Help Help with a Trick Room team?

AlphaVoxel

AlphaVoxel

Definitely still in development...
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Hey!

I have decided that it might be fun to get back into VGC for a little while, though I don't plan on going to any major tournaments this year. I do, however, want to build a few teams that I can work with, and this is the first thing I came up with:

Version I:
Gallade @ Focus Sash
Ability: Justified
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Taunt
- Trick Room

Mesprit @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Calm Mind
- Trick Room

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Infestation
- Toxic
- Baneful Bunker

This was the first version I came up with, and for a team that I threw together in like 10 minutes, it didn't do to bad. However, it just didn't work out quite as well as I had hoped. The logic behind a lot of the stuff in here barely makes any sense to me, as I kinda threw it together. As such, I can't really explain it, but it makes sense to me. If asked, I can try to explain as best as I can.
Logic:
(Insert logic here... -.-)

Version II:
Kingdra @ Lansat Berry
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Brine
- Protect

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast

Mesprit @ White Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Trick Room
- Skill Swap

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Aura Sphere
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect

Gallade @ Focus Sash
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Trick Room
- Taunt

So, this is the second/current version of the team, which has worked OK, but has had a few problems, most notably setting up, and being able to last. The main difference between this and the previous team is that I have thought some of this out a bit better, and I will now try to explain that:

Logic:
Mesprit + Skill Swap
I decided to run this to help with Mega Ampharos. Being able to give it an immunity to Ground is rather nice to have, especially with the large amount of Garchomp/Landorus/Stakataka. However, I have yet to have an opportunity to actually use this, as things are killed fairly quickly, or I don't ever need it.

Togekiss
Not quite sure why I put this in, but the idea of spamming Air Slash/Flinch seemed to be helpful. The only downside is that as soon as Trick Room is set up, it becomes a bit less useful, as everything else kind of moves before it.

Kingdra
This was my attempt at trying to diversify the team a bit, but it doesn't quite seem to be living up to what I would have liked it to be.

So, the reason why I am looking to get help with this is so that I can have a decent team to use online, go to local events with, and so on. I tried to do a bit of research when building this team, though half of the information was somewhat dated (the other half basically being peoples' RMTs on various sites). I do have a basic understanding of how a Trick Room team functions, as well as a few Pokemon that benefit from it. I was also fortunate enough to talk to a friend to try and get some ideas, and here is what he suggested:
Suggestions:
Mega Mawile - Kind of a duh.
Gardevoir - Good Trick Room setter, another good Mega Evolution, especially with Hyper Voice/Pixilate.
Gastrodon + Camurupt: Storm Drain to absorb Surf/other things, plus Camurupt to get rid of Grass types that threaten Gastrodon

Anyway, if I could get some help with this, it would be greatly appreciated. However, I would ask that you keep a few things in mind:

1. This is not intended to be super competitive, for aforementioned reasons.
2. I don't want to use the most common Trick Room stuff. I personally enjoy using more avant-garde strategies, and I try to have fun with the teams I build and play.
3. This is more of a suggestion, but I would ask that you not leave super short replies. It is a bit of a pet peeve of mine...

Well, that should be it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
-Alpha
 
First off, it is really hard to give advice when you don't want to use common stuff.

Togekiss in VGC is mainly used as a redirector. Id suggest swapping either dazzling gleam or aura sphere for it. Normally it isn't used for flinch hax due to there being two pokemon on either side (hard to cripple your opponent when you only target one right?). It is outclassed by Amoonguss as a redirector, however considering you don't want to use common stuff, you might not want to use it.

Kingdra is... well terrible. It's fine in a rain team but even then people often opt for ludi or swampert. However this is TR. Just, don't use it TR. If you're looking for a water type that's not always used I recommend Milotic. Amazing pokemon, and decent speed tier for TR.

For mesprit, idk man. Like normally I'd just say use Cress cos it outclasses it by far, but that's one of the most common TR mons out there. Could use oranguru instead. I've tested it out, it's p fun when it doesn't run offensive moves. Though I'll warn you it is a bit tricky to use properly. (Side note, white herb is terrible and even more so on a physical attacker, TR setters generally prefer mental herb). EDIT: Oh yeah, there's also Z trick room musharna. Boosts accuracy to help with hypnosis and that bypasses taunt/encore.

For your ampharos strategy, I'd just like to point out that landy, stakataka, and garchomp have all gone down in popularity. Garchomp is outclassed by Landy as a ground attacker, Stakataka was hyped up and then fell a tiny bit, same with Landy. Don't get me wrong, Landy and Stakataka are still good. Just they're a bit less common imo. If you wouldn't mind changing the mega tho, try Abomasnow or Camerupt. They're both far better than Ampharos and not many people usually expect either. If a team is caught off guard then there's no stopping them once they're set up.
 
double o squirtle said:
First off, it is really hard to give advice when you don't want to use common stuff.

Togekiss in VGC is mainly used as a redirector. Id suggest swapping either dazzling gleam or aura sphere for it. Normally it isn't used for flinch hax due to there being two pokemon on either side (hard to cripple your opponent when you only target one right?). It is outclassed by Amoonguss as a redirector, however considering you don't want to use common stuff, you might not want to use it.

Kingdra is... well terrible. It's fine in a rain team but even then people often opt for ludi or swampert. However this is TR. Just, don't use it TR. If you're looking for a water type that's not always used I recommend Milotic. Amazing pokemon, and decent speed tier for TR.

For mesprit, idk man. Like normally I'd just say use Cress cos it outclasses it by far, but that's one of the most common TR mons out there. Could use oranguru instead. I've tested it out, it's p fun when it doesn't run offensive moves. Though I'll warn you it is a bit tricky to use properly. (Side note, white herb is terrible and even more so on a physical attacker, TR setters generally prefer mental herb)

For your ampharos strategy, I'd just like to point out that landy, stakataka, and garchomp have all gone down in popularity. Garchomp is outclassed by Landy as a ground attacker, Stakataka was hyped up and then fell a tiny bit, same with Landy. Don't get me wrong, Landy and Stakataka are still good. Just they're a bit less common imo. If you wouldn't mind changing the mega tho, try Abomasnow or Camerupt. They're both far better than Ampharos and not many people usually expect either. If a team is caught off guard then there's no stopping them once they're set up.
Click to expand...

Allow me to rephrase what I said: I am not fond of using the most commonly used Pokemon, though I don't object to using them. The reason why I say that is because I try to have some level of originality when I make a team. I enjoy seeing the looks on peoples' faces when I use a Pokemon that nobody would have expected in a million years, so I try to use more unconventional strategies. Another reason is that, by using more common Pokemon (Ex. Amoonguss), I am more likely to encounter teams that are prepared to deal with those Pokemon.

That being said, I am interested in using some other form of Redirect to help keep the pressure off of whatever Pokemon is setting up Trick Room. As I started reading what you said, Smeargle and Clefairy came to mind, as they have access to Follow Me. As far as the Mega, I would very much love to keep/find a way to support Ampharos. I will keep testing with it, but if it doesn't seem to be working as well, I will likely switch to Camerupt and Gastrodon. For the Trick Room setter, I will test with Cresselia to compare it with Mesprit. I will also be definitely be switching Kingdra with Milotic (or Gastrodon if I end up using Camerupt).
 
I've had luck using a slow Charizard or Wailord in a Trick Room team, especially Wailord.
 
The main issue I see with your team is simply that a lot of the Pokemon you use do not hit hard enough to justify the 5 turns of TR you are setting up.

In terms of setters, there now exist a few Pokemon who constitute offensive threats in their own right: Stakataka, Reuniclus, Hoopa-U, and Oranguru (with Instruct) to name a few. Cresselia and Mesprit don't contribute much offensive pressure.

In terms of TR abusers, M-Ampharos is pretty interesting and non-standard. It has an unusual typing that works well against the likes of Charizard-Y and Zapdos. The annoying thing is that Discharge will not partner with Telepathy, Volt Absorb or Lightning Rod users due to Mold Breaker. I think you should run Thunderbolt, Dragon Pulse, Protect and a Hidden Power of your choice (whatever the team happens to be weak to). M-Ampharos is highly vulnerable to the Tapus, so a strong Steel or Poison attacker would make a good partner here.

I would drop things like Kingdra and Gallade, they simply do not hit hard enough (and your Gallade is Landorus-T food). There are plenty of slower, bulkier and more powerful Water types out there (Gastrodon may be too passive for this kind of team). For Fighting types (i.e. anti-Snorlax Pokemon), Hariyama and Scrafty both offer Fake Out support to get TR activated. Buzzwole beats most Landorus-T and can steamroll through teams with Beast Boost if it gets going.

As TR is a very popular archetype, make sure that you don't get flattened by opposing TR teams. You will need effective ways of dealing with M-Camerupt and Belly Drum Snorlax.

Good luck.
 
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