Discussion Is Wailord-EX Viable?

GengarGuys

GengarGuys

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Last year's nationals was taken crazy for a number of reasons. First off Jason Klazynski Won his first Nationals and Second Wailord-EX deck became a thing. For those of you who don't know this what Wailord-EX does.


ABSOLUTELY NOTHING


Yeah it is pretty much just a 250 HP monster that uses Crushing Hammer, Enhanced Hammer, Max Potion, Hard Charm, Team Flare Grunt, Gold Potion, and Trick Shovel to annoy your opponent and deck them out. Unfortunately, Bunnelby/Garbodor/Sableye seems like the better option, but is it really? Please give me some input through the reply, I have been thinking of running this deck for a while.
 
nope, with all the grass pokemon and support that came out with Ancient Origins, its pretty much nonexistent. its one of those decks that come out to shock the meta, and then vanishes completely.
 
Well M Sceptile, and I know this seems really stupid, I just don't think the deck does too much. Only 100 Damage and heals off for 2 energy. Main attackers should be useful through out the game, not just late game. Now Vespiquen on the other hand is a bad matchup because it plays Bunnelby to get back energies that I discard. So it is one - two bad matchups. Seismitoad had the very same problem in 2014, but it still thrived.
 
I don't really feel Wailord is a viable deck anymore. Part of its success had to do with it being unexpected so players didn't know how to play against it. The other main problem is the format is much faster than it was when Nationals was going on. Its not uncommon to be hitting for 100+ damage a turn in today's format. Wailord just can't continually heal off that much damage. There is also a new Gengar from Breakthrough that can KO the active Pokemon if it has 3 or more damage counters on it for only 2 energy.
 
I think not because people run at least one bunnelby so they can deal with wailord at this point even I think other mill deck have a better chance than wailord.
 
GengarGuys said:
Well M Sceptile, and I know this seems really stupid, I just don't think the deck does too much. Only 100 Damage and heals off for 2 energy. Main attackers should be useful through out the game, not just late game. Now Vespiquen on the other hand is a bad matchup because it plays Bunnelby to get back energies that I discard. So it is one - two bad matchups. Seismitoad had the very same problem in 2014, but it still thrived.
Click to expand...

Vespiquen (XY: Ancient Origins 10/98) is the attacker that is a huge threat to Wailord-EX decks. The only reason it isn't an autowin is because competitive Vespiquen builds are
  • Notoriously low on Energy cards
  • Already prone to decking themselves out
The thing is they need all of three attacks against a Wailord-EX for the win because an experienced player will focus on those OHKOs. Other decks will have a different kind of struggle, but if they can get an attacker up front and keep up the pressure, sooner or later the Wailord-EX player runs out of healing and disruption cards. Plus lock decks can shutdown those tricks.

I do have a bias against the deck though. I personally don't like the deck because it is one of those decks where it wants you to hurry up and wait to slowly lose (contradictory sounding words intended). This makes it quiet tedious to face and quite irritating in competitive play. It even proves annoying on the PTCGO where you are often working to complete challenges but nope, either concede ASAP or watch 30-50 minutes of your time evaporate: even if you get the win, if you go long on time it can be counterproductive.
 
The primary issue with the Wailord EX deck is its Meta-Dependency. In a Meta that is not focused on hitting for OHKOs and extremely high damage every turn (Any Meta with a low count of Bees, Night March((though, this is a questionable match-up)), Primal Groudon, etc.), I believe Wailord EX can still perform extremely well. That said, when your first three rounds of a tournament end up being Bee, Bee, Night March, you are going to have a very rough time.

At the moment, Bees are still popular. Things like Cryo Mouth M Glalie EX are, in my opinion, going to start popping up alongside Faded Town/Ariados for the slow set-up, meaning Wailord EX, who literally does nothing (to M Glalie EX specifically), will literally become lunch. Things like Primal Groudon and M Ray Ray still exist and both hit for Amazing amounts of damage. Overall, while he can be a great deck to bring to a slower Meta, the main Meta is going to destroy it 9/10 times.

It really is unfortunate. The deck interested me when I first heard about it because the concept was so unique to me. Still, now that there is a bigger power spike in the Meta, I believe it is time to put the Big Blue Whale to rest from the Competitive Scene.
 
Wailord is viable, though it hasn't won anything. It hinders half the format and loses to the other half.
 
i want to make a mill deck, but not the regular sableye deck, i was thinking the us nationals winner wailord deck type, but is it in the meta? i thought about adding sableye...
 
Personally, I think the only reason that it did good was because it was off of almost everyone's radar. It wasn't teched for at Nationals, and I haven't heard or seen much of it since (I played against it once on PTCGO over the past 6 months). With cards like Bunnelby, Vespiquen, and Sceptile-EX/M Sceptile-EX running around, I don't think it would do well at all. Yes there is Suicune for a partner (to play against EX pokemon), Max Potion, AZ, Super Scoop Up/Scoop Up Cyclone, and now Puzzle of Time (to get back some of those resources if needed). However, it didn't play energy, and now Hex Maniac (also Silent Lab, Garbodor, and Lydsandre still exist, too) is around to get around Suicune. The deck does have a couple of things going for it, but it has a lot more going against it, which (to me) make it virtually unplayable.

Also, adding Sableye to it would mean also adding dark energy. That means you'd have to take out a minimum of 6-8 (3/3 or 4/4 split) cards that Wailord needed to achieve the level of success it did.

I hope this made sense, sorry if it didn't flow properly/something was unclear, I'm very tired.
 
Right what that guy said. No one saw it coming. In Standard, Bees is extremely prevalent - especially with Plume. In Expanded, Bees is still out there. Some of those big-winning Yveltal decks run Seismitoad to keep you from playing Items (if you go the Sableye route) but honestly isn't a good idea due to inconsistency - those slots where you're committing for Darkness Energy and Sableye could have gone to Trick Shovel, Hammers, etc.
 
I'd like to point out decks that now hit over 250 in standard atm, mega mewtwo Y (500+), yveltal (300+), vespiquen (200x2+), NM (260), greninja (280+)

It's not that wailord was unexpected, it's that wailord hit a sweet spot in the format, that every deck in standard at the time had a dmg cap for output. However the issue now is that there is to many decks in contention now that to many people expect "wailord decks", decks that people don't expect, so even if you played a deck that nobody expected to see that played a specified matchups other decks will benefit from the collective outcome.
 
With the new carbink having the same ability as suicune, fighting fury belt, and max potion reprinted, can wailord work again? Thanks!
 
I'd say not. Wailord was particularly good at what it did because it was an entirely 'new' strategy, meaning most people did not know how to play it nor were prepared for it. There is also Vespiquen running rampant in the format which would absolutely destory Wailord as it can 1-hit KO it.
 
Many people played it this past weekend at cities. It is most certainly a viable deck as it took spots in top 16.
 
Really now...

I can just see it again: Non-grass deck users will now have a dilemma on whether to tech in a Bunnelby as a counter for the tournaments. :p

I was thinking of making a Wailord deck to try online, but one with a twist in that not only would it stop KO's with lots of AZ, Max Potion, Cassius, etc., but that the deck could also catch opponents by surprise by attacking as well. It's an interesting idea to try out, and I have seen some Wailord decklists put in a Lucario-EX and a couple of fighting energy just to get rid of Bunnelby.
 
The thing that I've heard from people who know the designers of the Wailord-EX deck is that you don't want to add any form of attackers/Energy as it messes up your deck's consistency. However, that isn't to say it is impossible.
 
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