News Japan's SM3 Sets for the 20th Movie Feature Ho-Oh and Necrozma!

Hunga said:
I see the problem with Espeon EX waisting an attack and the opponent just “reevolving“ the following turn.
And the set up for the damage is easily removed, by clever opponents.
Porygon Z can, in some rare accounts, deevolve twice in a turn.
I kinda see a big selling point in countering machoke, so you can land multiple hits in the same turn. ;)
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Just answer me one question...
What deck are you running with PorygonZ, that is consistent enough to give up space for multiple Stage2 evo chains... and also requires the de-evolution mechanic?

in Expanded:
Espeon-EX + Archeops is far superior

in Standard:
I don't see anything being consistent enough to run this, except maybe SylveonGX.
Sylveon-GX can already 2HKO anything, and has superior disruption with PleaGX.

Ninetales could attempt to run it with Alolan-Vulpix's attack to set-up...
But that's a deck that would benefit more from spreading a lot of damage, and then devolving once with Espeon-EX.

I touched on the same strengths of the card as you did...
But why can't you see the weaknesses?
 
I don't think expanded. ;)
Agree on that.

It think we are still looking for a place where it will fit.
Time will tell and the post-rotation meta.

I do see the problem of a stage 2, but still see it as a solid tech / superior to Espeon EX.
 
So up against a GX deck where all of the basics have 60- HP, What if you ran this with a Vikikikikikikikikikikikivolt GX because his attack does 60 to each of opponents benched pokemans. Then you devolve them and they all die. 5 prize cards. The End
 
I think another point to be noted, as far as being able to devolve your opponents Pokemon within a turn and still act, is when we consider evolved Pokemon with static Abilities that harm our potential to interact with the opponent.

For instance, you can evolve a Porygon2 and bounce Vileplume to the opponent's hand, regaining the ability to use items. Or Trevenant XY for the same effect.

Within the scope of the Sun and Moon block, where I am convinced this and other cards are being designed and balanced around, it would allow you to devolve Power of Alchemy Alolan Muk, so that you could use the ability of a Basic Pokemon. Maybe bounce Alolan Dugtrio or Toxapex so that you can retreat safely.

Any ability that reduces damage taken can be undermined as well, like Safeguard Alolan Ninetales, Armor Golisopod, Daunting Pose Machoke, but in many ways those are situations where devolving itself will guarantee the KO (Machoke the more likely to be benched)

Then there is of course the fact that, as we move forward into a world with potentially no Item lock and more emphasis on Stage 2 Pokemon, Rare Candy will be a more important card, which means Porygon-Z can punish heavily by devolving a Solgaleo GX into Cosmog, not Cosmoem. Not only does that bring it much closer to KO range, but it also makes it all the harder to reestablish.

All of this said, do I think Porygon-Z will have instant effect into the game? Probably not at all, the way decks are built would have to drastically change for it to be effective in PRC-BRS, but I do think that it serves an interesting function as years go by. I could see it becoming something interesting to watch out for in the coming two years.

And last bit, we really need to see the whole evolution line to really value this card. If Porygon or Porygon2 have any strong use cases, it would push the value of Porygon-Z by a lot. Only 2 of 8 (9 if we count Dark Porygon2) Porygon2 have been printed without a Pokemon Power, Poke-Power, or Poke-Body, so chances are rather high that Porygon2 might have something cool to it. There isn't a particularly good pattern, except that most have been bench sitters with repeatable abilities (Change and energy's type, draw until 3/6, return a tool to hand, use a Supporter effect)

So let's hold out for a really strong Porygon2!
 
While it's true that setting up damage with necrozma/whatever on a prior turn to then devolve has counters and is getting more with Acerola/Scoop Up reprint, I don't see the evolution donk strategy as reliable enough to actually play as a main strategy so long as there are lots of really good basics around. It's hard to justify devoting 6 or more cards to something you won't use more often than not. It will win you games against GX evolution decks but you end up with a lot of dead draws against basic only decks that will likely remain strong long after rotation including Tapu Koko, Kiawe abuse, Turbo Lapras, Quad Lapras, whatever Darkrai deck we end up with, ect.

It more or less comes down to getting a Porygon2 good enough that the Porygon/2 aren't dead draws in those matchups.
 
I like Necrozma GX a lot. I'm not sure how useful its Ability will be, but for now Necrozma can wall Tauros GX, Drampa GX and M Rayquaza EX with it. The Prism Burst attack is similar to FAC Genesect EX's Rapid Blaster, I like that you can choose how many [P] Energies to discard; it can reach pretty nice numbers thanks to Choice Band and/or Kukui - or more [P] Energies, of course. Necrozma's GX attack is actually not bad, it can be pretty annoying to deal with for the opponent when he/she has filled the bench with EX/GX Pokémon.
I would obviously pair Necrozma GX with Metagross GX; sure, playing a Stage 2 support Pokémon makes your deck clunky, but Necrozma GX is a Basic Pokémon at least (I heard people talking about pairing Metagross GX with Solgaleo GX, the clunkiness would be real there).

The only thing I find interesting about Ho-Oh GX is its GX attack. I'm sure some Volcanion players will start to include Ho-Oh GX in their decks as a secondary attacker/tech Pokémon.
 
gracebond said:
I think another point to be noted, as far as being able to devolve your opponents Pokemon within a turn and still act, is when we consider evolved Pokemon with static Abilities that harm our potential to interact with the opponent.

For instance, you can evolve a Porygon2 and bounce Vileplume to the opponent's hand, regaining the ability to use items. Or Trevenant XY for the same effect.

Within the scope of the Sun and Moon block, where I am convinced this and other cards are being designed and balanced around, it would allow you to devolve Power of Alchemy Alolan Muk, so that you could use the ability of a Basic Pokemon. Maybe bounce Alolan Dugtrio or Toxapex so that you can retreat safely.

Any ability that reduces damage taken can be undermined as well, like Safeguard Alolan Ninetales, Armor Golisopod, Daunting Pose Machoke, but in many ways those are situations where devolving itself will guarantee the KO (Machoke the more likely to be benched)

Then there is of course the fact that, as we move forward into a world with potentially no Item lock and more emphasis on Stage 2 Pokemon, Rare Candy will be a more important card, which means Porygon-Z can punish heavily by devolving a Solgaleo GX into Cosmog, not Cosmoem. Not only does that bring it much closer to KO range, but it also makes it all the harder to reestablish.

All of this said, do I think Porygon-Z will have instant effect into the game? Probably not at all, the way decks are built would have to drastically change for it to be effective in PRC-BRS, but I do think that it serves an interesting function as years go by. I could see it becoming something interesting to watch out for in the coming two years.

And last bit, we really need to see the whole evolution line to really value this card. If Porygon or Porygon2 have any strong use cases, it would push the value of Porygon-Z by a lot. Only 2 of 8 (9 if we count Dark Porygon2) Porygon2 have been printed without a Pokemon Power, Poke-Power, or Poke-Body, so chances are rather high that Porygon2 might have something cool to it. There isn't a particularly good pattern, except that most have been bench sitters with repeatable abilities (Change and energy's type, draw until 3/6, return a tool to hand, use a Supporter effect)

So let's hold out for a really strong Porygon2!
Click to expand...

You make a lot of really valid points, though I would like to note that things like Wobbuffet or Garbodor can also negate those abilities, and are much easier to set-up/have a deck that they can easily fit in.

However, as you stated, this is just one use of the ability.
The versatility of the effect may be enough to have it see play... but the reverse is also true.
Since it is a Stage2, it will be occupying a minimum of 3 deck spaces (Porygon | Porygon2/RareCandy | PorygonZ), while that might not be so bad, it's effect will not be usable in certain match-ups:

Volcanion, Darkrai/Yvetal, and Lapras, just to name a few~
Also, shuffling the Evos back into the deck, will not matter versus the Eeveelutions; as they can attach an energy to find the card again.

So, I think it really does come down to Porygon2; if that card is usable in instances when PorygonZ is not.
Because... Volcanion is looking to be a powerhouse next rotation, and you can't really afford to run an evo chain that has no impact versus it.
 
That Lucario with Devo Spray will be the most annoying and fun thing ever when it comes out. I'm trying to think of a partner for it but they're isn't anything obvious I can think of. Also, if you put a Strong Energy on it it two-shots anything in the meta (albeit for a steep Energy cost) which is decent. I think I'll have to try this when it comes out. ;)
 
GekkisaiDaiNi said:
That Lucario with Devo Spray will be the most annoying and fun thing ever when it comes out. I'm trying to think of a partner for it but they're isn't anything obvious I can think of. Also, if you put a Strong Energy on it it two-shots anything in the meta (albeit for a steep Energy cost) which is decent. I think I'll have to try this when it comes out. ;)
Click to expand...

The problem with that strategy, is that you can't evolve the first turn a Pokemon is in play; which I'm sure you know.
Riolu counts as a new Pokemon, so you will not be able to evolve it the turn you Devo Spray it.
Also, most of the time, when you devolve it... it will either die from the damage it has on it, or die from your opponent's next attack.

The most realistic method would be to use a Super Scoop-Up, or Acerola.
But, then you'd have to set-up a 3 energy attack again.

Basically... the card is very lackluster; but has a bit of a "wow" factor due to it's ability.
It's a "cool" card, but... that's about it.

If I was going for a cheesy "live versus anything" strat, I'd try Toxicroak STS + Toxapex SUM~
 
Ecourts said:
The problem with that strategy, is that you can't evolve the first turn a Pokemon is in play; which I'm sure you know.
Riolu counts as a new Pokemon, so you will not be able to evolve it the turn you Devo Spray it.
Also, most of the time, when you devolve it... it will either die from the damage it has on it, or die from your opponent's next attack.

The most realistic method would be to use a Super Scoop-Up, or Acerola.
But, then you'd have to set-up a 3 energy attack again.

Basically... the card is very lackluster; but has a bit of a "wow" factor due to it's ability.
It's a "cool" card, but... that's about it.

If I was going for a cheesy "live versus anything" strat, I'd try Toxicroak STS + Toxapex SUM~
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, I forgot you can't play it back down that turn, that stinks. Oh well :(
 
Based on the Sides, we're getting:

Charmeleon, Ribombee, Crabominable, Croagunk or Regular Raichu, Kirlia, and Morelull.
 
Necrozma-GX's Black Ray GX (mass dmg) attack followed by Espeon-Ex's Miraculous shrine (mass de-evolution) attack are going to be crowd killers and the death of all evos with prior evolutions under 100hp. Say goodnight Eeveelutions and most other GX evolutions!!!
 
Are you sure you want to bet a million dollars?

That could buy you like, half a SM master set!
 
why are people saying porygon is useless? youre not attacking with it. youre using it as a one-turn 120 dmg boost against a ton of GX pokemon to let you knock em out in one go. thats an absurd amount of damage and its a totally splashable tech. shuffling all the cards away with N or whatever is fine too, but the big one is going to be the enormous drop in HP for GX pokemon. hell, you could easily ko two in a single turn if one in the active and one of the bench each have like 80 dmg on them.
 
Ho-oh's already pretty good with Kiawe being a thing. 210 damage with a choice band on turn 2 isn't shabby. Its GX move also makes Incineroar at least somewhat viable. But more likely it will be used for M-Charizard Y with protection cube or Charizard-GX if that card is good. Given their history with Charizard cards, chance are it won't be.
 
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