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Ecourts said:
First off, I'd like to say:
There's no need to mock/insult the person you're debating with.
I've learned over time, that it does nothing but muddy your point.

Secondly, you've yet to prove why this card should be played...
You preach of it's viability, yet close your statement with "Energy denial is bad."

No offense, but you come of sounding like a very inexperienced player.

We have nearly all our viable energy removal still in standard, and field blower to knock of things like EXP. Share.
It's a valid strategy, but one that uses a lot of deck slots.
I personally feel like this Plumeria simply doesn't make the cut.

Something to consider:
With VS Seeker rotating, you can't discard your supporters as freely.
Also, Puzzle may take it's place, which allows you to retrieve hammers.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right ecourts, that was a bit insulting on my part. I apologize. I'd like to point out though that the other person does come off very high and mighty with "No one in their right mind" stuff which really hit me the wrong way as if no one could think another way.

I am not saying Plumeria should be in every deck, but I think she has some interesting uses. As Water Pokemon Master mentions in introduction to the article that darkrai gx can combo with it, we also have Garbodor which forces a slower, less item filled game play so there is that too.

Also, you made your point about why I've yet to prove card's worth so why make the additional comment about me sounding like an inexperienced player? That actually was offensive, it was an unnecessary comment. Just because you say no offense before you say an offensive comment doesn't take away the offense
 
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I just thing that this card can only by used on very spesific decks and just one, very max two copies. I mean to used when needed by Vs seeker? the problem is no new copy of Vs seeker or Bs seeker until now. I am fine with this effect but is no playable afrer Vs seeker is rotated. (Ok i mean from standar deck now).
In decks like Volcanion, Dark cry, waters, and so on is usefull but on spesific times and only if you can afford with cards looks like Octillery.
 
Scourge188 said:
You are absolutely right ecourts, that was a bit insulting on my part. I apologize. I'd like to point out though that the other person does come off very high and mighty with "No one in their right mind" stuff which really hit me the wrong way as if no one could think another way.

I am not saying Plumeria should be in every deck, but I think she has some interesting uses. As Water Pokemon Master mentions in introduction to the article that darkrai gx can combo with it, we also have Garbodor which forces a slower, less item filled game play.
Click to expand...

I will agree with you on that, though I feel the bluntness of @thflame 's statement was simply meant to reinforce his opinion.
His thoughts on Plumeria have been stated multiple times, so a harshly worded statement... sort of... cements his thoughts.
I don't believe it was intended to offend people, but as more of... a blanket statement, to anyone else who was thinking of running Plumeria.

While I haven't necessarily written the card off, I also haven't found a competitive decklist in which I'd want to have it.
Because removing 1 energy throughout the entire game is extremely negligible; especially at the cost of 3 cards.
Energy denial is a commitment, an "archetype," as you stated.

Any deck that wants to run denial, will be running:
Playset of Flare Grunts
Playset of Crushing Hammers
And around... 2 Skull Grunts + 1-2 Enhanced Hammers.
That's already 10-11 cards; a decent chunk of the deck, committed to nothing buy energy removal.
This works, because you consistently remove energy, forcing your opponent to constantly draw an out.

With these cards, you can:
Remove from active, remove from bench, and remove from hand.
There is no spot left untouched, and as such, Plumeria doesn't add anything new/needed to this strategy.
Coupled with the fact that you need a minimum of 3 cards in hand to play it... it often becomes a dead card.

Playing this card could give you a dead hand, while taking away your draw supporter for the turn.
Meanwhile, your opponent can use a Max Elixir, or simply attach another energy... and then play their draw supporter.
They have effectively gained card advantage over you, because you chose to play Plumeria.

It's not a terrible card, but as competitive players, we try to only put the most optimal cards in a deck... and I don't see Plumeria earning a slot.
I hope this makes sense.
 
Ecourts said:
I will agree with you on that, though I feel the bluntness of @thflame 's statement was simply meant to reinforce his opinion.
His thoughts on Plumeria have been stated multiple times, so a harshly worded statement... sort of... cements his thoughts.
I don't believe it was intended to offend people, but as more of... a blanket statement, to anyone else who was thinking of running Plumeria.

While I haven't necessarily written the card off, I also haven't found a competitive decklist in which I'd want to have it.
Because removing 1 energy throughout the entire game is extremely negligible; especially at the cost of 3 cards.
Energy denial is a commitment, an "archetype," as you stated.

Any deck that wants to run denial, will be running:
Playset of Flare Grunts
Playset of Crushing Hammers
And around... 2 Skull Grunts + 1-2 Enhanced Hammers.
That's already 10-11 cards; a decent chunk of the deck, committed to nothing buy energy removal.
This works, because you consistently remove energy, forcing your opponent to constantly draw an out.

With these cards, you can:
Remove from active, remove from bench, and remove from hand.
There is no spot left untouched, and as such, Plumeria doesn't add anything new/needed to this strategy.
Coupled with the fact that you need a minimum of 3 cards in hand to play it... it often becomes a dead card.

Playing this card could give you a dead hand, while taking away your draw supporter for the turn.
Meanwhile, your opponent can use a Max Elixir, or simply attach another energy... and then play their draw supporter.
They have effectively gained card advantage over you, because you chose to play Plumeria.

It's not a terrible card, but as competitive players, we try to only put the most optimal cards in a deck... and I don't see Plumeria earning a slot.
I hope this makes sense.
Click to expand...

I get it ecourts, I honestly wouldn't play it unless I was going to revolve around it. I mean also think Crushing hammers are terrible cards as well. Maybe I like to play devil's advocate a bit too much, I like people to see all the possible perspectives
 
To extend an olive branch, I'll admit I was a bit harsh. I'll also admit that I didn't think about Oranguru as a recovery the turn after a Delinquent (I should have). I'll also agree that energy denial is currently not very favorable due to Garbodor. Partly because Crushing Hammer, an item with a 50% fail rate that feeds Garbodor, is the best choice we have. More importantly, however, Garbodor attacks for 1 energy. Energy denial is great when you can keep your opponent 2-3 energy away from attacking. Not so much if they just need one energy in hand.

At this point in time there is no reason I am aware of to play Plumeria in any deck. Eventually, Team Flare Grunt will rotate, and a spot for "supporter based energy denial" will open up. At that time, we can reassess Plumeria.
 
(Hey I'm new!)

120 for a basic are alright I guess but that attack's cost seem way too high! And 3 retereat itself? Meh!
 
Is looks like bad card, but is little fun if played correct. Cards looks like Team Aqua Mac, Team Aqua Secret Base, (i know is not legal now, but looks like with some effect cards i mean) may help this card, to be a little more playable
 
If only it was something like:
[P] Shadow Knot: 20x damage. This attack does 20 damage for each [C] in your opponent’s Active Pokemon’s Retreat Cost.
Then at the very least it could kill Garbodor.
 
  • Wobbufet - the attack is gosh darn expensive! If it is a DCE, it could be an anti to most decks. This time, this counters 120-160 HP, Garbage with weird arms. 2-3 Geodudes.
 
I'd pair this with Alolan Dugtrio and Lunala-GX. Dugtrio adds more * to the opponent's Retreat Cost, Lunala can move Psychic Energy around, opening up to things like Max Potion etc. Only horrendous matchup I can think of is Garbodor, purely because of how Item-reliant this deck could be. But, it could be a lot of fun.
 
It should be 70x or 60x if you ask me, come on Pokémon, it's 3 energies. Why not a mediocre attack with a one or at max two energies cost?

wonderful_whismur said:
If only it was something like:
[P] Shadow Knot: 20x damage. This attack does 20 damage for each [C] in your opponent’s Active Pokemon’s Retreat Cost.
Then at the very least it could kill Garbodor.
Click to expand...

This sounds pretty fine, or maybe for 2 energies 30x, but 3 for 50x? No thanks
 
Is there a middle ground between being to costly to use and being too strong? I see tons of complaints about either end of the spectrum and I'm sitting here like- team skull graffiti in a card art. Cool.
 
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