Ideas for dusknoir and the rise of spread decks!

I've actually tested with Pokedex Ether engine. You need to run a lot of basic energy in your deck to maximize the chances of getting al least one in your five cards. Don't even bother with Musharna. There is a very low chance you'll hit an Energy in the top two. Hitting one in the top five is unlikely enough. Yes, it does work. It works pretty well if you run enough Energy. But, it's unreliable, since only about a fifth of your deck is Energy. Still, in the early game you have a pretty good chance of hitting an Energy.
You're welcome, btw :)
 
I wonder.... If the new Lugia EX works with dusknoir.... I mean, you can spread with landorus, then move the damage onto an EX and ko it with Lugia to take 3 prizes... ( the deck wouldn't be viable until our winter set comes out, but it's a nice idea on paper....)
 
That sounds like a pretty good idea, actually, I think it can work. If no EXs show their faces then you can proceed to use Landorus, and use Lugia for the last couple prizes, since Landorus would stumble and come crashing down late game. Sounds like a plan. How about this:

3 Landorus EX
2 Lugia EX
3 Duskull
1 Dusclops
3 Dusknoir

4 Heavy Ball
2 Level Ball
4 Colress Machine
3 Switch
3 Catcher
4 Rare Candy
2 Random Receiver

3 Juniper
4 N
3 Cheren

4 Plasma Energy
8 Fighting Energy

That puts us at 56 cards if I counted right. I do feel like I missed a major card though, so feel free to tell me what it is, if I did.
 
9Tailz said:
That sounds like a pretty good idea, actually, I think it can work. If no EXs show their faces then you can proceed to use Landorus, and use Lugia for the last couple prizes, since Landorus would stumble and come crashing down late game. Sounds like a plan. How about this:

3 Landorus EX
2 Lugia EX
3 Duskull
1 Dusclops
3 Dusknoir

4 Heavy Ball
2 Level Ball
4 Colress Machine
3 Switch
3 Catcher
4 Rare Candy
2 Random Receiver

3 Juniper
4 N
3 Cheren

4 Plasma Energy
8 Fighting Energy

That puts us at 56 cards if I counted right. I do feel like I missed a major card though, so feel free to tell me what it is, if I did.
Click to expand...

Nothing in there searches for Lugia EX, which makes it harder to surprise attack with. You also don't have any DCE (Not sure if you intended that or not). I'd change the 2 Level Balls to 2 Ultra Ball (2 Heavy Ball would work as well, I just hate Level Ball in these types of decks), and for the last 4 spots, maybe another Catcher, another Supporter (Cheren I guess) and 2 DCE.

If First Ticket comes out next set (Or the set after that), that would be a good inclusion as well. Since this deck has potential to donk and KO basics before they evolve. For first ticket spots, I'd take out the Catcher and Cheren I added, as well as maybe a Heavy Ball and a Rare Candy. The deck seems to have enough search (5 Balls) and the deck doesn't need to get Dusknoir out too function, so you should be able to afford getting it out turn 3 or 4, and it's still not too hard to get it out on turn 2 with 3 Rare Candy.

The deck definitely seems promising. Hopefully, there will be more Plasma-based cards to help out Lugia.

~MtC
 
I think a variant of Flygon/Dusknoir without Celebi would be a lot better. From what I remember, the main strength of the deck was the fact that it doesn't have to run any energy, so that gives you room for a ton of extra search. Skyla also makes it a lot more viable, since you can get trainers whenever you need them.
 
Ah, so I was missing DCE. More Plasma cards will be nice. I think there's going to a Plasma Ball that searches out a Plasma Pokémon, a few Tools, and there's probably going to be Team Plasma Supporters like Ghetsis and Corless. Anyway, I agree with those changes.I like the idea of using First Ticket to donk. This is one of the few decks where First Ticket is a viable option to play.

As for Flygon/ Dusknoir, I think either version is a viable option to play. The Celebi version helps spread more damage and is a little slower and less consistent due to having to run Energy. While the straight Flygon version is faster, it's weak to opposing Dragons (*cough* Vibrava *cough*) and has a lower damage output. I personally think Celebi/Flygon/Dusknoir has an advantage over Flygon/Dusknoir, but with a very consistent list you could beat it.
 
The Pikachu Mafia said:
I wonder.... If the new Lugia EX works with dusknoir.... I mean, you can spread with landorus, then move the damage onto an EX and ko it with Lugia to take 3 prizes... ( the deck wouldn't be viable until our winter set comes out, but it's a nice idea on paper....)
Click to expand...
Why would you need Dusknoir? When your opponent drops an EX or 2 you just damage them with Landorus EX and then clean up with Lugia EX don't you think?.
 
Good point. Very good point. Although Eviolite hurts you, you can just run Tool Scrapper, which also doubles as a Garbodor counter.
 
Afro-G said:
Why would you need Dusknoir? When your opponent drops an EX or 2 you just damage them with Landorus EX and then clean up with Lugia EX don't you think?.
Click to expand...

the only promblem with that is I either need to:

A) use hammer head twice to ko an EX that might not even be around T1 (and the max potion possibility is also around)

or B) charge up that second, slightly less reliable attack. (max potion would still be a problem)

I think the biggest advantage dusknoir would bring here is allowing you drop a surprise lugia and to catcher ko any EX they play down at any turn in the same turn (excluding T1 and maybe T2) of course I haven't tested this out, but I like the idea on paper.
 
Well, only testing will tell. I'll build a deck both ways and bring you my results.
 
9Tailz said:
Well, only testing will tell. I'll build a deck both ways and bring you my results.
Click to expand...

JP scans ftw! xD

The only problem with testing decka this early on is we don't know how viable these decks are going to be. (We still don't have all the plasma gale scans and they could make new tier 1 decks off that. So unless we know what to test against, the results are going to be off.) idk if you're talking about testing later or not, but I wont be testing this deck for at least 1 month (so I can examine how popular certain JP decks are.)

thanks for contributing to the topic though :D I agree with alot of your ideas,they were thought out very well!
 
^ that's not a bad idea at all, I think it could work. However something seems to be holding me back from using it, I'll list the pros and cons to see how good it is:

Pros:

- It's easily searchable
- Great second attack and okay first attack
- Uses DCE and is splashable
- Free retreat (always very nice)
- fairly fast setup, potentially hitting for 170 T2 (imagine hitting a Black Kyurem EX with Crystal wall for 290 damage!)

Cons:

- Easily killed with only 60 hp
- can't effectively attack until T2
- Rattata can be sniped by darkrai
- weak to fighting (with only 60hp this isn't really a problem though.)
- He's a stage 1 adding to a stage 2, making the deck slower to an extent.

overall I think raticate is a fairly viable choice in Dusknoir decks, especially if black kyurem EX becomes popular. He would probably go best with Landorus EX for T1 damage, or registeel EX to abuse DCE. Thanks for mentioning him ^^

@Archeops: I said this before, but I really don't think Dusknoir should be put with other stage 2 cards. It's makes the deck more slow and the only thing you really get in return is EX immunity (which can easily be obtained with Sigilyph, or to an extent, Buffolant.)
 
What about registeel/Darkrai/Dusknoir.

Darkrai gives free retreat to 2 heavy retreat cost pokemon which can be searched by heavy ball. You can play a registeel T1 (Registeel active, attach DCE, dark patch to benched darkrai and use energy switch). Both pokemon have spread attack.
List:

Pokemon 13:
3 Darkrai EX
3-1-3 Dusknoir
3 Registeel EX

T/S/S 35:
3 Rare Candy
4 Catcher
3 Ultra ball
3 Heavy Ball
4 Dark Patch
2 Eviolite
3 Energy Switch
2 Random Receiver

4 Juniper
4 N
3 Bianca

Energy:
4 DCE
8 Darkness
 
that doesn't sound half bad, but you'll probably want to add mewtwo (because of DCE) and Computer Search (relatively awesome) also with all the spread manipulation you don't need 4 catcher and 3 energy switch as much (not to mention 4 dark patch is unnecessary if darkrai is your only dark pokemon) you could probably drop those + the random receiver and 1 dark patch for more Draw support/eviolite and Tool Scrapper (this card will be huge against garbodor)
 
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