It used to be the best deck but what do you think about its place in the game now?
Discussion Is Gardevoir GX Still Good in the Meta?
- Thread starter Ampharos142
- Start date
Buzzwole is so popular right now, and straight Gardy is so slow to set up when compared to Buzzwole. For Gardy to match up, you would really need to be drawing pretty perfectly to set up really fast. Zoroark/Gardy with mewtwo and mew EX could match up better. Zoroark/Gardy also has a better match up against malamar as it can hit ultra necrozma and dawn wings necrozma for weakness. So to fully answer your question, I’d say Gardy is not in the best spot currently to be a top deck.
Hey @Ampharos142!
I'm not sure if it is the "best" deck right now, but I'm pretty confident in Gardevoir GX variants being at least "Tier 2" decks (though I don't like using Tiers to rate things since everything is susceptible to immediate change). I've been playing Gardevoir GX/Talonflame for a while now and it has a really nice Buzzwole GX matchup (as long as you start with Talonflame of course
). The resistance and 130 HP are a buffer to Buzzwole GX's attacks, which they must use either of their two big moves (both require high amounts of energy) to take it out. I've won two League Cups with Gardevoir GX/Talonflame and I've only lost a couple of games (Glaceon GX/Zoroark GX gave me some trouble one round). If you don't start with Talonflame, it isn't extremely bad; I play a single Alolan Vulpix just in case, but getting it out means that you will usually win. If you need to, just pull out a Mew EX to take a quick K.O. on a Buzzwole GX while preserving your Gardevoir GXs on the bench. If you need a list for it, let me know and I'd be happy to provide one.
Hope this helps!
~FrostBiter12
I'm not sure if it is the "best" deck right now, but I'm pretty confident in Gardevoir GX variants being at least "Tier 2" decks (though I don't like using Tiers to rate things since everything is susceptible to immediate change). I've been playing Gardevoir GX/Talonflame for a while now and it has a really nice Buzzwole GX matchup (as long as you start with Talonflame of course
). The resistance and 130 HP are a buffer to Buzzwole GX's attacks, which they must use either of their two big moves (both require high amounts of energy) to take it out. I've won two League Cups with Gardevoir GX/Talonflame and I've only lost a couple of games (Glaceon GX/Zoroark GX gave me some trouble one round). If you don't start with Talonflame, it isn't extremely bad; I play a single Alolan Vulpix just in case, but getting it out means that you will usually win. If you need to, just pull out a Mew EX to take a quick K.O. on a Buzzwole GX while preserving your Gardevoir GXs on the bench. If you need a list for it, let me know and I'd be happy to provide one. Hope this helps!
~FrostBiter12
If you can consistently set one up turn 2 with at least 1 other Ralts on your bench and an Octillery, Diantha makes the deck strong and consistent enough to run things over. However, getting T2 Gardy, Octillery, and draw support is pretty hard.
Hey @Ampharos142!
I'm not sure if it is the "best" deck right now, but I'm pretty confident in Gardevoir GX variants being at least "Tier 2" decks (though I don't like using Tiers to rate things since everything is susceptible to immediate change). I've been playing Gardevoir GX/Talonflame for a while now and it has a really nice Buzzwole GX matchup (as long as you start with Talonflame of course
Hope this helps!
~FrostBiter12
FrostBiter, very grateful if you could provide a Gardy/Talonflame list. Just to jump in.
Thanks.
Gardevoir just doesn't get set up fast enough in our Malamar/Zoroark/Buzzwole format, unfortunately.
My prediction is that it will jump back to one of the BDIF's after rotation because of the sheer amount of cards that Zoroark and Buzzwole lose, and its ability to OHKO Ultra Necrozmas
My prediction is that it will jump back to one of the BDIF's after rotation because of the sheer amount of cards that Zoroark and Buzzwole lose, and its ability to OHKO Ultra Necrozmas
Hey @osmyth!
Sure, here you go! If you have any questions about the list, feel free to let me know (I've been trying to find a way to incorporate a single Skyla since I would like to have that versatility combined with Tapu Lele GX, but it isn't needed. The Super Boost Energy has helped so much and I'm glad that I chose to test with it before the tournament).
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 21
* 4 Talonflame STS 96
* 4 Ralts BUS 91
* 2 Kirlia BUS 92
* 3 Gardevoir-GX BUS 93
* 2 Gallade BKT 84
* 1 Mew-EX LTR 139
* 2 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60
* 1 Alolan Vulpix GRI 21
* 1 Remoraid BKT 32
* 1 Octillery BKT 33
##Trainer Cards - 27
* 2 N FCO 105
* 2 Choice Band GRI 121
* 4 Rare Candy SUM 129
* 4 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
* 1 Super Rod BKT 149
* 3 Guzma BUS 115
* 4 Ultra Ball SUM 135
* 2 Brigette BKT 134
* 2 Cynthia UPR 119
* 1 Parallel City BKT 145
* 2 Field Blower GRI 125
##Energy - 12
* 4 Double Colorless Energy SUM 136
* 7 Fairy Energy 9
* 1 Super Boost Energy {*} UPR 136
Total Cards - 60
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
Frostbiter, thanks.
I'm only a PokeDad so not really qualified to comment but...
If you aren't playing Diantha is it better to play more Cynthia and less Sycamore?
Interested in the Vulpix inclusion - what would you start that against, or is it just so, probability-wise, you start less with Ralts.
Also, sounds like SBE has an impact - is that mainly when starting with Talonflame and retreating to get an easy 'Stage 2' in play. Would you have won games anyway, once you had enough Garde/Gallade out?
We don't have the money for certain cards so we have:
Oranguru instead of Octillery, Mr. Mime or Mewtwo instead of Mew EX and Mysterious Treasure as a Lele proxy (we have 1 Lele) for trying to get T1 Brigette as often as poss.
Thanks.
I'm only a PokeDad so not really qualified to comment but...
If you aren't playing Diantha is it better to play more Cynthia and less Sycamore?
Interested in the Vulpix inclusion - what would you start that against, or is it just so, probability-wise, you start less with Ralts.
Also, sounds like SBE has an impact - is that mainly when starting with Talonflame and retreating to get an easy 'Stage 2' in play. Would you have won games anyway, once you had enough Garde/Gallade out?
We don't have the money for certain cards so we have:
Oranguru instead of Octillery, Mr. Mime or Mewtwo instead of Mew EX and Mysterious Treasure as a Lele proxy (we have 1 Lele) for trying to get T1 Brigette as often as poss.
Thanks.
Hey @osmyth!
Sure, anytime! I'm always happy to help! As for your other questions...
For the supporter count, the reason I play four Prof. Sycamore is because I'm only going to be able to use Talonflame once (and that may not even be a possibility), so higher Prof. Sycamore counts allow me to discard them more often. If I've discarded too many valuable resources, I'll usually Twilight GX them (and a bunch of other stuff) back into the deck. Diantha isn't really the best in this deck as there are very little times you get to use it and a good amount of your attackers aren't Fairy type. Consistency is the key when it comes to these Stage 2 decks, so I try to make it that way as much as possible (with the odd tech here and there of course
).With Alolan Vulpix, I normally try to get it into the active if I don't get Talonflame in play (and so I don't start with Ralts all of the time, making it less vulnerable as you were mentioning). It is really just there for backup so I'm not left stranded without Talonflame.
The Super Boost Energy was one of my own ideas and I personally think it has great synergy with the rest of the deck. Most of the time, I'll use SBE only if I start with Talonflame since it provides one of the three Stage 2s needed to get the effect in play; the rest aren't hard to get out afterwards (though there have been rare cases where I've used it in other scenarios). If I feel comfortable enough, I'll typically search it out with Talonflame if I have other resources in hand to get out the last Stage 2(s) since it is hard to find the single copy in a large deck. If not, I'll just draw into it at random times and since it is so versatile (it practically is just another Fairy Energy if I don't have 3 Stage 2s in play though I can't Secret Spring it), I've been able to use it almost every time I draw into it.
The Oranguru and Mewtwo are fine replacements, they provide similar effects with some benefits and drawbacks of course, but I personally think that instead of a Mysterious Treasure, you should just play another Brigette (so it provides the same effect without having to search out your single Tapu Lele GX).
Anyways, let me know if you have any other questions I'd be happy to answer!
Hope this helps!
~FrostBiter12
@FrostBiter12
Thanks. Understand the points.
We'll look into buying another Brigette and an SBE. Think we're roughly covered on the others.
Looking at the deck options today with my son before a Challenge next weekend and Sheffield Regionals on June 16th.
Thanks. Understand the points.
We'll look into buying another Brigette and an SBE. Think we're roughly covered on the others.
Looking at the deck options today with my son before a Challenge next weekend and Sheffield Regionals on June 16th.
Hey @osmyth!
Cool, I wish you and your son luck at those tournaments! I'd be interested in hearing how they go, so let me know if you get the chance!
Thanks!
~FrostBiter12
With Necrozma-GX/Malamar making an immediate impact at tournaments (for a Gardy list) is there a natural tech counter to it.
Mew-EX is too expensive and Mewtwo uses oppo's energy, which almost certainly will have been discarded by Necrozma-GX, so is not suitable.
Thanks.
Mew-EX is too expensive and Mewtwo uses oppo's energy, which almost certainly will have been discarded by Necrozma-GX, so is not suitable.
Thanks.
Hey @osmyth!
If your worried about Malamar variants, options beside Mew EX include a higher count of Guzma and Parallel City to target Malamars (the point is to reduce your opponent's bench size while taking out their Malamars). There isn't really a direct counter just yet (I haven't done enough research on it), but I would just focus on pressuring your opponent and forcing them to come up with something using a lowered bench and Malamar count. One thing I would like to point out though is that only 56 people attended the Special Event in Mexico City and this was one of the first tournaments with FBL being legal. That means Malamar had the most hype going into it, but I'm not sure how accurate the tournaments are because of this fact (since I would think the majority of the people would be playing Malamar). I would keep an eye on more of the upcoming tournaments to get a better idea of how powerful Malamar is (that is just my opinion though).
Hope this helps!
~FrostBiter12
Ok, looks like the deck my son will be trying out this weekend is:
4 Ralts, 2 Kirlia, 3 Garde, 2 Gallade
4 Talonflame, 1 Alolan Vulpix
1 Lele, 1 Oranguru, 1 Mr. Mime
4 Ultra Ball, 4 Rare Candy, 2 Field Blower, 2 Choice Band, 1 Super Rod, 1 Town Map, 1 Mysterious Treasure, 1 Parallel City
4 Cynthia, 3 N, 3 Guzma, 2 Brigette, 1 Skyla
4 DCE, 7 Fairy energy, 1 SBE.
He really likes Town Map so can't get him to swap it!
4 Ralts, 2 Kirlia, 3 Garde, 2 Gallade
4 Talonflame, 1 Alolan Vulpix
1 Lele, 1 Oranguru, 1 Mr. Mime
4 Ultra Ball, 4 Rare Candy, 2 Field Blower, 2 Choice Band, 1 Super Rod, 1 Town Map, 1 Mysterious Treasure, 1 Parallel City
4 Cynthia, 3 N, 3 Guzma, 2 Brigette, 1 Skyla
4 DCE, 7 Fairy energy, 1 SBE.
He really likes Town Map so can't get him to swap it!
Hey @osmyth!
I would highly suggest a higher Professor Sycamore count as it is one of your best ways to discard Talonflames. Maybe cut a two Cynthia and an N so you can play three Prof. Sycamore. Other than that, as I was mentioning above, Mewtwo would be a great replacement for Mr. Mime and another Brigette would probably be better than the Mysterious Treasure (I know that I already said that above, I'm restating it just in case though). Besides that, everything else looks fine (not the biggest fan of Town Map myself, but if he feels that it is a good call, then he can play one I suppose). If he ever changes his mind about the Town Map, maybe another Prof. Sycamore would be nice since it would probably be a better for the deck consistency wise then Town Map would. I wish both of you luck this weekend (I'm going to need some myself since Virginia Regionals is this weekend as well and I'm hoping to make Top 32 or Top 16 in order to get more Championship Points).
Hope this helps!
~FrostBiter12
@FrostBiter12
Sorry, forgot to mention Sycamore, yes, will be playing 2/3.
Again, he likes Mr. Mime, but we'll see how it goes this weekend and how much Buzzwole is played.
Before this thread we only had (owned) 1 Brigette. We have now got another on your recommendation.
However, not spending any more money on the deck as my son doesn't play much and doesn't practice unless I nag him (which he doesn't like!).
He has always wanted to go to a Regional and thinks he can show up with a half decent deck and do well - not going to happen!
So, if he does ok at the Regional and wants to play/practice more then we'll look at more cards.
Good luck at the Regional.
Sorry, forgot to mention Sycamore, yes, will be playing 2/3.
Again, he likes Mr. Mime, but we'll see how it goes this weekend and how much Buzzwole is played.
Before this thread we only had (owned) 1 Brigette. We have now got another on your recommendation.
However, not spending any more money on the deck as my son doesn't play much and doesn't practice unless I nag him (which he doesn't like!).
He has always wanted to go to a Regional and thinks he can show up with a half decent deck and do well - not going to happen!
So, if he does ok at the Regional and wants to play/practice more then we'll look at more cards.
Good luck at the Regional.
As people have mentioned, standard Gardy is way too slow to be a top deck atm. I've been running Zoroark/Gardy (basically Tord Reklev's list with some minor modifications) for a couple months now, and have been fairly pleased with its results. Buzzroc is really the only really tough matchup in my eyes, and with Ultra Necrozma now in the fray, I think it likely that we will see less of that deck.
Zehuun, the top Gardy deck at Toronto Regionals was straight Gardy, in T16 (2 Zoro/Gardy in T32).
The only Gardy deck in Latin Am Internationals T32 was Talonflame/Gardy.
So, I don't think you need to restrict to Zoro/Gardy - it's whatever suits your style of play.
The only Gardy deck in Latin Am Internationals T32 was Talonflame/Gardy.
So, I don't think you need to restrict to Zoro/Gardy - it's whatever suits your style of play.
T2 Gardy:
I am helping my son prepare for Sheffield Regionals and working on setting up as best as possible. This means using a strategy that would, on average, give the best set up (as per comments above).
In some games my son has Cynthia'd when having Rare Candy or Gardy in hand.
I assume that, probability-wise, it is best to 'keep' the card in hand (and try to get the combo next turn) rather than trying to draw the Gardy combo on that turn by using Cynthia/N? Maybe getting T2 Kirlia as well if poss, to help a T3 Gardy.
Ideally it would mean drawing the two cards on the turn, or UB/Gardy and UB/Lele/Skyla/Rare Candy. Lele would probably have been used T1 for Brigette, so there are probably (max) 5 outs to Gardy/Gallade and 5 to Skyla/Rare Candy.
Thanks.
I am helping my son prepare for Sheffield Regionals and working on setting up as best as possible. This means using a strategy that would, on average, give the best set up (as per comments above).
In some games my son has Cynthia'd when having Rare Candy or Gardy in hand.
I assume that, probability-wise, it is best to 'keep' the card in hand (and try to get the combo next turn) rather than trying to draw the Gardy combo on that turn by using Cynthia/N? Maybe getting T2 Kirlia as well if poss, to help a T3 Gardy.
Ideally it would mean drawing the two cards on the turn, or UB/Gardy and UB/Lele/Skyla/Rare Candy. Lele would probably have been used T1 for Brigette, so there are probably (max) 5 outs to Gardy/Gallade and 5 to Skyla/Rare Candy.
Thanks.