Hints at Next Years Rotation

[Gunther Spindler]

Honestly, I'm more curious on how they run tournaments next year than the rotation. Because regional's were in expanded, our LC's were split between Standard and Expanded. It made it hard on really getting any sort of grasp on a deck, as you were consistently going back and forth between formats. Last year, I really felt like I had a solid grasp on a deck or two, this year however, I'm always in this weird limbo of ya, I can play that deck decently enough, not great, but decently.

If you think that is a issue, you can play the same deck adapted for each format. You can do this well with NM, Yveltal, M Manectric, M Ray Metal (which I tested and did better in Standard for being easier to Aegislash wall NM, and harder of EXs decks to keep up with M Ray Dmg/Speed)

Please TPCi, let the rotation be Phantom Forces-on, so we lose these freaking/skill-less Night March decks and these suuuper annoying Bats! Thank you.

Even NM being my to go deck, i'm already tired of playing it, i expect to play it only this year anymore in standard with the upcoming Mew from X10 and reprinted N.
Rotating out NM pokes and battle compressor will give chance to a lot of Mega decks which couldn't keep up with NM speed/raw power.
I expect to be able to play M Mewtwo/Carbink Break in Standard next year, but if they keep NM, it will be still unplayable.

 

[poke4trade]

If you think that is a issue, you can play the same deck adapted for each format. You can do this well with NM, Yveltal, M Manectric, M Ray Metal (which I tested and did better in Standard for being easier to Aegislash wall NM, and harder of EXs decks to keep up with M Ray Dmg/Speed)

Ya, I hear you. It's just decks run completely different in each format. It gives them a bit of a different play style. Like drawing 16 cards off colloress is bit different play style then drawing 4 cards or 7 off birches. It creates outcomes that you wouldn't normally do because of a trainer card issue rather than a pokemon issue. The same deck needs to be played differently depending on the format. And in that sense, you never really get a grasp on the deck cause your switching it between formats.

For instance, in standard usually trainers play yveltal a bit more conservatively than they play it in expanded because of probability. You are more opt to hit the cards you need in expanded because there are more ways of getting them out (Computer Search). Also, the match ups are really different to me because of trainer selections. To me, it's harder to get a solid grasp on the deck when going from standard to expanded. It's like your playing in two different leagues all the time.

 

[Talkingcat]

I kinda feel like the majority of people (in my area ) are playing Expanded anyway so the rotation isn't going to matter too much. (And if it does...hopefully it'll be XY-on for Expanded?) I've yet to run into anyone playing strictly Standard.

People play whatever format is coming up at the next set of competitions. Odds on they will go for a good balance like they did this season, so people will still be playing plenty of standard.

 

[Otaku]

Please TPCi, let the rotation be Phantom Forces-on, so we lose these freaking/skill-less Night March decks and these suuuper annoying Bats! Thank you.

You are making me defend the state of the game. Please don't do that. -_-

There are many cards that have disproportionate cost/benefits in favor of the benefits. Most still require at least a modicum of skill to run and play, and as you can tell when you face someone who does not know how to properly run a Night March or Crobat (PHF) deck. One of the useful things I have learned from my critics is not to confuse "skill-less" for "less skill" or "different skill". Night March may not require as much skill to run as some decks, but if I have to choose between that and decks which are designed to turn the game into fancy solitaire, I'll go with Night March.

Most of the game feels like it is built on "less skill", with some "different skills" than I prefer taking precedent . There is still skill required to consistently win... in a paradoxical turn, perhaps even more skill than in what I would consider a properly balanced game as you need to work hard to compensate for the times when someone who is a little (a lot?) below average like me can steal the game because of an easy power play that throws luck of the draw or coin flips at ya. FYI, since sometimes I do talk about how good the game used to be, a lot of this isn't new: some of it is, some of it is simply more prominent than in the past, some of it is less but still there and almost all of it leaves a long time player like me asking "Why haven't they corrected for this yet?" Well, I used to ask that; now it is pretty obvious most folks enjoy it this way and if I was in charge, I would also dislike taking the risk of crafting a game that was better balanced by my own standards but risk losing the crowd that likes things the way they are.

Okay, getting down off the soap box and back on topic since this speculation thread is still up and running. Based on past precedence, I believe the most likely Standard cut-off points in set order (not order of probability or preference) are:

• XY-On: They are still fine-tuning the blend of Standard and Expanded, so keeping it the same does that. Having "no Rotation" is quite rare, but has happened once before. It ended up causing an emergency rotation later down the road as rules revisions and game mechanic changes clashed.
• PHF-On: Three sets is the low end of the common rotation amounts.
• PRC-On: Four sets cut is middle of the common rotation amounts, and also the equivalent of cutting off the previous years worth of releases.
• ROS-On: Five sets is the high end of common rotation amounts.
  
  So what about Expanded? My understanding of this kind of extended formats in other games is that the goal is to avoid messy breaks in card generations; especially with the increased use of cards being banned, it just makes the most sense to me that whether retained or cut, the BW-era sets remain a unit. If the next generation isn't too radically different from the current, Expanded will have one last run of BW-On. If they go the route of a "Ban List", we might even see BW-On remain in place for even longer. If the next generation is radically different and they wish to avoid any further card bans or balance-based-errata, then we'll see XY-On even if there is only a three to five set difference.

 

[Serperior]

I'm honestly hoping it's ROS-on. Keeping VS Seeker and Shaymin-EX is pretty big in my opinion, and we'd finally get rid of Night March. Unfortunately, we'd lose my favorite (MegaMan) and Dimension Valley, but Bats'll still be around because of Generations. ): PRC didn't offer all that much other than Wailord (yuck) and Primal Groudon Pokémon-wise, but we'll be saying "peace" to Fairy Garden, Archie's, Maxie's, and Birch's Observations.

 

[dkatz2003]

I'm honestly hoping it's ROS-on. Keeping VS Seeker and Shaymin-EX is pretty big in my opinion, and we'd finally get rid of Night March. Unfortunately, we'd lose my favorite (MegaMan) and Dimension Valley, but Bats'll still be around because of Generations. ): PRC didn't offer all that much other than Wailord (yuck) and Primal Groudon Pokémon-wise, but we'll be saying "peace" to Fairy Garden, Archie's, Maxie's, and Birch's Observations.

Were getting a fairy garden reprint in the mega audio pack (xy10).

 

[bbninjas]

The unfortunate thing is that even after rotation, we'll probably be keeping Yveltal, as Baby Yveltal got reprinted in Radiant Collection and the EX will probably be the reprint in the Shiny Kalos Tins.

 

[Clear]

Reprints in first 4 sets that is good, and will see reprint (some confirmed), feel free to add to this list:

XY:
Raichu Line, Yveltal (Generations)
Yveltal-EX (Kalos Shiny Tin)
Prof Letter (BP)
Syncamore (A few)
Switch (PC SR)
DCE (Generations)

FF:
*insert a "This set is bad sticker" here*
Lysandre (AO)

FuF:
Strong Energy (XY10's Zygarde deck, unconfirmed)

PF:
Crobat Line (Generations)
VS Seeker (RS SR)
Dimensional Valley (XY10, was right next to N in the leak, unconfirmed)
E-Hammer (PC SR)

Misc:
N (XY10)
Random Receiver (Unconfirmed, reports claimed to be part of Zygarde deck)

Likely reprints:
Korrina, AZ, Muscle Band, Crushing Hammer, Compressor

There is TWO more chance for Compressor to come back before the year is done. I only like to say Compressor is good enough for a reprint is because Compressor offers lots of intricate and healthy plays outside of dull and boring Night March. Maxie Archie is a perfect example of cards that actually NEED Compressor to operate. Another good example is Carbink BREAK. I like to think that Crushing Hammer is now integral to the game, and to be honest, the new Carbink will give it a run for its money, same with Muscle Band.

There is a very likely chance for Korrina, or AZ to make a return. If Supports from BW make returns to Standard for no discerning reason, then these 2 should not be counted out either, most likely not immediately, but if Sun and Moon are direct sequels to XY, then their return as Supporters will make sense.

 

[dkatz2003]

The most probable

Reprints in first 4 sets that is good, and will see reprint (some confirmed), feel free to add to this list:

XY:
Raichu Line, Yveltal (Generations)
Yveltal-EX (Kalos Shiny Tin)
Prof Letter (BP)
Syncamore (A few)
Switch (PC SR)
DCE (Generations)

FF:
*insert a "This set is bad sticker" here*
Lysandre (AO)

FuF:
Strong Energy (XY10's Zygarde deck, unconfirmed)

PF:
Crobat Line (Generations)
VS Seeker (RS SR)
Dimensional Valley (XY10, was right next to N in the leak, unconfirmed)
E-Hammer (PC SR)

Misc:
N (XY10)
Random Receiver (Unconfirmed, reports claimed to be part of Zygarde deck)

Likely reprints:
Korrina, AZ, Muscle Band, Crushing Hammer, Compressor

There is TWO more chance for Compressor to come back before the year is done. I only like to say Compressor is good enough for a reprint is because Compressor offers lots of intricate and healthy plays outside of dull and boring Night March. Maxie Archie is a perfect example of cards that actually NEED Compressor to operate. Another good example is Carbink BREAK. I like to think that Crushing Hammer is now integral to the game, and to be honest, the new Carbink will give it a run for its money, same with Muscle Band.

There is a very likely chance for Korrina, or AZ to make a return. If Supports from BW make returns to Standard for no discerning reason, then these 2 should not be counted out either, most likely not immediately, but if Sun and Moon are direct sequels to XY, then their return as Supporters will make sense.

We got a crushing hammer reprint in generations

 

[Ms Hugo]

I also think Battle Compressor should be reprinted, as it allows for a number of diverse and fun plays (Battle Compress 2 DCE, use 2 Time Puzzle, essentially a free "search your deck for 2 cards"). As long as Night March goes, it won't be quite as broken.

I'm praying that rotation is PRC-on, and that Compressor and maybe D-Valley are reprinted. If Night March/Bats stay around for another year, I may very well take a break from the game.

 

[MarshalBry]

I also think Battle Compressor should be reprinted, as it allows for a number of diverse and fun plays (Battle Compress 2 DCE, use 2 Time Puzzle, essentially a free "search your deck for 2 cards"). As long as Night March goes, it won't be quite as broken.

I'm praying that rotation is PRC-on, and that Compressor and maybe D-Valley are reprinted. If Night March/Bats stay around for another year, I may very well take a break from the game.

I'd like to see Battle Compressor reprinted just because of the fact it's really good for a more consistent way of thinning your deck to get rid of only things you don't need (ie ultra balls when you have all pokemon in play, excess energy) so you know that late game sycamore/birch is super likely to grab you that one card you need.

 

[Otaku]

The unfortunate thing is that even after rotation, we'll probably be keeping Yveltal, as Baby Yveltal got reprinted in Radiant Collection and the EX will probably be the reprint in the Shiny Kalos Tins.

Almost as important, all the stuff that has helped Yveltal-EX remain so strong have also been reprinted (like Double Colorless Energy) or still not printed (better Evolving Pokémon so the fully Evolved forms don't have to carry all the weight).

 

[cardgjammer]

I believe I shouldn't count PHF rotated after this League cycle just yet, regardless of reprint evidence: Because of a trend I found regarding when sets rotate officially, I suggest you hang on to your Compressors and Manectric-EXes for at least one more cycle. Here is how I determined that to be a reasonable thing to do:

After research, the last set rotated effective September is always the last one released in the third league cycle(which lasts from September of one calendar year thru August the next) back from the current one, with the exception of the last set of the generation, in which case, if the pentultimate set of the gen is rotated, the last set of the gen is rotated with it for the reason of "to give the players a fresh start to new rules and/or structure"...

For example, when Dragons Exalted was rotated at the end of the 2013-14 league cycle, it has seen three cycles, if only one of them partial(but partial doesn't matter in rotation: any one cycle, partial or not, counts as one cycle against the "three cycles" hypothesis). Once any has been in circulation for any amount of time longer than three cycles, it is rotated. Plain and simple...


Since PHF will not break the three cycles until the end of the next cycle(Released on November of 2014, so it will see two cycles after the 2015-16 cycle's end), but on the contrary, Furious Fists will see three cycles after the end of 2015-16's league cycle, so judging by my research regarding cycles and their connection on rotations, I predict and expect the 2016-17 cycle to be PHF-on... Then again, there's no denying the possibility that TPCi could rotate PHF, but if they do that, be surprised, judging from historic rotation patterns, which currently say otherwise, but you never know when and if they choose to break such patterns...

^ I won't complain this early about rotation, though. Just pointing out something I discovered that's related to subject. Complaining about rotation this early would be, in my opinion, a waste of valuable space on forums. I believe someone should say when to expect a particular set to be rotated, and make a rule banning further discussion regarding rotations, with the exception of discussion regarding recent official rotation announcements... Then again, maybe it's just me and my personal opinion... May or may not be a actual legit opinion... Not a direct demand to staff, but just my personal opinion regarding early discussion of a hot-button topic to the pokemon TCG game such as rotation that only comes to the forefront one time per year...

EDIT: On second thought, don't be surprised... Instead, since either possibility is 50/50 right now due to the clash of new Traits vs. new mechs possibly causing debate and uncertainty in regards to next rotation, I won't count PHF out yet, but rather, mired in controversy, while the debate rages on... A debate that deserves to last until late July/early August, when the rotation announcement comes... When it does, we will know which of the two sets survived the rotation cut and caught the eyes of TPCi as the prevailing mechs introduced in the oldest legal set for the next cycle... Until then...

 

[Latte1504]

After research, the last set rotated effective September is always the last one released in the third league cycle(which lasts from September of one calendar year thru August the next) back from the current one, with the exception of the last set of the generation, in which case, if the pentultimate set of the gen is rotated, the last set of the gen is rotated with it for the reason of "to give the players a fresh start to new rules and/or structure"...

For example, when Dragons Exalted was rotated at the end of the 2013-14 league cycle, it has seen three cycles, if only one of them partial(but partial doesn't matter in rotation: any one cycle, partial or not, counts as one cycle against the "three cycles" hypothesis). Once any has been in circulation for any amount of time longer than three cycles, it is rotated. Plain and simple...


Since PHF will not break the three cycles until the end of the next cycle(Released on November of 2014, so it will see two cycles after the 2015-16 cycle's end), but on the contrary, Furious Fists will see three cycles after the end of 2015-16's league cycle, so judging by my research regarding cycles and their connection on rotations, I predict and expect the 2016-17 cycle to be PHF-on... Then again, there's no denying the possibility that TPCi could rotate PHF, but if they do that, be surprised, judging from historic rotation patterns, which currently say otherwise, but you never know when and if they choose to break such patterns...

While your logic is flawless, the rotation is usually done with the oldest set preserving some kind of game element or they do it to rotate a block. Since 2012, here are the rotations:
HS on to BW on- Rotated HS expansions
BW on to NXD on-NXD reintroduced EX Pokemon
NXD on to BCR on-BCR introduced ACE SPECS
BCR on to XY on-Rotated the last of the XY sets
XY on to PHF on preserves what? Rotating to PRC would be the first set with Ancient Traits. After that, I expect it to be BKT on as the first set with BREAK Pokemon, and then SM (first Gen 7 set) to rotate the entirety of the XY sets.

 

[cardgjammer]

While your logic is flawless, the rotation is usually done with the oldest set preserving some kind of game element or they do it to rotate a block. Since 2012, here are the rotations:
HS on to BW on- Rotated HS expansions
BW on to NXD on-NXD reintroduced EX Pokemon
NXD on to BCR on-BCR introduced ACE SPECS
BCR on to XY on-Rotated the last of the XY sets
XY on to PHF on preserves what? Rotating to PRC would be the first set with Ancient Traits. After that, I expect it to be BKT on as the first set with BREAK Pokemon, and then SM (first Gen 7 set) to rotate the entirety of the XY sets.

Two words: Spirit Links...

^ PHF introduced Spirit Links...

 

[Latte1504]

Two words: Spirit Links...

So, you are saying to keep the set in for 6 cards, half of which are/will become obsolete if the rotation is XY to FUF?

 

[cardgjammer]

So, you are saying to keep the set in for 6 cards, half of which are/will become obsolete if the rotation is XY to FUF?

Not to mention one other thing: Team Flare tools...

^ I believe they will keep PHF due to the two mechs introduced in PHF: mega evolving w/o wasting a turn, and capability of attaching tools to opponent EXes, but I won't complain if it's PRC-on... After all, two mechs introduced in one set(PHF) vs. a major change(Traits) in meta in another(PRC) makes it, in my opinion, a toss-up that I think TPCi will discuss in-office over the next couple months thru the US Nationals... But at this time, I expect they will keep PHF...

 

[Latte1504]

Not to mention one other thing: Team Flare tools...

While flare tools were a mech, they were never again used, so, I personally do not count them.

 

[pete]

Reprints in first 4 sets that is good, and will see reprint (some confirmed), feel free to add to this list:

XY:
Raichu Line, Yveltal (Generations)
Yveltal-EX (Kalos Shiny Tin)
Prof Letter (BP)
Syncamore (A few)
Switch (PC SR)
DCE (Generations)

FF:
*insert a "This set is bad sticker" here*
Lysandre (AO)

FuF:
Strong Energy (XY10's Zygarde deck, unconfirmed)

PF:
Crobat Line (Generations)
VS Seeker (RS SR)
Dimensional Valley (XY10, was right next to N in the leak, unconfirmed)
E-Hammer (PC SR)

Misc:
N (XY10)
Random Receiver (Unconfirmed, reports claimed to be part of Zygarde deck)

Likely reprints:
Korrina, AZ, Muscle Band, Crushing Hammer, Compressor

There is TWO more chance for Compressor to come back before the year is done. I only like to say Compressor is good enough for a reprint is because Compressor offers lots of intricate and healthy plays outside of dull and boring Night March. Maxie Archie is a perfect example of cards that actually NEED Compressor to operate. Another good example is Carbink BREAK. I like to think that Crushing Hammer is now integral to the game, and to be honest, the new Carbink will give it a run for its money, same with Muscle Band.

There is a very likely chance for Korrina, or AZ to make a return. If Supports from BW make returns to Standard for no discerning reason, then these 2 should not be counted out either, most likely not immediately, but if Sun and Moon are direct sequels to XY, then their return as Supporters will make sense.

crobat himself was not reprinted

 

[Talkingcat]

I also think Battle Compressor should be reprinted, as it allows for a number of diverse and fun plays (Battle Compress 2 DCE, use 2 Time Puzzle, essentially a free "search your deck for 2 cards"). As long as Night March goes, it won't be quite as broken.

I'm praying that rotation is PRC-on, and that Compressor and maybe D-Valley are reprinted. If Night March/Bats stay around for another year, I may very well take a break from the game.

Bats don't bother me, but I think it would be better to if Night March went off to Expanded, and I'll happily say goodbye to Bats as the price for getting rid of it. It's getting way too centralized, almost as bad as Toad towards the end of the last format. The whole "you either have to play it or counter it" is not good for the game, and that's what we're seeing- NM dominating and only item lock decks performing against it. Agree that it would be great to keep Compressor.

I hope we get a Korinna reprint though.