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I Scream for Icecream(Vanilluxe)

K

Kiefer_777

This is the all powerful genosect.
Member
Pokémon:

4x Vanillite
4x Vanillish
3x Vanilluxe
3x Oddish
2x Gloom
2x Vileplume
1x Bellosom
2x Cleffa
2x Pichu
2x Victini(Reflip)
=25

Trainer:

4x Collector
4x Sage’s Training
4x Twins
3x N
1x Professor Oak’s New Theory
4x Communication
3x Rare Candy
=23

Energy:

8x Water Energy
4x Rescue Energy
=12

Basically just use Vanilluxe to stall and Vileplume for no trainers.
 
I would suggest running a few Professor Elm's Training Method in this deck because you can set up Bellosom and Vaniluxe under trainer lock. I'd also run cheren over sage's because you don't want to deck yourself while doing 40 a turn.

-4 Sage's Training
-1 N
-1 Twins
+4 Cheren
+2 PETM
 
I'd put another PONT taking out a N, so you have more choices (and playing a trainer lock, a N will often help your opponent).

However, posting decklists copyed from Esa's blog isn't constructive for your player growth. You'll never be a good player if you don't even try to fix the lists you find on internet! (Just a piece of advice)
 
I know this isn't actually my deck. This is my bro's deck and I decided to start with that list and see what you guys think woulld help it.
 
Why do you have 3 Vanilluxe in a deck where Vanilluxe is the only attacker? You dont even run any form of recovery. Bellosom is complete trash, its not like you can stall for 12 turns to heal off all the damage. I also dont like N very much at all, all you do is help your opponent in the beginning of the game, and at the end their isnt anything they could do with a good hand anyways because they are locked.

2 Gloom is also unnecessary, just replace the 2nd Gloom for a 4th Candy. 2 Cleffa? A deck should never, ever run more than 1 Cleffa, and I personally dont even like it at all. If you have a great hand, you are forced to get rid of it into a worse hand if you dont want Cleffa to be killed. If you need to use Cleffa, you arent running enough draw power or hand refresh. Pichu would also be better sitting at 1.

Recovery is also very, very needed. If one Victini is prized and the other is killed early game by Yanmega, Catcher, or Glaciate, you are in deep trouble. It is also necessary in the MegaZone matchup. They easily snipe all your Oddishes, and you can use FSL to get them back. I once was down 4 prizes, and I was like 20 minutes in with MegaZone. All my Oddishes had been ko-ed. He N-ed me into FSL (thats why you shouldnt play N) and a Collector, so I just FSL-ed for 3 Oddish. I got the Vileplume set up and won the game because of FSL. You also really do not have enough draw support, even with Twins. I would at least add 2 Cheren, which is the most amazing card in this deck.

Here is it all summed up:

-0-1-1 Bellosom
-3 N
-2 Cleffa
-1 Pichu
+3 Professor Oaks New Theory
+2 Cheren
+1 Flower Shop Lady
+1 Rare Candy
+1 Vanilluxe
 
alexmf2 said:
Why do you have 3 Vanilluxe in a deck where Vanilluxe is the only attacker? You don't even run any form of recovery.
Click to expand...

If you read more thoroughly you'd see he has 4 rescue energy as recovery.
 
alexmf2 said:
Why do you have 3 Vanilluxe in a deck where Vanilluxe is the only attacker? You don't even run any form of recovery. Bellosom is complete trash, its not like you can stall for 12 turns to heal off all the damage. I also don't like N very much at all, all you do is help your opponent in the beginning of the game, and at the end their isnt anything they could do with a good hand anyways because they are locked.

2 Gloom is also unnecessary, just replace the 2nd Gloom for a 4th Candy. 2 Cleffa? A deck should never, ever run more than 1 Cleffa, and I personally don't even like it at all. If you have a great hand, you are forced to get rid of it into a worse hand if you don't want Cleffa to be killed. If you need to use Cleffa, you arent running enough draw power or hand refresh. Pichu would also be better sitting at 1.

Recovery is also very, very needed. If one Victini is prized and the other is killed early game by Yanmega, Catcher, or Glaciate, you are in deep trouble. It is also necessary in the MegaZone matchup. They easily snipe all your Oddishes, and you can use FSL to get them back. I once was down 4 prizes, and I was like 20 minutes in with MegaZone. All my Oddishes had been ko-ed. He N-ed me into FSL (thats why you shouldnt play N) and a Collector, so I just FSL-ed for 3 Oddish. I got the Vileplume set up and won the game because of FSL. You also really do not have enough draw support, even with Twins. I would at least add 2 Cheren, which is the most amazing card in this deck.

Here is it all summed up:

-0-1-1 Bellosom
-3 N
-2 Cleffa
-1 Pichu
+3 Professor Oaks New Theory
+2 Cheren
+1 Flower Shop Lady
+1 Rare Candy
+1 Vanilluxe
Click to expand...
What the f.. I think you have missed something very important about this deck. Me and my friend builded this list, and he went 4th in here Finland. So I think I know why those cards are there so I explain;

You don't need 4 Vanilluxe, because you have Rescue Energy. You need only 1 in the game. You have active Vanilluxe, which takes 2 prizes. When it dies, you have build another Vanilluxe/Vanillish on your bench. If you had Vanillish, you can evolve it because your KO'd Vanilluxe returned back to your hand. Then just keep it going.

This deck needs N just like other Vileplume decks. Yes, you don't need 4 copies, but I think that 3 is absolute minimium. You need N to disrupt your opponent, because he/she takes the first prize always. And you need N for antidecking card. Usually I draw the whole deck on my hand and then just use N and get ~15 cards back to my deck.

Bellossom is the 3rd important card in this deck, after Vanilluxe and Vileplume. You NEED IT or you will lose to Zekrom/Eelektrik, any Eelektrik deck or any Kyurem Deck. Eelektrik player can use Tynamos Thunder Wave (or what it is, that 40HP Tynamo's attack) and hit you with 10 dmg and paralyze. Then next turn their Zekrom KOs your Vanilluxe. If you have Bellossom, you can heal that 10 dmg away and just wait that they hit tails. Bellossom is also needed for Kyurems. Kyurems 2HKO your Victini if you don't have Bellossom. With Bellossom, it is 3HKO or even 4HKO. And against Cobalion/Kyurem decks, one Kyurem spread and then Cobalion's OHKO your Vanilluxes with Metal Press (or whatsoever that first attack is called). And because of Bellossom, you need to Play 2 Glooms that you can get Plume and Bellossom into play.

Reason to play 2 Cleffa is that this deck needs eeek. Start with Pichu, serach for 2 Vanillite, 2 Oddish and Cleffa. Then next turn just eeeek. If Cleffa is prized, you are in huge problems if you don't have drawn any supporters besides Twins. Smart player don't let you use your Twins in the early game. This deck can't run Juniper, because you have always something important in your hand. You can't play Cheren, because when you have setupped, you don't need Collectors, Candyes, Communications, Vanillites, Vanillishes, Oddishes, Glooms, Pichus, Cleffas etc. You have so many cards that you WANT to discard, that you can't play Cheren over Sage.

Rescue Energy is enough recovery. Yes, you can lose 2 Oddishes because you didn't draw candy + plume. But that happens like once in 50 games. I have played over 100 games and I have had only one game where I have lost all my Oddishes before i could evolve them. This deck gets usually T2 Vileplume without Twins, so I don't understand why you want to play FSL. Okay, vs Typhlosion they can discard your Rescue Energy with Typhlosion. Then just put 2 Rescue Energy to your active Vanilluxe and problem solved. And if you are stupid, you play Victini before you have setupped Plume. I never lay down Victini before I have Plume in play, so I don't understand how they can Catcher it. People should playtest decks before you suggest any changes <____>.

EDIT: And about Unown Cure, yes it gives some problems if you use it correctly, but I think that it doesn't help that much.
 
Tontsasd said:
What the f.. I think you have missed something very important about this deck. Me and my friend builded this list, and he went 4th in here Finland. So I think I know why those cards are there so I explain;

Nice job, I play this as well, but i'm guessing your list is at least in some ways different than his. Its not like they are exactly the same.

You don't need 4 Vanilluxe, because you have Rescue Energy. You need only 1 in the game. You have active Vanilluxe, which takes 2 prizes. When it dies, you have build another Vanilluxe/Vanillish on your bench. If you had Vanillish, you can evolve it because your KO'd Vanilluxe returned back to your hand. Then just keep it going.

And what about when you play Magnezone? It is also a lot harder to draw into one if you only play 3.

This deck needs N just like other Vileplume decks. Yes, you don't need 4 copies, but I think that 3 is absolute minimium. You need N to disrupt your opponent, because he/she takes the first prize always. And you need N for antidecking card. Usually I draw the whole deck on my hand and then just use N and get ~15 cards back to my deck.

And what about when you are about to deck and you only have 2 prizes left? If they kill that Vanilluxe and you dont draw a god hand, your in a pretty tight spot. As I said before, it only helps them early game, and hurts you late game. Its not like hand refresh is a bad thing, thats the entire reason people play PONT in the first place. PONT is just as good as an antidecking card.

Bellossom is the 3rd important card in this deck, after Vanilluxe and Vileplume. You NEED IT or you will lose to Zekrom/Eelektrik, any Eelektrik deck or any Kyurem Deck. Eelektrik player can use Tynamos Thunder Wave (or what it is, that 40HP Tynamo's attack) and hit you with 10 dmg and paralyze. Then next turn their Zekrom KOs your Vanilluxe. If you have Bellossom, you can heal that 10 dmg away and just wait that they hit tails. Bellossom is also needed for Kyurems. Kyurems 2HKO your Victini if you don't have Bellossom. With Bellossom, it is 3HKO or even 4HKO. And against Cobalion/Kyurem decks, one Kyurem spread and then Cobalion's OHKO your Vanilluxes with Metal Press (or whatsoever that first attack is called). And because of Bellossom, you need to Play 2 Glooms that you can get Plume and Bellossom into play.

IF they play the 40 hp version, IF they flip heads, and IF they havent already evolved their Tynamos. It just seems like a waste of space and time to me, but I guess it only takes up 2 spots. Against CaKE, only someone not to smart would charge up their Kyurems instead of Cobalion, Cobalion 1HKOs Vanilluxe, which is how this deck loses.

Reason to play 2 Cleffa is that this deck needs eeek. Start with Pichu, serach for 2 Vanillite, 2 Oddish and Cleffa. Then next turn just eeeek. If Cleffa is prized, you are in huge problems if you don't have drawn any supporters besides Twins. Smart player don't let you use your Twins in the early game. This deck can't run Juniper, because you have always something important in your hand. You can't play Cheren, because when you have setupped, you don't need Collectors, Candyes, Communications, Vanillites, Vanillishes, Oddishes, Glooms, Pichus, Cleffas etc. You have so many cards that you WANT to discard, that you can't play Cheren over Sage.

If you really want Cleffa, at least only play one. If the first gets knocked out, you should never, ever need to bring up that second one. If you need to rely on Cleffa so much, you really dont run enough draw power. And they have to knock out something eventually, and you can be setting up all the while. It doesnt matter how much they get set up, once they are locked there is nothing they can do.

Rescue Energy is enough recovery. Yes, you can lose 2 Oddishes because you didn't draw candy + plume. But that happens like once in 50 games. I have played over 100 games and I have had only one game where I have lost all my Oddishes before i could evolve them. This deck gets usually T2 Vileplume without Twins, so I don't understand why you want to play FSL. Okay, vs Typhlosion they can discard your Rescue Energy with Typhlosion. Then just put 2 Rescue Energy to your active Vanilluxe and problem solved. And if you are stupid, you play Victini before you have setupped Plume. I never lay down Victini before I have Plume in play, so I don't understand how they can Catcher it. People should playtest decks before you suggest any changes <____>.

Putting two rescue energy on one Vanilluxe is a great example of why you should play FSL. Also, what if you start with Victini or an Oddish? You can say bye bye to it. And if you draw it with Sage's Training, only you need the other cards in it? I have tested this for 3 weeks, and have taken it to 2 CC's. One I made 4th place, the second I only just missed top cut because I had awful resistance.

EDIT: And about Unown Cure, yes it gives some problems if you use it correctly, but I think that it doesn't help that much.
Click to expand...

Replies in bold
 
Well, if he plays the list that is in this topic, then we play almost same lists (I play 4 N and 3 Communication).

Magnezone needs 3 Energy to OHKO your Vanilluxe. And i think that they can't get more than 2 Magnezones out if you get fast Plume. I usually have 1-2 Vanilluxe, 0-1 Vanillish Vileplume and Victini setted up by turn 3, always by turn 4. It may be harder to draw Vanilluxes because I play 3, but I have Twins and i had to get room to Bellossom, so we dropped Vanilluxe, because it's not needed. Yes it isn't nice if you draw 2 Vanilluxe and more important Cards with Sage, but thats very rare that something like that happens.

And about N, you just have to play smart. You just load energies to your benched Vanilla and N before your Vanilluxe is knocked out. Then you have 1-1-1 line of Vanilluxe in your hand and fully loaded Vanillish/Vanilluxe active. Sometimes you can fully load 2 Vanilluxes to your bench before your first Vanilluxe dies.

PONT is good antidecking card, but if you have ~10 cards (including PONT) in your hand and 0 in your deck, would you like to use pont to get 3 cards back to your deck or N and get ~7 cards back to your deck?

And i don't see any point that somebody plays more than 2 30HP Tynamos, because they are OHKO'd by Kyurem. Usually people play 3 40 HP and 1 30 HP or 4 40 HP. And why they should evolve their Tynamos because they know that they can win with Tynamos' attack? And they have time to build another Zekrom manually, because you are no going to ko your opponent's pokemon by 1 attack.

Against CaKE, yes they play with Cobalions. But we have tested that matchup, and 4 Cobalion just isn't enough if they don't get 4 or more energy from Energymite. They can get 4 prizes with Cobalions, so they have to use Kyurems in some point. They have to use Kyurem if they don't get T2 Energymite and fully loaded Cobalion or Kyurem and start taking prizes. And usually people doesn't even play 4 Cobalion, usually 3 Cobalion and 3 Kyurem. You can heal all damage what they do with Glaciate before they can use it again.

Playing 2 Cleffa is just for consistancy. If Cleffa is prized, your setup slows down. I use Cleffa in every match I play, because there are so many cards you need to get to setup fast. If they knock out something in turn 1, you have trouble if you can't get behind cleffa. If you don't have Twins, and even if you have, you just get 2 cards from your deck. You can search Candy + Plume. Then eeek, you get new fresh hand. Then hopefully you got Vanillishes and energies and another supporter that you can set up more. You can't give more than 3 prizes before start attacking. 1 Vanilluxe gets 2 prizes and goes down. You need something that speeds up your setup and guards you while you setup.

If I start with Victini or Oddish, then I just retreat it and use Pichu/Cleffa to start my setup. If they kill them, it doesn't matter. I still have 1 more Victini and 2 more Oddishes. Yes it is problem if they are prizes or I need Bellossom, but usually they go after Vanillushes because it slows down your setup very much. You just have to play smart. But that point about FSL is true, I didin't even remember that we have FSL. No I remember, that I lost one game in your last CCs because I didin't have enough energy. 2 Rescue was prized, I needed to retreat Victini from start and needed to discard one more water with Sage on first turn. Then I had to retreat catchered Gloom, and then mu 1 energy Vanillish was killed. I think that I put FSL in my deck just because then I can discard energies and don't need to worry that I don't have enough energies.

I played this deck last saturday, went 3-3. First loss was against Zekrom, who donked my lone Pichu (my hand was like Pichu, Twins, Plume, Bellossom, Sage, Energy and Vanillish, so it was pretty godstart). Second loss was against 6 corners. I had awful start and even with cleffa I couldn't recover. He killed my 2 Oddishes and 3. one was prized :/. Last loss was against Zekrom/Eelektrik/Thundurus. I have good start, but I ran out of Energy. And I flipped once 4x tails and he played Eelektross because of Vanilluxes. Yeah, I could have won that last match if I could have played FSL. But to other losses, it doesn't have mattered if I had played FSL.

Could you share your list with me? I'm very interested about your list because you have done so well with it and it sounds interesting. It's always good to see another list and another thoughts about same deck. I have tested Vanilluxe since NV was released and I want to make a very consistent and good list that I could play in our CCs.
 
instead of running a 4-4-3 line I would run a 4-3-4 line (I ran into a deck alot like this at cities it's a very good deck I ended up going 1-1 prizes over time before he got 4 tails in a row bye bad luck and I was able to KO him) also take out pichu it's no help here and max out your rare candies if your going to run 2 stage 2 pokemon also take out 1 twins and add 2 Oaks for better drawing power

hope I helped :)
 
The Pikachu Mafia said:
instead of running a 4-4-3 line I would run a 4-3-4 line (I ran into a deck alot like this at cities it's a very good deck I ended up going 1-1 prizes over time before he got 4 tails in a row bye bad luck and I was able to KO him) also take out pichu it's no help here and max out your rare candies if your going to run 2 stage 2 pokemon also take out 1 twins and add 2 Oaks for better drawing power

hope I helped :)
Click to expand...

The problem I see with ur theory is in this kind of deck, you can't sacrafice consistancy for speed
 
? your point? it's still easy to swarm just if you max out them rare candy and viniluxture in the long run you'll end up with more of them on the bench it just makes sense to me. (not to mention if your running several stage two pokemon in any sort of deck your going to want rare candy)

4 twins just isn't necessary I run 3 and it's always more than enough for me.

and on pichu it's just too many babies you don't need both pichu and cleffa what if you start with a lone baby (it's not fun to donk) sure you want them in your staterish position but you don't wanna actually start with them so Pichu OR Cleffa would work just fine (leaning towards cleffa but it doesn't really matter)
 
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