I've been trying to put together a consistent list of Volcanion-EX / Tortunator-GX and some people have told me that the deck is no longer efficient and that it was outdated, so the question is: Does Volcanion-EX still have a competitive future?
Discussion Is Volcanion-EX Still a Good Deck?
- Thread starter Calanguitoo
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PMJ
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Yes, absolutely. Burning Shadows buffs Volcanion quite a bit, giving the deck Kiawe, Guzma, Acerola, and Ho-Oh-GX. In addition to this, Metagross is still a top deck, and Volcanion hits it for weakness.
I've been having this conversation with a couple people about Metagross and Solgaleo decks and the Volcanian match-up. It's actually not that bad for the Metal types, yes, Volca hits for weakness, but if the Metal player is even a bit set up, he can OHKO right back. I think the match-up is 60-40 volcanian, but its not its best matchup.
Its a win-more card that people think belongs in the deck. It's in there because it can OHKO stage 1 gx's. Not that the deck has any problems with that, but eh, to each their own.
PMJ
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Metagross players play Solgaleo now? I mean, I'm not hip to the tournament scene, so I don't know if they're actually doing this. I built it once as a joke.
Ignore what I said about Ho-Oh. If Gardevoir is as good over here as it is in Japan, having a four-Energy attacker on the field is going to be a huge liability.
Ignore what I said about Ho-Oh. If Gardevoir is as good over here as it is in Japan, having a four-Energy attacker on the field is going to be a huge liability.
I think 1 Ho-Oh GX could be good in a matchup against water decks, 'cause he's weak against lightning, so I'm considering a line w 4-3 Volcanion baby/EX, 1-1 Starmie EVO, 2-1 Tortunator GX/Ho-Oh GX and 2 Tapu Lele GX. I mean, this could be good, right?
And yeah Ho-Oh is specifically for that matchup, we can't put this card against Gardevoir GX.
And yeah Ho-Oh is specifically for that matchup, we can't put this card against Gardevoir GX.
Deck will certainly be a part of the top comp meta, one of the prime things to keep in mind however is to get out Kaiwe turn 1, which is fully possible but you have to dedicate your deck to it. So far Ive seen some good articles on the concept but running 1 Kaiwe for reasons unknown to me. If anything to remain consistent and have the constant edge I would run 2-3 Kaiwe combined with 2-3 Tapu Lele GX.
Since there are a few other topics on the subject I will also add in that I believe both Dragonite EX and Flareon EX are tech tools who are currently not discussed. Dragonite brings more as the Power aswell here, as he too doesn't have a water weakness but also stops the oppossing advantage as he removes oppossing active energy. At the same time Flareon EX is there to scoot over energies so the effect of a single Kaiwe is spread out. I believe these two factors are very important aswell.
The Pokemon line up I see being the most effective as a base however is quite the same as is allready popular with Volcanion, it's just that I don't believe Volcanion EX has to be ran 4 times to get enough advantage. In that same vein I dont believe you want to run Staryu either, it's a poor opening Pokemon and again what I wouldn't want to do is rely too much on the Volcanion engine, instead, run Pokemon who consistantly attack for 100-130 damage without that help. Enough room for Skyla so a Choice Band will do just fine in most cases.
Since there are a few other topics on the subject I will also add in that I believe both Dragonite EX and Flareon EX are tech tools who are currently not discussed. Dragonite brings more as the Power aswell here, as he too doesn't have a water weakness but also stops the oppossing advantage as he removes oppossing active energy. At the same time Flareon EX is there to scoot over energies so the effect of a single Kaiwe is spread out. I believe these two factors are very important aswell.
The Pokemon line up I see being the most effective as a base however is quite the same as is allready popular with Volcanion, it's just that I don't believe Volcanion EX has to be ran 4 times to get enough advantage. In that same vein I dont believe you want to run Staryu either, it's a poor opening Pokemon and again what I wouldn't want to do is rely too much on the Volcanion engine, instead, run Pokemon who consistantly attack for 100-130 damage without that help. Enough room for Skyla so a Choice Band will do just fine in most cases.
Volcanion got into top 8 at internationals in America I believe the only card it used that is getting rotated was vs seeker(and lysandre but that's got a better version in Guzma at least in volc decks) it will definitely be strong because of its speed and power one issue is that if it can't get up and running fast enough to take prizes early against gardevoir gx it will lose same with greninja. However volcanion can win against most decks and doesn't auto lose to anything so definitely a strong contender to look out for
IMO, Volcanion EX decks are still quite viable. However, from this point on, my particular build does not rely upon Max Elixir, Volcanion, nor Sky Field to setup. My focus is to leverage a 2 Kiawe, 2 Tapu Lele GXs, and 4 Ultra Balls "engine" in order to get 5 R energy into play T1. Thereafter, I plan to consistently take prizes. I'm still in the early stages of testing, but I'm having good results so far.
Despite what your Poké pals may think or tell you, if you like Volcanion, build your deck and have fun with it. "Rogue" decks can still do quite well.
I think the current variant of the deck is allready potent but I would say that the Kaiwe just turns it up to 11. Like TuxedoBlack one of the biggest factors here is Kaiwe consistancy and the way Tapu Lele GX allows us to be so consistent really means that a lot of decks are bound to have trouble with it.
The biggest difference in what is now the case and what is to come is that currently I believe the ideal Volcanion to start out with is the regular one, this will remain the case but most certainly others like Turtonator GX and/or Ho-Oh GX and/or Flareon GX will again bring up the consistancy of a great start. In the end that's a lot of consistent turn 1 Pokemon that are just really extremely good with one Kaiwe.
Now there is certainly a counter to be found to stuff like that in BS Alolan Ninetales but it being a stage 1 still means that the consistency of upcomming Volcanion decks is something I believe should gain the stability a competitive deck needs these days.
As for VS Seeker and it's removal from the format, I'm personally going to replace it with Escape Ropes. Now last time I played Warp Time was one of the best skill tester cards I loved for tournaments and I am eager to see if I can repeat that process.
The biggest difference in what is now the case and what is to come is that currently I believe the ideal Volcanion to start out with is the regular one, this will remain the case but most certainly others like Turtonator GX and/or Ho-Oh GX and/or Flareon GX will again bring up the consistancy of a great start. In the end that's a lot of consistent turn 1 Pokemon that are just really extremely good with one Kaiwe.
Now there is certainly a counter to be found to stuff like that in BS Alolan Ninetales but it being a stage 1 still means that the consistency of upcomming Volcanion decks is something I believe should gain the stability a competitive deck needs these days.
As for VS Seeker and it's removal from the format, I'm personally going to replace it with Escape Ropes. Now last time I played Warp Time was one of the best skill tester cards I loved for tournaments and I am eager to see if I can repeat that process.
I'm considering using the top 8 NA list with 4 volcanion and 2 max elixir, it seems pretty consistent, as I see it
Ok, I hope that build works well for you. You'll still need to make some revisions given the Rotation; so, be sure to checkout new cards like Acerola, Guzma, Kiawe, Sophocles, etc.
How does the deck deal with an Espeon confusion turn 2? Because It's hard to get anything going in matchups against Garb/Espeon and they just proceed to take out the baby Volc and i'm left with not much on set up for bench energy. Feels like there's nothing I could have done because I had no ways around confusion in my hand. Please give me tips so I can play that matchup better? What would a good player do? Just sit there and attach to bench?
Acerola, Escape Rope, Guzma (most likely since this Supporter will replace Lysandre), Float Stone, Pokémon Center Lady, Olympia, and/or Switch.
IMO, in this particular build, little Volcanion's role will change. It will not be the preferred starter; I plan to use Turtonator GX as my main attacker which can 1HKO the Espeon GX and the reverse may not be the same. So, the prize exchange will be (hopefully) be in my favor. Further, one can "control" both Espeon GX and Garbodor (Trashalanche) damage output to some degree too.
Refer to my first response to a list of options. One other random thought: Zoroark (Stand-in) can also be used.
Meh, I'm just gonna use Espeon/Garb. It beats volcanion with ease in testing. The confusion just is really hard to get past. 6 cards in your whole deck and if you don't draw them, you sit there and take a hit.
Ok so here is what I am seeing from this thread
If I may take a poll here, what is everyone's opinion on Marshshadow GX, worth or not? I don't think so but just want to see if I missed anything.
But if this tread is anything to go by, we are going to have some fun with this deck, it is just a matter of how.
- Ho-Oh GX= Volcanion's answer to water. Possible Kiawe Target
- Kiawe=GOD, just make sure you put it on a Turtanator or a Ho-Oh GX, otherwise we are just wasting energy.
- Espeon/Garb is a issue, me having played the top 8 NA list since basically day 3 of the event has grown accustomed to this. Kiawe should help with this, as long a you do it onto a benched pokemon, you just retreat next turn, do a few steam-ups and ko it.
- Greninja, oh please, if it ever becomes big use the giratina promo.
- Burning Shadows support is going to be good. Guzma combines Lysandre and Olympia (- the 30 heal). Acerola might see some utility, but to be honest, I don't see much use for it in this deck. Granted I have not played with AZ before so take that as you wish.
If I may take a poll here, what is everyone's opinion on Marshshadow GX, worth or not? I don't think so but just want to see if I missed anything.
But if this tread is anything to go by, we are going to have some fun with this deck, it is just a matter of how.
Good luck then. Similarly, I've had few issues beating Espeon-Garb (I too play this deck and know its short-comings).