Expanded Help with Blastoise/Primarina/Archie's Deck

[FabulousShedinja]

Hello, I'm trying to build a fun version of Primarina using Archie's Ace and Deluge Blastoise, I've concocted 2 different deck lists to accomplish this goal.

Spoiler: Deck 1

Pokemon
4 x Talonflame - STS-96
2 x Exeggcute - PLB-102
2 x Primarina GX - SUM-42
2 x Blastoise - PLB-16
1 x Keldeo EX - BCR-142
1 x Jirachi EX - PLB-98

Item/Supporter/Stadium
2 x Archie's Ace in the Hole - PRC-124
4 x VS Seeker - ROS-110
4 x Trainers' Mail - ROS-92
4 x Superior Energy Retrieval - PLF-103
4 x Battle Compressor - PHF-92
1 x Computer Search - ACESPEC - BCR-137
4 x Ultra Ball - SUM-135
2 x Rough Seas - PRC-137
4 x Acro Bike - PRC-122
1 x Lysandre - AOR-78
1 x N - FCO-105
3 x Professor Juniper - PLB-84
2 x Float Stone - BKT-137

Energy
12 x Water Energy - Basic

OR

Spoiler: Deck 2

Pokemon
2 x Shaymin EX - ROS-77
2 x Exeggcute - PLB-102
2 x Blastoise - PLB-16
2 x Primarina GX - SUM-42
3 x Keldeo EX - BCR-142
2 x Jirachi EX - PLB-98

Item/Supporter/Stadium
2 x Archie's Ace in the Hole - PRC-157
4 x Ultra Ball - SUM-135
4 x Superior Energy Retrieval - PLF-103
1 x Computer Search - ACESPEC - BCR-137
4 x Trainers' Mail - AOR-100
4 x VS Seeker - PHF-109
4 x Battle Compressor - PHF-92
4 x Acro Bike - PRC-122
2 x Float Stone - BKT-137
2 x Professor Juniper - PLF-116
1 x N - FCO-105
1 x Lysandre - AOR-78
2 x Rough Seas - PRC-137

Energy
12 x Water Energy - Basic

The main difference's between the two lists is that the first one uses Talonflame STS to try and get set up and cut's back on Keldeo trying to put more focus on Primarina, and the other list is trying to be more like HonorStoise by PTCG World Champion Jacob Van Wagner just with Mewtwo, Wailord, and Articuno cut out.

I'm looking for a help deciding which one to build, I'm looking for the one you guys think might run more efficiently or work better. Also let me know any changes you think I should make to the list's. Thank you so much!

 

[FabulousShedinja]

I apologize for not realizing I am only allowed one decklist in a thread, i missed it somehow when reading the guidelines... I'll edit it to better fit the rules if a mod asks. sorry again, i'm very new here. But excited to be here nonetheless.

 

[Darkness3827]

As far as I can tell you didn't really break the rules because you are posting 2 variations of the same deck, I'm not a mod so it doesn't really matter what I say but if I were I'd say it's better than if you had made them separate topics.

Anyway about the actual deck:
I've never run an Archie's deck (or the fire equivalent, Maxie's), so I'm not an expert on the topic, but I have a friend that has so I can recommend a couple changes that might be useful. I'm a fan of Talonflame so between the 2 variants I'd prolly pick that one.

First I'd run a 3rd Archie's. Especially since your plan is to Archie's 2 different Pokémon, you are going to want to have it in your hand as often as possible. It might not be necessary in the Talonflame deck since you can just search it out, but I'd definitely put it in the other deck if you plan on using that instead

Maintenance is an absolutely awesome card for getting Archie's off. IDK if it's better or worse than Acro Bike, but it has the advantage of allowing you to put cards back into your deck so if you have a bunch of cards you don't want to discard, you don't have to. Also it makes sure you don't mill yourself out too hard.

My friend has never run it, but Puzzle of Time might be interesting. It allows you to get back items from discard and it is easy to get 2 at once with Talonflame. You can also just use the 1 to reorder your deck to make the most out of Acro Bike or Maintenance. It also might remove the need for Exeggcute.

You might want to consider a Judge as a draw supporter instead of N or a Sycamore, it limits your opponent's hand as well as yours, so you should have an easier time getting off Archie's the next turn if you have Talonflame out.

I'd also consider running a 2nd Keldeo. Hurts your chances of starting with Talonflame, but it's still a very good Pokémon to start with and can hold the fort while you get the other guys out.

As for what to cut:
4 Battle Compressor seems a bit excessive, especially since you can get 1 out with Talonflame if you need it. The only cards you really need to compress are Primarina and Blastoise and Archie's. I'd personally run 3.

4 Superior Energy Retrieval also seems a bit excessive. It does allow you to discard energy whenever you want, but I don't think you need 4. Again I'd cut 1.

I understand the point of Exeggcute, but I'm not much of a fan of it. It hurts your chances of starting with Talonflame which are immensely important and unlike with Keldeo it is an awful starter.

3 Sycamore seems excessive. Archie's is your main draw supporter anyway, you want to be using it instead of Sycamore whenever possible. Also Supporters can clog up your hand. I'd reduce it to 2.

So in short:
+1 Archie's
+1 Keldeo EX
+4 Puzzle of Time or +3 Maintenance

-2 Exeggcute
-1 Sycamore
-1 Superior Energy Retrieval
-1 Battle Compressor
-1 Acro Bike

You could as dump the rest of the Acro Bikes for the Puzzle of times or the Maintenance (whichever you didn't put in first)

 

[FabulousShedinja]

As far as I can tell you didn't really break the rules because you are posting 2 variations of the same deck, I'm not a mod so it doesn't really matter what I say but if I were I'd say it's better than if you had made them separate topics.

Anyway about the actual deck:
I've never run an Archie's deck (or the fire equivalent, Maxie's), so I'm not an expert on the topic, but I have a friend that has so I can recommend a couple changes that might be useful. I'm a fan of Talonflame so between the 2 variants I'd prolly pick that one.

First I'd run a 3rd Archie's. Especially since your plan is to Archie's 2 different Pokémon, you are going to want to have it in your hand as often as possible. It might not be necessary in the Talonflame deck since you can just search it out, but I'd definitely put it in the other deck if you plan on using that instead

Maintenance is an absolutely awesome card for getting Archie's off. IDK if it's better or worse than Acro Bike, but it has the advantage of allowing you to put cards back into your deck so if you have a bunch of cards you don't want to discard, you don't have to. Also it makes sure you don't mill yourself out too hard.

My friend has never run it, but Puzzle of Time might be interesting. It allows you to get back items from discard and it is easy to get 2 at once with Talonflame. You can also just use the 1 to reorder your deck to make the most out of Acro Bike or Maintenance. It also might remove the need for Exeggcute.

You might want to consider a Judge as a draw supporter instead of N or a Sycamore, it limits your opponent's hand as well as yours, so you should have an easier time getting off Archie's the next turn if you have Talonflame out.

I'd also consider running a 2nd Keldeo. Hurts your chances of starting with Talonflame, but it's still a very good Pokémon to start with and can hold the fort while you get the other guys out.

As for what to cut:
4 Battle Compressor seems a bit excessive, especially since you can get 1 out with Talonflame if you need it. The only cards you really need to compress are Primarina and Blastoise and Archie's. I'd personally run 3.

4 Superior Energy Retrieval also seems a bit excessive. It does allow you to discard energy whenever you want, but I don't think you need 4. Again I'd cut 1.

I understand the point of Exeggcute, but I'm not much of a fan of it. It hurts your chances of starting with Talonflame which are immensely important and unlike with Keldeo it is an awful starter.

3 Sycamore seems excessive. Archie's is your main draw supporter anyway, you want to be using it instead of Sycamore whenever possible. Also Supporters can clog up your hand. I'd reduce it to 2.

So in short:
+1 Archie's
+1 Keldeo EX
+4 Puzzle of Time or +3 Maintenance

-2 Exeggcute
-1 Sycamore
-1 Superior Energy Retrieval
-1 Battle Compressor
-1 Acro Bike

You could as dump the rest of the Acro Bikes for the Puzzle of times or the Maintenance (whichever you didn't put in first)

Hi, thanks for the help!

The additional archie is actually a great idea, thank you! Also I found out about Maintenance late last night It sounds like a good card for Archie's but If I run it I need to run the Exeggcute for this scenario: I have 4 cards in my hand Maintenance and Archie's are in my hand I play the Maintenance shuffle 2 cards and draw Ultra ball there is no way I can Archie that turn after drawing the ultra ball unless I draw 2 somehow which is a problem that 2 Exeggcute's in the discard solves.

Puzzle of Time is Genius, that Is such a good idea!

your argument with Judge is a good one I might switch N for Judge and Sycamore for Shauna.

4 Battle Compressors I feel is still worth it as it assists the energy retrieval with Blastoise and a mid game hand with 3 Talonflame is awful.

Thanks for the suggestions! I will definitely make some of the changes.

 

[Kietharr]

I would definitely go with the deck that runs more Keldeo over Primarina. You mostly have the right idea with your trainer comps, you want a lot of items, lots of basic pokemon and as few supporters/evolution pokemon as possible, the less potential dead cards in your hand, the more consistent your archie will be.

A word of caution though, Archie's is in a rough spot right now, it had already kind of fallen off before grass itemlock spam took off after SM, but those decks are an absolute terror for any variation of Archie's since if they win the flip and pull off their turn 1 lock (~85% chance in a typical expanded lock list), you lose not only most of your draw engine, but also your energy acceleration engine.