectric which threats your Empoleon.
What do you think so far?

Edit: Ice Beam for Empoleon.
 
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I'm sorry but...

I LOVE IT!!

Seriously, I do. Also, I always wanted an excuse to use Assault Vest tbh. Lol so it works out wonderfully! So, what about their abilities and moves? I know the'll be obviously offense, but what should I give them? I mean, I'm guessing Ice Beam, Flash Cannon, Hydro Pump or Scald (stab), and Protect for Earthquake? And for Garchomp, my guess is Dragon Claw, Rock Slide, Earthquake, and Fire Fang or Slash?
 
Glad you like it! Empoleon wouldn't be able to use Protect with AV, so you need another attacking move. Grass Knot can be good for the last spot to cover bulky water types as a last resort.
For Garchomp I would use Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Rock Slide/Stone Edge and one of the following for the last spot: Iron Head/Fire Blast.
Iron Head is great against Fairies and Fire Blast hits Ferrothorn a little harder than Fire Fang while avoiding being harmed by its barbs.
Empoleon's normal ability would be fine and Garchomp's Rough Skin is the best ability imo so you can switch Garchomp in and do a little damage while taking damage from contact moves that are not so strong against Garchomp such as Rapid Spin when your opponent's trying to get rid of your hazards.

Now you basically need the following roles in order to make an effective offensive team:
- Stealth Rock/Spikes setter- So your opponent will pay for any switches he is making and for making easier time for your Pokemon to OHKO.
- Set-Up sweeper - So you can sweep the opponent's team at the end or in mid-game.
- Stallbreaker/Wallbreaker - So you can handle with stall and extreme bulky Pokemon from the start.

What other Pokemon do you have in mind that you think can fill these roles and that you like?
 
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I don't know why I put Protect on there right after explaining to a few friends that Assault Vest prevents non-damaging moves from being used. Must've been my midnight brain. It's odd, I felt like Grass Knot would have worked, but I felt like I would've been setting him up wrong, so I initially put Aqua Jet on there and then changed it to Protect.
As for Garchomp, I think I'll go with Stone Edge and Fire Blast. I'm gonna be honest, I always thought it was stupid for a Garchomp to have a special attack, but I failed to realize in the past that attacks that use the weaker stat can be used defensively or to handle threats. Also I'm glad I get to use Rough Skin Garchomp. I really am. I love it! Makes me imagine Garchomp with skin that's like thorny devil scales.

As for other Pokemon, I tend to be pretty biased for Sinnoh Pokemon. (I hope I used biased right). I already have a Forretress with Spikes, Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes, and Gyro Ball. I just don't think I have the right item on it, tbh. The closest I have to a Set-Up Sweeper is my Dragonite that is Baton Passed by an Agility Lopunny or Swords Dance Celebi. It didn't work too well. Is Clefable any good for that?
 
Aqua Jet can save you in some rare situations when your opponent is really low on HP and you need the priority.
Forretress is a great Pokemon to use SR and Spikes. Leftovers is the best item I can think about.
Other 4th Gen Pokemon that can work well as hazard setters are Mamoswine and Froslass.
Mamoswine with Focus Sash can destroy Gliscor, Dragonite, Landorus-T and Mega Sceptile while also having a priority move.
Froslass with Focus Sash is fast and can use Taunt to shut down opposing hazard setters plus using Destiny Bond to take on set up sweepers.
Clefable is really good with Garchomp and Empoleon. Calm Mind sweeper is not a bad option. Clefable is weak to Poison and Steel which are resisted by Empoleon and Clefable also immune to Dragon hits to switch in instead of Garchomp. Clefable also resist Fighting types which threats Empoleon.

Clefable set for level 50 battles:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight

220 Def EV's making Mega Lopunny's Return to only 3HKO while 36 S.Def are making Mega Manectric's Thunderbolt to only 3HKO. It also works on other Pokemon which are pretty rare in WiFi battles such as Latios and Kyurem-B.

Also- Clefable is really fun to use :]

Okay, so we have a fast physical attacker, a bulky special attacker and a bulky set up sweeper.
What about a stallbreaker? What do you think about Weavile?
 
I'm so freaking excited that Mamoswine and Froslass are viable. I feel like Ice-types don't get much credit. That, and I feel like Froslass is ignored now that Mega Glalie is a thing. But, Clefable it is! And I'm on board with Weavile! Always wanted to have an Ice type on my party. So, what exactly is a Stallbreaker?
 
I love them both :) I used them both in my teams and they are very fun to use. You will appreciate Froslass especially after she'll set up spikes while your opponent boosting itself only to get OHKOed with Destiny Bond .
A stalllbreaker is a Pokemon that can deal with stall. Stall is the definition for Pokemon that are not aimed to win you by offensive moves, but with moves that can wear you down while healing themselves such as Will-O-Wisp, Wish, Protect, Toxic, Thunder Wave Heal Bell etc. Usually these Pokemon are very bulky too, so offensive Pokemon cannot OHKO them. Clefable is actually a good stallbreaker. Magic Guard protect it from hazards, toxic and burns and Calm Mind boost it's Special attack so it can OHKO the bulkiest Pokemon before they can heal up. Since Clefable is your set up sweeper, it is recommended that you'll find another stallbreaker so you won't drop too much things for your Clefable to deal with. On the flip side, since Clefable is very good for switching in and out for Garchomp, maybe you want to use Clefable as your stallbreaker and think of another set up sweeper?
I think it's best because if you do that, then we can choose a faster set up sweeper that is better to keep for the end after Empoleon-Garchomp-Clefable core wears down your opponent.
Oh wait, I totally forgot about Weavile :p
Weavile is great for an end game cleaner. and you can use SD to potentially set up and do a massive damage to stall. Its speed and priority Ice Shard deals well with offense and he also has Knock Off which is great to remove items that can change the situation like Choice Scarf.

OK so we have:

1. Froslass/Mamoswine - Lead with SR/Spikes
2. Empoleon - Special wall and attacker.
3. Garchomp- Revenge Killer
4. Clefable - Stallbreaker
5. Weavile - End game cleaner, set up sweeper.

I would put in the final spot a Mega Pokemon of course because why not? :]
 
Ok, so what about a mega Heracross, Lopunny, Scizor, or Medicham? Also, thank you so much for all the help! I'm really loving it!
 
I think Mega Medicham. That way you can deal with Tyranitar and Mega Venusaur. It also serve as a great wall breaker so you can punch holes early on in your opponent's team, making it easier to sweep them later on with Weavile.
You're welcome! :]
 
Ok, so how do these look? Btw, I just put them in national dex order because why not.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight

Weavile @ Razor Fang
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 240 Atk / 16 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Aerial Ace
- Fake Out

Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 52 Def / 48 SpD / 156 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Poison Jab
- Ice Punch

Empoleon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
Level: 50
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 SpD
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Hydro Pump
- Grass Knot

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

*Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Roar

*Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
Level: 50
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt
- Shadow Ball

*Interchangeable
 
Chocolate Death said:
Weavile @ Razor Fang
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 240 Atk / 16 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Aerial Ace
- Fake Out
Click to expand...

I think Life Orb is better here since it can hit much harder with it and Weavile definitely needs the extra power for sweeping.
Aerial Ace is pretty outclassed by Icicle Crash which gets STAB. You can give Fake Out to Medicham for mega evolving safely and put here Swords dance instead so you can sweep better or Low Kick so you can destroy Bisharp.
 
I think that will be all for now. Now, what I think you need to do is build that team and battle at least 5 times so you can see if everything works right and if there is anything else to change. After you do that, you can post the full team in the Rate My Team forum to get rates and feedback on your finished team :)
 
Thanks! I'm currently breeding the party. I tested it a lot on Showdown and it seems good, so I just need to fully test it in rating battles before I put it in there. Once I do, I'll let you know. I hope to someday make a doubles team with the Sinnoh Dex too
 
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