I need help building a rain team for VGC.
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RE: Good rain team?
Please, for the future, I would advise not making three threads for weather teams, they take up unneeded space, you're better off just combining the three threads, or asking for help from one of the other members.
Anyways...I'd say add Dugtrio because of the fact that he can trap and kill the other weather users, and can even potentially trap and kill threats to this team. That's all I can really say for now, as I woke only awhile ago, and my brain is not working all that much right now.
QWERTY DITTO said:
Please, for the future, I would advise not making three threads for weather teams, they take up unneeded space, you're better off just combining the three threads, or asking for help from one of the other members.
Anyways...I'd say add Dugtrio because of the fact that he can trap and kill the other weather users, and can even potentially trap and kill threats to this team. That's all I can really say for now, as I woke only awhile ago, and my brain is not working all that much right now.
RE: Good rain team?
Drizzle is mostly self sufficient, if you can keep the rain up then the advantage is yours. Kingdra and Ludicolo are probably the most well rounded Swift Swim users, so if you are looking for a solid build then I'd check them out.
Drizzle's biggest problem is that because of its popularity, many people seek to counter it. This could be by running Swift Swim users of their own, running different weather conditions, or simply loading their team with Pokemon who can punish Water types like Gastrodon and Toxicroak. What separates an average Drizzle team from a good one is the ability to deal with these counters.
You will probably want to run a Rain Dance user somewhere in the team in case Politoed loses the weather war. As Thundurus is becoming increasingly popular, you will also want to keep tabs on your Electric weaknesses (don't bother with Lightning Rod support, Discharge makes it redundant and it's a popular attack). Many people will respond to Drizzle with Trick Room users, so it's important to be able to stop that with Taunt users or perhaps Sleep inducers.
Drizzle is mostly self sufficient, if you can keep the rain up then the advantage is yours. Kingdra and Ludicolo are probably the most well rounded Swift Swim users, so if you are looking for a solid build then I'd check them out.
Drizzle's biggest problem is that because of its popularity, many people seek to counter it. This could be by running Swift Swim users of their own, running different weather conditions, or simply loading their team with Pokemon who can punish Water types like Gastrodon and Toxicroak. What separates an average Drizzle team from a good one is the ability to deal with these counters.
You will probably want to run a Rain Dance user somewhere in the team in case Politoed loses the weather war. As Thundurus is becoming increasingly popular, you will also want to keep tabs on your Electric weaknesses (don't bother with Lightning Rod support, Discharge makes it redundant and it's a popular attack). Many people will respond to Drizzle with Trick Room users, so it's important to be able to stop that with Taunt users or perhaps Sleep inducers.
RE: Good rain team?
I say go with Kingdra and Ludicolo as well. Kingdra is an excellent weather abuser who can outspeed almost anything in the rain and can dish out huge damage with DD, Outrage and Waterfall.
A Rain Dancer might be useful in some cases, but in my opinion it's not always needed. What can prove useful is run a Gastrodon yourself. It can get powered up by your teammates Surfs and is quite bulky, with very high HP. It can learn Rain Dance as well, but that's up to you.
As an extra guy, you can try Rotom-W. It's bulky as well, and benefits from Rain in both STAB Hydro Pump and STAB Thunder.
Another thing you might need is run a flyer, perhaps a Hurricane user, or run Ice beam in your water types for potential Grass threats.
Trick Room strategies now... They can definitely prove threatening, but remember this: in most Trick Rooms, the second opposing Pokemon often uses Protect during the Trick Room setup. This leaves the Trick Room setuper vulnerable to attacks. And since Trick Room always goes last, landing two STAB, Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps might as well take it out.
Finally, electric attackers. Although, as bacon pointed, Discharge makes LightningRod useless (partly), it's still a good idea to run one. It will deal with enemy Thunder users, and dish out a lot of damage itself with its own Thunder. If the opposing electric isn't flying, then Gastrodon takes its pick. Otherwise, if it's a Thundurus for example, just fire your Hydro Pump at it. Both Kingdra and Ludicolo can OHKO in the rain with good nature and EV spread.
Apart from these, however, there's a whole array of strategies to try with Rain. Vaporeon, Gorebyss, Thundurus, even Kabutops or Relicanth are all to be considered
I say go with Kingdra and Ludicolo as well. Kingdra is an excellent weather abuser who can outspeed almost anything in the rain and can dish out huge damage with DD, Outrage and Waterfall.
A Rain Dancer might be useful in some cases, but in my opinion it's not always needed. What can prove useful is run a Gastrodon yourself. It can get powered up by your teammates Surfs and is quite bulky, with very high HP. It can learn Rain Dance as well, but that's up to you.
As an extra guy, you can try Rotom-W. It's bulky as well, and benefits from Rain in both STAB Hydro Pump and STAB Thunder.
Another thing you might need is run a flyer, perhaps a Hurricane user, or run Ice beam in your water types for potential Grass threats.
Trick Room strategies now... They can definitely prove threatening, but remember this: in most Trick Rooms, the second opposing Pokemon often uses Protect during the Trick Room setup. This leaves the Trick Room setuper vulnerable to attacks. And since Trick Room always goes last, landing two STAB, Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps might as well take it out.
Finally, electric attackers. Although, as bacon pointed, Discharge makes LightningRod useless (partly), it's still a good idea to run one. It will deal with enemy Thunder users, and dish out a lot of damage itself with its own Thunder. If the opposing electric isn't flying, then Gastrodon takes its pick. Otherwise, if it's a Thundurus for example, just fire your Hydro Pump at it. Both Kingdra and Ludicolo can OHKO in the rain with good nature and EV spread.
Apart from these, however, there's a whole array of strategies to try with Rain. Vaporeon, Gorebyss, Thundurus, even Kabutops or Relicanth are all to be considered
That says everything.DNA said:
RE: Good rain team?
I have not used a Drizzle/Rain Dance team for a while, so take what I have to say about its viability for the VGC 2013 with a grain of salt. Like other users have said, Drizzle is[/i] used commonly and generally every team will have something to combat it. Other weather uses (Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Ninetales, Abomasnow) are the most effective I think, especially Tyranitar and Abomasnow. Both of them can take Rain Dance's attackers. Yes, even Tyranitar with sand storm present and investment in HP will absorb enough water attacks to do enough damage for your ally to clean up. Drizzle's main attackers seem to be bulky water types, such as Politoed, Jellicent, and Kingdra primarily using Hydro Pump, Scald, and Surf. However, the Thundurs and Tornadus also see a lot of usage because of their inherent speed and the power of STAB Thunder and Hurricane, respectively.
In my experience, I have not found Drizzle to be too much of a problem if you have a counter weather poke. Politoed and Jellicent are easy to KO with an electric type and stuff like Seismotode and Toxicroak and not hard to deal with. Kingdra without Swift Swim is in a similar vein to Politoed; bulky and moderately powerful, but as long you can tank its Hydro Pumps or Surfs, it's manageable.
My advice is, if you are going with Drizzle, go all-out with the offense: use life orbs, choice specs, and water gems. If you are using Surf as a strategy, do as much damage as possible. If you are afraid of dragon types and water types even, a STAB Surf coming from a Kingdra or Ludicolo in the rain, boosted by Life Orb or Choice Specs (evening Helping Hand) still does decent damage while wrecking almost everything else]/b]. As long as you can prevent yourself from being walled by Dragon, Water, and Grass types (an easy solution to this is a Boltbeamer, or one of the Lati twins) and as long as you can still function effectively without Rain (again, a STAB Hydro Pump from Kingdra or Ludicolo with a Life Orb or Choice Specs wrecks nearly everything), then Rain is viable.
The trick is fooling your opponent into thinking you need the rain. Parasect is a greater curve ball trick room counters and Rotom-W is simply hard to deal with all the time, but focus on big damage and one-hit knock-outs.
I have not used a Drizzle/Rain Dance team for a while, so take what I have to say about its viability for the VGC 2013 with a grain of salt. Like other users have said, Drizzle is[/i] used commonly and generally every team will have something to combat it. Other weather uses (Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Ninetales, Abomasnow) are the most effective I think, especially Tyranitar and Abomasnow. Both of them can take Rain Dance's attackers. Yes, even Tyranitar with sand storm present and investment in HP will absorb enough water attacks to do enough damage for your ally to clean up. Drizzle's main attackers seem to be bulky water types, such as Politoed, Jellicent, and Kingdra primarily using Hydro Pump, Scald, and Surf. However, the Thundurs and Tornadus also see a lot of usage because of their inherent speed and the power of STAB Thunder and Hurricane, respectively.
In my experience, I have not found Drizzle to be too much of a problem if you have a counter weather poke. Politoed and Jellicent are easy to KO with an electric type and stuff like Seismotode and Toxicroak and not hard to deal with. Kingdra without Swift Swim is in a similar vein to Politoed; bulky and moderately powerful, but as long you can tank its Hydro Pumps or Surfs, it's manageable.
My advice is, if you are going with Drizzle, go all-out with the offense: use life orbs, choice specs, and water gems. If you are using Surf as a strategy, do as much damage as possible. If you are afraid of dragon types and water types even, a STAB Surf coming from a Kingdra or Ludicolo in the rain, boosted by Life Orb or Choice Specs (evening Helping Hand) still does decent damage while wrecking almost everything else]/b]. As long as you can prevent yourself from being walled by Dragon, Water, and Grass types (an easy solution to this is a Boltbeamer, or one of the Lati twins) and as long as you can still function effectively without Rain (again, a STAB Hydro Pump from Kingdra or Ludicolo with a Life Orb or Choice Specs wrecks nearly everything), then Rain is viable.
The trick is fooling your opponent into thinking you need the rain. Parasect is a greater curve ball trick room counters and Rotom-W is simply hard to deal with all the time, but focus on big damage and one-hit knock-outs.