Discussion Is Rayquaza GX Good after Rotation?

FlashRayquaza

FlashRayquaza

Rayquaza Fan
Member
Question is already in the title. Why I ask this? Because I want to invest in a Rayquaza GX deck as 1. Rayquaza is my favourite Pokémon 2. it is obviously a good deck (we see that at the results of the Japanese Championship).

Is it worth it? Rayquaza will be not cheap and if it has no chances postrotation it wouldn't make sense buying it.

Also, which other decks are in your opinion good after rotation?
 
Ray will be good. The more I look at it, the more I like it. It has access to Latias-PS, Raikou SHL, Zeroara, and if you want to be spicy, Beast Rings and Xurkitree/Pheromosa. Vikavolt is bad and you're better off playing Bulu.

Other good decks are Bulu, Malamar, and probably Buzzwole. Some variant of Trashalanche should also be good, but that's still up in the air.
 
gumball51321 said:
Ray will be good. The more I look at it, the more I like it. It has access to Latias-PS, Raikou SHL, Zeroara, and if you want to be spicy, Beast Rings and Xurkitree/Pheromosa. Vikavolt is bad and you're better off playing Bulu.

Other good decks are Bulu, Malamar, and probably Buzzwole. Some variant of Trashalanche should also be good, but that's still up in the air.
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Oh god I didn't even think of Beast Ring for Rayquaza, that's smart!

Anyway, Rayquaza has to be good post-rotation. Sure you lose great cards for it like Max Elixir, but like Gumball said you still have access to not only Latias PS for the time being, but one set later you get Zeraora-GX which is an instant one or two-of in Rayquaza. I've been thinking about how can I more easily Turbo these energies with these energy recursion effects. If you're already going to use Mysterious Treasure, I was thinking you could also include GRI Oricorio in your deck to search you energies and discard them through other methods (Unfortunatley post rotation means no more Sycamore to discard things we actually want in the discard pile but there are other methods like Ultra Ball and Mysterious Treasure).

He has to be good. The potential to set up multiple attackers all doing crazy amounts of damage sounds super dangerous.
 
The Japanese Rayquaza lists have been in my radar for the last couple of days.

I’ve gone from ‘absolutely not!’ To shrugging my shoulders to “kinda?...”

Here’s the thing, the meta benchmarks will be VikaBulu, Beast Bix, and Malamar / Ultra Necrozma GX. All 3 decks can put on the heat by turn 2. I’ve been trying to run numbers and scenarios and I don’t see what others are seeing. It seems like if you want to do 210 by turn 2, you need:

- to NOT start with Rayquaza GX. Latias Prism Star is also not preferable
- need T1 and T2 Energy drop
- Have all Rayquaza GX I’m deck and put into bench by T2
- Every Rayquaza GX needs to land Storm and Stress
- Choice Band

This is just to do 210 on T2. And whatever is in the active spot is dead, so you’ll always have to play catch-up in prize trade.

It is very plausible to overwhelm the opponent by brute force. But the fact that part of your strategy in keeping the power in the board lies in Latias Prism Star; between that and the need to have every rayquaza and everyone to land Storm and Stress makes me think that this deck will be the “new Greninja BREAK deck” in that it either ROFLstomos opponents, or if whiffs terribly due to its own inconsistency.

Also, if you lose Latias Prism or have no access to it (prizes), every Rayquaza you lose means 90 less damage you’re doing.

The fact that the deck loses Max Elixir hurts it considerably. It’ll gain a Zeraora GX later on and act as a tech that gives everyone “Float Stone”.

But Rayquaza is back, glass cannon as ever. The more things change, the more things stay the same.
 
GamePhoenix said:
I don't think straight Ray will be that great, but I'm thinking of teching it into VikaBula!
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I'd be careful about incorporating it in Bulu.

Ray (replacing Bulu) makes the deck slower. You can't hit 210 T2 unless you pull the godlies of hands. Like pulling a royal flush in Texas Hold 'Em sort of odds. Realistically, you're only pulling OHKO numbers by your T3.

If Gardevoir or Sylveon gets popular, you're in trouble (I think the aforementioned are too slow, but if Dragons become more of a thing, you'll see them).
 
gumball51321 said:
It has access to Latias-PS, Raikou SHL, Zeroara, and if you want to be spicy, Beast Rings and Xurkitree/Pheromosa.
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Beast Ring would be a great idea if there was a way to get them out consistently (maybe Volkner?), but I think it's too situational. Also, your list is missing Drampa, which is in my opinion better than Raikou.


Holden Sheeks said:
If you're already going to use Mysterious Treasure, I was thinking you could also include GRI Oricorio in your deck to search you energies and discard them through other methods (Unfortunatley post rotation means no more Sycamore to discard things we actually want in the discard pile but there are other methods like Ultra Ball and Mysterious Treasure).
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Oricorio isn't bad too, but again in my opinion too situational. It takes also up some bench space just for being useful once. Maybe Zoroark GX? You can discard energy and get consistency.

Merovingian said:
It’ll gain a Zeraora GX later on and act as a tech that gives everyone “Float Stone”.
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Do not forget that Zeraora does not only provide free retreat, but also great energy accleration with it's GX attack.
 
@Merovingian I think 210 T2 isn't necessary. Rayquaza can get the first two prize cards with 2HKO and then OHKO for the rest of the game. UN/Malamar and Beast Box also don't hit 210 every game T2, especially after rotation.
 
FlashRayquaza said:
@Merovingian I think 210 T2 isn't necessary. Rayquaza can get the first two prize cards with 2HKO and then OHKO for the rest of the game. UN/Malamar and Beast Box also don't hit 210 every game T2, especially after rotation.
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Beast Box doesn’t hit 210 on turn 2 (it does these numbers for revenge kills with Beast Ring), but it’s bopping you in the nose for 150 damage T2 every time and can maintain this pressure effortlessly and will always put you behind in the prize trade. Beast Energy Prism can put hits from Naganadel in OHKO territory on a Rayquaza GX. Though, that isn’t a primary focus and more of a “cherry on top”. With 4 Stakataka, it could take you up to 9 Energy to OHKO a Naganadel GX (8 if using Devoured Field). Box can afford to play the 2HKO game—it expects this. And can stream Acerola and have a new attacker without losing any tempo. Rayquaza GX can’t afford to lose energy on the Board and it’s recovery lies within Zeraora GX AND Latias Prism Star.

The deck feels like it does what Malamar does, but on a flimsier level.
 
The interesting thing about Rayquaza GX is that you actually want to over invest energy as much as possible so that when you lose a Pokemon, losing 90 damage won't matter.

What I mean by that is you should be ramping yourself up to have 9+ energy on the field at all times so that even if you lose 3, you're still okay and can rely on attach per turn to make sure you don't burn out.

It's a bit different mindset than discard attackers like UNGX.

The main issue Rayquaza GX needs to look out for is Gardevoir and/or Sylveon. You're not winning against Fairy decks with Rayquaza unless you tech in metal. I've been playtesting Gardevoir/Sylveon/Zoroark against UNGX and UNGX doesn't stand a chance so far. I will be doing more playtesting to see if I can outwit my own deck, but once Sylveon GX hits the table, it's all over. I think Gardy is a very real threat to Rayquaza GX at the same time post rotation and it would be best to start thinking of some anti-Fairy tech ASAP. UNGX already has Dusk Mane Necrozma Promo, but that doesn't work with Rayquaza GX.
 
I think a combination of Bulu and Ray might be the way to go until we get Zeraora GX. That way you aren't completely dead in the water against Fairy decks.
 
Bulu might not be a bad idea, but also kind of doesn't work until Zeroara GX comes out because we don't have a good way to get it accelerated. Things like Drampa and Latias Prism Star only affect Dragons, and Rayquaza GX only affects itself. We would be forced to use Vikavolt which is still in my opinion the worst possible solution for Rayquaza GX. Bulu is also a bit counter intuitive to Rayquaza since once it discards its 3 energy on attack, you lose momentum on Rayquaza GX.

I don't really think these two go together, at a glance.
 
I certainly think so. You can’t discount results in Japan right now. Max elixer goes away, but so does parallel city, which could be quite the detriment towards this deck. It seems like there is enough energy acceleration without elixer to make this deck very good.
 
Duo said:
The interesting thing about Rayquaza GX is that you actually want to over invest energy as much as possible so that when you lose a Pokemon, losing 90 damage won't matter.

What I mean by that is you should be ramping yourself up to have 9+ energy on the field at all times so that even if you lose 3, you're still okay and can rely on attach per turn to make sure you don't burn out.
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The problem is that will aggressive decks LET you get 9+ energy on the board. As of now, Latias Prism Star is your only ace in the hole to keep momentum going. And that's assuming they haven't taken it out with Guzma and 130 damage (because you have to get it out early or hope it doesn't get discarded through Storm and Stress).

It seems like a lot is riding on the back of Latias....or Zeraora GX when it comes out.

I know you've mentioned the Beast Ring tactic, which could also work, but the deck seems like it's maxed out on bench space as is (unless you use Ultra Necrozma so that you at least have a dragon for Latias Prism Star).

I don't know. The entire decktype screams, "I LOVE GAMBLING!"
 
latias prism seems unbelievable in this deck post-rotation. you could run full 4 copies of ultra ball and mysterious treasure, as well as a couple sophocles to get energies in the discard, which can then be accelerated both with rayquaza gx's ability as well as latias. honestly it sounds so broken i'd probably run a 1 of gladion to grab it out of the prizes rather than rely on a "meh" backup plan like raikou SHL. 1 good turn of set up and your OHKO'ing the rest of the game.

zeraora gx gets you free retreat to get latias' attack off turn 2 at latest, and is a pretty dang good attacker in its own right. just try not to bench it against buzz and i think you have yourself a tier 1 archetype post-rotation. buzzwole/malamar/zoroark i think will be sticking around after rotation as well though, will be interesting to see how everything shakes out!
 
Merovingian said:
The problem is that will aggressive decks LET you get 9+ energy on the board. As of now, Latias Prism Star is your only ace in the hole to keep momentum going. And that's assuming they haven't taken it out with Guzma and 130 damage (because you have to get it out early or hope it doesn't get discarded through Storm and Stress).

It seems like a lot is riding on the back of Latias....or Zeraora GX when it comes out.

I know you've mentioned the Beast Ring tactic, which could also work, but the deck seems like it's maxed out on bench space as is (unless you use Ultra Necrozma so that you at least have a dragon for Latias Prism Star).

I don't know. The entire decktype screams, "I LOVE GAMBLING!"
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I have my doubts about the deck as well, even with Zeroara GX. I think it'll be a fun deck to play but sort of like Darkrai EX, energy snowball decks (especially ones that rely on attacking for energy) don't really seem to last. I'm also looking at Ho-oh/Turtonator decks, and they have Kiawe at their disposal. I do want to point out as well that Rayquaza has no real answers to its weakness to Fairy (and fighting weakness in Zeroara GX doesn't help its case vs Buzzwole match ups either) while UNGX does.

The Beast Ring strat is too stiff and unreliable. It relies on having a game where you have bench space for an Ultra Beast, have the Beast Ring in hand at the right time of play, and is actually just completely unviable during the first few set up turns of the game. In the case of Rayquaza GX + Beast Ring, you are very much sacrificing cards for early game set up in order to lean on regaining control after your opponent takes the first 2-3. It's just not as good in a snowball deck and really just can't beat Malamar AND Beast Ring in UNGX/Necrozma GX. Rayquaza GX can't outspeed UNGX Beast Ring to Beast Ring. We're talking looping 3-4 energy cards for instant KOs versus 7-8 energy cards for instant KOs. Ultimately you're pumping out twice the energy for the same damage, and it can just never be as efficient because of that.

All that being said, I do believe there is a solution to this deck, and that solution will become more apparent once we actually have the cards in hand (or proxy). I'm considering proxying a list for testing, but not until I feel more comfortable with UNGX.
 
Does anyone realize that Rayquaza syerngizes well with Sceptile (grass energy=no buzz/U-Necrozma/Beast Box)? I realize Sceptile is a stage 2, and yes that is a problem, but the potential. The only thing to fear is Zoarark, (and Gardevoir if that ever recovers) and we can find a way to tech him dead. Plus sceptile can be a secondary attacker for one prize- for one grass it does the same thing as xerneas break.
 
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