Ho-Oh/Virizion Deck

[suicidalnuns]

4 Ho-Oh EX
3 Virizion (NVI)

4 N
4 Professor Juniper
2 Cilan
3 Bianca

4 Pokemon Catcher
3 Energy search
4 Ultra Ball
4 Crushing Hammer
3 Switch
3 SSU
3 Enhanced Hammer
3 eviolite
2 skyarrow bridge
1 Max Potion
1 tool scrapper

4{G}
2{R}
2{L}
2{P}
2{D}
The main focus of this deck is to get Ho-Oh EX into the discard pile via juniper and Ultra ball, as well as several different types of energy. I chose virizion over a beautifly DRE because a stage 2 line would be too clunky, and beautifly can't attack very effectively. Also, the energy acceleration is all coming from the discard pile, and I don't plan on having a Ho-Oh EX with no energy on for long.

 

[Koga7737]

I love your idea for this. I think you should take out two Cilans, they aren't really all that useful, but one couldn't hurt. And also, I understand what you mean by too many energies, but instead of taking energy types out, why not just cut down their quantities? So instead of 4{G} and 2{R}{W}{L}{P} why not have 4{G} and 1{R}{W}{L}{P}{D}{M} and add one more to any of them. Also, wouldn't hurt to run a couple Eviolites and Tool Scappers. Also, Max Potions make you discard all energy on the Pokemon of choice, so its not all that useful here. I do like that you add Enhanced Hammers as they are good against Darkrai/Hydreigon and Garchomp/Altaria decks that run the Blend Energy. In the Darkrai decks, they run one Sigilyph that will give you a run for your money. Virizion can counter it, but they will bring up another pokemon to revenge the Sigilyph. The Enhancing hammers will knock out those Blend Energy, thus rendering Sigilyph useless. I would max those out as well.

-2 Cilan
-2 Max Potions
-1 Energy Search (3 should be plenty)
-1 Crushing Hammer (to make room for another Enhanced Hammer)

+2 Enhanced Hammers
+2 Eviolites
+2 Tool Scrappers (maybe only 1, since this will only be used against Garbodor, which doesn't seem like its getting in that many deck. Still nice to get rid of Eviolites and Rocky helmets or what have you)

Then just even out you're energies as you please. In random situations, it could make a difference to have a more diverse amount of energies.

Also, Since the grass energy is already there, if you choose not to use Tool Scapper, you could consider Shaymin EX, though, I haven't seen it all that much usefulness in this deck.

 

[suicidalnuns]

I love your idea for this. I think you should take out two Cilans, they aren't really all that useful, but one couldn't hurt. And also, I understand what you mean by too many energies, but instead of taking energy types out, why not just cut down their quantities? So instead of 4{G} and 2{R}{W}{L}{P} why not have 4{G} and 1{R}{W}{L}{P}{D}{M} and add one more to any of them. Also, wouldn't hurt to run a couple Eviolites and Tool Scappers. Also, Max Potions make you discard all energy on the Pokemon of choice, so its not all that useful here. I do like that you add Enhanced Hammers as they are good against Darkrai/Hydreigon and Garchomp/Altaria decks that run the Blend Energy. In the Darkrai decks, they run one Sigilyph that will give you a run for your money. Virizion can counter it, but they will bring up another pokemon to revenge the Sigilyph. The Enhancing hammers will knock out those Blend Energy, thus rendering Sigilyph useless. I would max those out as well.

-2 Cilan
-2 Max Potions
-1 Energy Search (3 should be plenty)
-1 Crushing Hammer (to make room for another Enhanced Hammer)

+2 Enhanced Hammers
+2 Eviolites
+2 Tool Scrappers (maybe only 1, since this will only be used against Garbodor, which doesn't seem like its getting in that many deck. Still nice to get rid of Eviolites and Rocky helmets or what have you)

Then just even out you're energies as you please. In random situations, it could make a difference to have a more diverse amount of energies.

Also, Since the grass energy is already there, if you choose not to use Tool Scapper, you could consider Shaymin EX, though, I haven't seen it all that much usefulness in this deck.

There are actually 2 free spots in this deck right now, which I was planning on filling with eviolites or tool scrappers, but I must've skipped over them in my list.

I do like the idea to actually take out 2 of the cilans, because the main strategy I had with them was to Cilan + energy search in one turn, then juniper the next. However, this doesn't work when everybody plays 4 N, but Ultra Ball + Cilan works pretty nicely as well, so I may just cut down to 2 Cilan.

My problem with running only 1 copy of each energy is that I feel like there's always going to be a situation where 2 different types of energy are prized, so I would only have 3 (or 4 if I add in {F}) energies to work with.

I was also thinking about adding in skyarrow bridge. Even though I am putting less energy in the discard pile for other Ho-Ohs to work with, I'm not putting my Ho-Oh in play at risk by having only 1 energy on him.

 

[Koga7737]

Skyarrow Bridge is actually not that bad of an idea. Free Virizion retreat could help, unless you need the energy on it into the discard. Also, if you can, try testing this deck against something that uses Mewtwo EX. I feel like he could be deadly against this deck. He hits Ho-oh for 100, minimum so I'm curious how well this deck fares(?) against it.

And I can see what you mean with the energy being prized, but what if there is a situation in which your Ho-oh already has all 5 Energies on it, and you have 3 of the same in your hand? That extra 20 damage could make the game. Plus, if there are energy in your prized cards, there's less of a chance of two of the same energy being in there if there are only one of each. So by diversifying your energy, you aren't really losing any power, you are getting more chances to increase it

 

[suicidalnuns]

The decklist has been updated to a full 60 cards. Thoughts?

 

[Mora]

By not diversifying your energy types, you realize you're limiting yourself to 120 damage? I think you should have all eight in there. A Ho-oh with eight (don't think it's common but it is possible) can OHKO Darkrai EX. With six, you OHKO Garchomp, and Zekrom. But five won't do much in this format. And if you're worried about prizing two, it doesn't matter. 8 - 2 > 5. It only matters if you prize more than three (which you have to be kind of unlucky). Also, I'd take out the Energy Search for the Energy Switch. If you run one of every energy, you won't really need it. You might as well just run more energy. With Energy Switch, you could get a T1 Ho-oh out of the discard and attach. That's four energies. Next turn, get another Ho-oh out, Energy Switch, and attach. That's six on T2. Not sure exactly what the likelihood of that is, but you get the idea.

 

[Koga7737]

@Mora I understand your reasoning for taking out Energy Search for Energy Switch, I like it. But, that Energy Search could really make a world of difference. I have had countless tests where the only useful move I had was to Juniper my hand, and a number of those times, I had energy search in my hand, which could be used to help Ho-oh in the discard. So let's go half way.

-1 Crushing Hammer (Three should be plenty)
-1 Energy Search
+2 Energy Switch

 

[Mora]

I feel that without Junk Arm, you might as well just run more energies. If you have Energy Search and Junper in your hand, if you take out the Energy Search for energes, then you would have energies and Juniper in your hand. It would be different in say Rayquaza Eels where you have two different types of energy and you want to be sure you always have the right energy. The only other reason I would run energy search in this format would be if there was nothing else I wanted to add. Then, running four Energy Search would be like only having 56 cards.

 

[pkolaboy]

To be honest I copied your list the other night to see how the deck would flow. Mulligan is a sure problem for this deck, giving your opponent multiple cards to help setup. There were just a bunch of nonessential cards in my hand when all I needed to do is get ho-oh and energies in the discard. I am not sure if it was because of Playtcg or what but the draws always seemed horrible. I could never get any energy on turn one to DD with Verizion. Lol maybe just bad luck? :/

 

[Koga7737]

@Mora well the reason of running Energy Search is to get specific energies too. If you are about to Juniper and you have a duplicate of an energy in the discard pile, it's almost pointless to have it dropped in there, unless there are multiple Ho-ohs and 5 energies already in the discard pile.

@pkolaboy I run a deck similar to this and it works fine for me. If my opponent gets a lot of mulligan draws, it can usually be neutralized by N and if you can't get a draw supporter or an energy on turn 1, then yeah, that's pretty unlucky.

I should probably just respond you guys by quotes but I don't know how to do multiple quotes in a reply.

 

[suicidalnuns]

Haha, I'm glad this deck is picking up some play with you guys! Isn't it fun? Anyway, I have just recently tested 4 games against reshiboar EX with 2 mewtwo, and right now it's 2-2 with 2 deck-outs for Ho-oh. Mewtwo gets taken down by 2 rainbow burns, as long as one is hitting for 100, and I've luckily been drawing into tool scrapper right when I need it. Are there any other decks I should be testing against? Then next one I'm thinking of is Empoleon/Terrakion, but after that; I've already whooped Zeels and Garchomp Altaria, both with a 5-1 series.

 

[Koga7737]

Darkrai/Hydreigon would be good to test against. And it's gaining popularity, at least from what I've seen. I feel this deck would dominate against Klingklang/Registeel because of the type advantage, but I've yet to test it myself.

 

[Mora]

@Mora well the reason of running Energy Search is to get specific energies too. If you are about to Juniper and you have a duplicate of an energy in the discard pile, it's almost pointless to have it dropped in there, unless there are multiple Ho-ohs and 5 energies already in the discard pile.

Which would be irrelevant if there were only one of each type of energy like I suggested.

 

[Koga7737]

Which would be irrelevant if there were only one of each type of energy like I suggested.

Okay, this is getting confusing. If he evens out his energy that he has now to where he has one of each, then he has one of all, 4 of {G}, and 1 left over. Added to that, if he replaces the energy search with more energy, that adds duplicates of energy. If he doesn't even out his current energy, and replaces the Energy Search for one of each energy, then he has the original energy set. So it's not that irrelevant. Plus, Energy Search is more in there for convenience. If there was a card to replace it to make the deck more fluid, then it would be easy to take out the searchs, but switch is just as conditional. It's only so often that there is a pokemon on the bench with energy that could be moved to make the game sealed. So, its more preference to use Energy Search, or Energy Switch, or what have you. Ultimately, it's up to suicidalnuns on what he wants to do.

 

[Mora]

Okay, this is getting confusing.

I concur

It's only so often that there is a pokemon on the bench with energy that could be moved to make the game sealed.

Are you forgetting the main attacker, the one with the ability that puts in on the Bench with three energy from the discard?

 

[Koga7737]

Are you forgetting the main attacker, the one with the ability that puts in on the Bench with three energy from the discard?

...Okay, I'll admit I often forget that I have Ho-ohs and energy in the discard pile (after I out on the bench already) so you win this round. Honestly, I never thought to use his ability in conjunction with Energy Switch, since I was always worried about boosting each Ho-oh to get ready for attacking. Welp, I have some testing to do now