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Dunsparce's biggest issue isn't the fact that it's a prize liability, it's just one prize. The biggest issue is that you can't attack t1 when moving first and you pick who moves first when you flip, before you see what start you have. Most decks will continue to want to go first to be a supporter ahead though the number of consistency/draw supporters we have is falling quite a bit.

Buzzwole is also kind of a big deal because if you don't get second move and have a dunsparce active t1 its bug bait
 
Lanstar said:
Dunsparce... I have never played during its era. But in the context of right now, and the SUM-on rotation it will be used in, my critique:

- 50 HP and 1[C] retreat is quite problematic. After you use its power, it becomes a bench sitter prone to snipe knock-outs. Mr. Mime will rotate, so bench protection will require an evolved card.
- While going second to use the attack is strong, I don't find many advantages it would give versus the player going first. Your opponent can still use Tapu Lele for Pokemon Fan Club and other supporters to develop before you do - and given that you used your first attack to develop your bench, it sets up your opponent to deal damage first.
- As of late, there just aren't many basic Pokemon SUM-on that can disrupt opponents with abilities when they become active. Wobbuffet is rotating, too... Well, I guess you could try Goomy, but then again, watch for Alolan Muk and Guzma be everywhere, given that Garbodor and Float Stone will rotate.

In other words, the card might have been strong in one metagame, but think about our future one: It may help budget builds, but it won't as effective as before.
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While experience with the past metagame where Dunsparce was a strong play is not required to properly evaluate its prospects, I think it helps. I also think such knowledge answers some of your concerns, Lanstar, but let me explain.

Dunsparce was always a disposable opener; this is anecdotal, but I even recall being frustrated when an opponent decided not to KO it. As such, its 50 HP is at best a minor concern while it is Active. It does mean you need to build your deck around going second, or else going first but expecting Dunsparce to be a sacrifice which never gets to attack. Is there a current attacker with a bonus Bench hit or spread that does 50 damage? Or at least a combo that does so in a single turn? Then 50 HP on the Bench is a serious concern. Being within 2HKO range of the bonus Bench hit afforded "Jet Punch" does not seem overly significant unless something specific to the deck makes it so (like sabotaging a seven Prize strategy, or ends up being a deciding factor in a given match). That damage could be going somewhere else most of the time, and much of the time it would probably matter more, like building to a "bonus" KO of a more important Bench-sitter or setting up your opponent's next attacker for a pseudo-OHKO.

The Retreat Cost of [C] should rarely matter unless I'm grossly underestimating current control/lock decks (a real possibility). If I'm not too terribly rusty on the specifics of the current metagame (what has transpired over the last four or so months), this is not the case. That means to "strand" a Dunsparce up front requires discarding the Energy it used to attack; if my opponent wants to expend a Crushing Hammer and a Guzma to strand Dunsparce, that might be a deal in my favor! XD Forcing Dunsparce active for an easy OHKO is similar to it being a bonus Bench KO; it could be really bad, but probably isn't too big of a deal given the resources going towards the KO and the fact you likely want it off of your Bench.

Most of the disruptive strategies you mention were not a thing back when Dunsparce was new. The exception was promoting something protected by "Safeguard", which will have a modern counterpart still available post-rotation. The most likely card to promote is a more mundane meatshield or pivot Pokémon, which also remain an option post-rotation.

With all of that out of the way, you are right to be skeptical. The current first turn rules coupled with the pacing of the game are a real challenge to Dunsparce. I do remain cautiously optimistic myself. Over on a website that shall not be named, we actually reviewed it about a month ago for our "Throwback Thursday" Card of the Day, simply to explain why modern openers in this vein have been so disappointing.
 
Nytttt said:
It’s not,EX Sandstorm doesn’t have x2 resistance
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You mean Weakness. And yes it does. All weaknesses back then were 2x (and yes, ones that don't have a multiplier listed STILL work that way.) Base Set Caterpie and Weedle are currently Standard-legal in the exact same circumstances due to the Evolutions ones.
 
Otaku said:
While experience with the past metagame where Dunsparce was a strong play is not required to properly evaluate its prospects, I think it helps. I also think such knowledge answers some of your concerns, Lanstar, but let me explain.

Dunsparce was always a disposable opener; this is anecdotal, but I even recall being frustrated when an opponent decided not to KO it. As such, its 50 HP is at best a minor concern while it is Active. It does mean you need to build your deck around going second, or else going first but expecting Dunsparce to be a sacrifice which never gets to attack. Is there a current attacker with a bonus Bench hit or spread that does 50 damage? Or at least a combo that does so in a single turn? Then 50 HP on the Bench is a serious concern. Being within 2HKO range of the bonus Bench hit afforded "Jet Punch" does not seem overly significant unless something specific to the deck makes it so (like sabotaging a seven Prize strategy, or ends up being a deciding factor in a given match). That damage could be going somewhere else most of the time, and much of the time it would probably matter more, like building to a "bonus" KO of a more important Bench-sitter or setting up your opponent's next attacker for a pseudo-OHKO.

The Retreat Cost of [C] should rarely matter unless I'm grossly underestimating current control/lock decks (a real possibility). If I'm not too terribly rusty on the specifics of the current metagame (what has transpired over the last four or so months), this is not the case. That means to "strand" a Dunsparce up front requires discarding the Energy it used to attack; if my opponent wants to expend a Crushing Hammer and a Guzma to strand Dunsparce, that might be a deal in my favor! XD Forcing Dunsparce active for an easy OHKO is similar to it being a bonus Bench KO; it could be really bad, but probably isn't too big of a deal given the resources going towards the KO and the fact you likely want it off of your Bench.

Most of the disruptive strategies you mention were not a thing back when Dunsparce was new. The exception was promoting something protected by "Safeguard", which will have a modern counterpart still available post-rotation. The most likely card to promote is a more mundane meatshield or pivot Pokémon, which also remain an option post-rotation.

With all of that out of the way, you are right to be skeptical. The current first turn rules coupled with the pacing of the game are a real challenge to Dunsparce. I do remain cautiously optimistic myself. Over on a website that shall not be named, we actually reviewed it about a month ago for our "Throwback Thursday" Card of the Day, simply to explain why modern openers in this vein have been so disappointing.
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For the 50 HP argument, the problem is how heavily spread-based many SUM-on cards have been. We have normal Tapu Koko, Alolan-Ninetales-GX, Garchomp, Decidueye-GX, Frogs, Buzzwole-GX, Espeon-GX, Noivern-GX, etc., that can make it an easy prize waiting to be gotten - even if it isn't right away. Although I must admit, it probably won't be the biggest target.

The main issue I have, though, is it can't do much after it uses its main attack. I mean, it can try to stall with paralysis, but it doesn't put much pressure against the opponent. At least with other leads, like Kangaskhan and Skarmory from older formats, they could do a decent amount of damage with their second attack, and had enough HP to not become major targets.

I wish this Dunsparce could have had 0-retreat, as it would then at least function as a pivot for other Pokemon to become active - and become less a pain to start with if you went first.
 
Lanstar said:
For the 50 HP argument, the problem is how heavily spread-based many SUM-on cards have been. We have normal Tapu Koko, Alolan-Ninetales-GX, Garchomp, Decidueye-GX, Frogs, Buzzwole-GX, Espeon-GX, Noivern-GX, etc., that can make it an easy prize waiting to be gotten - even if it isn't right away. Although I must admit, it probably won't be the biggest target.
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Yes, spread damage (and bonus hits) have played a significant role in recent times, and right now Buzzwole-GX is highly competitive, right? Let us take a step back for a moment; more than once I've had to explain to folks that a damage boost only matters if triggers an effect, sets up for a combo, or reduces the number of turns it takes to score a KO. I brought that up because some folks have a hard time understanding why certain damage buffs are meaningless. This relates to the above situation in that we have to consider exactly what is happening in the above situations, and which of those decks are currently competitive.

The short version is that in all cases, your opponent is giving something at least somewhat valuable up to score an effective OHKO against Dunsparce or it takes a lot of incidental damage. If you're using Giant Water Shuriken to OHKO a Dunsparce on your Bench, it had better be for game (or an obvious lead up to it). The same if you're running Decidueye-GX and you use burn three uses of Arrow Shot. If your opponent attacks three times in a row with Tapu Koko, that has to be a crazy combo deck or something has seriously gone wrong on your end. That does not mean it will never matter in such matchups, but how often will your opponent take a key Prize by not KOing Dunsparce while it is Active (which you probably want) then later taking it out while it is on the Bench?

Lanstar said:
The main issue I have, though, is it can't do much after it uses its main attack. I mean, it can try to stall with paralysis, but it doesn't put much pressure against the opponent. At least with other leads, like Kangaskhan and Skarmory from older formats, they could do a decent amount of damage with their second attack, and had enough HP to not become major targets.
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Dunsparce is not supposed to "do much" after it uses its main attack. I know some cards are great because they've got a solid fallback option after doing their main thing, but Tapu Lele-GX is great because of its Ability first, its solid stats second, and decent non-GX attack as a distant third. How do I know? Because Jirachi-EX was awesome with just the Ability; sure Jirachi-EX is Level Ball compliant, but that doesn't offset the other two. ;) What Kangaskhan and Skarmory are you talking about?

Lanstar said:
I wish this Dunsparce could have had 0-retreat, as it would then at least function as a pivot for other Pokemon to become active - and become less a pain to start with if you went first.
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I'd rather the first turn rules didn't prohibit attacking but doing damage. ;) In other words, yes Dunsparce would be better if it had a free Retreat Cost, but it doesn't. I forget, are you not allowed to choose to go second? Yeah, it still matters as your opponent may win the coin toss and elect to go second, but I'm thinking this is a really, really minor thing.

I know it seems like I'm nitpicking... I am! The thing is I'm not alone. You're giving really minor problems with the card. The main reason should be adequate; if you don't think an Energy attachment and giving up a Prize is worth searching out and Benching three Basics, that's good enough reason to think Dunsparce won't be worth it! :)
 
Yeeeeeees this was like my favorite card back win the day. Super stoked that I can play with it again!
 
Otaku said:
If Buzzwole-GX is going second, then Dunsparce is going first, which means it wasn't able to attack.
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This is part of the reason I believe Dunsparce will not be as influencial as it used to be. Dunsparce needs to go second to be effective but this already slows down some of the decks that would benefit the most from it. Personally I believe that Pokémon Fan Club is a much better replacement of Brigette than Dunsparse in evolution decks or decks that need to be fast.
 
Otaku said:
Dunsparce was always a disposable opener; this is anecdotal, but I even recall being frustrated when an opponent decided not to KO it.
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Wanted to add something to that––the formats in which Dunsparce was played (we're talking mainly '04, but a few prominent decks in '05 too) didn't have too much in the way of gust effects. There was Pokémon Reversal, but barely anything played it because flips are annoying. So it was actually super common for both players to set up behind a Dunsparce, filling their Benches and then Sudden Flash-ing each other until one of the Dunsparces died and your opponent was forced to promote an actual threat––which then you'd get to deal the first relevant damage of the game on.

So Dunsparce held a niche that continued to exist until about 2012 and then fwr disappeared from the game––a Pokémon that you wanted to start with, attack with to set up for the first few turns, and then was basically useless. And almost everything played four of them. Kinda cool that's being brought back. But what also needs to be considered is that in this format, we do have reliable gust effects, so Dunsparce doesn't double as your earlygame wall like it did in '04.

Lanstar said:
While going second to use the attack is strong, I don't find many advantages it would give versus the player going first. Your opponent can still use Tapu Lele for Pokemon Fan Club and other supporters to develop before you do - and given that you used your first attack to develop your bench, it sets up your opponent to deal damage first.
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I kinda mentioned this above, but basically, damage done to Dunsparce SS never really counted as damage, if that makes any sense. Because in order to damage the Dunsparce, you have to promote something that constitutes a threat to your opponent and then waste its attack on the Dunsparce, while your opponent is able on their next turn to deal damage to an actual threat.

Actually, thinking about it, this'd probably be less of a thing now, since a) stuff that would constitute a threat is easier to stream these days and b) gust effects.

Otaku said:
Dunsparce is not supposed to "do much" after it uses its main attack.
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Disagree on that point. It's supposed to sit there and force your opponent to expend time and resources to kill it. It's also significantly more of a hindrance to your opponent than other setup Pokémon like it because you've got the chance to paralyze, forcing them to expend even more time or resources to get out of paralysis.
 
arulz said:
Shoot, missed that part.

Can still be used with evolving GX before they evolve I suppose...
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You can. but you need to be fast because Pre-evos are very frail. Because they can easily hit by std. like Zoroark. I just really wish Broken Space got reprinted
 
Mr. Rhyperior said:
You can. but you need to be fast because Pre-evos are very frail. Because they can easily hit by std. like Zoroark. I just really wish Broken Space got reprinted
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Broken Time-Space doesn't fix the problem, though, it just hides it while creating other problems; all the Evolutions not pre-nerfed so that Broken Time-Spaec doesn't break them... tend to get broken. XD

It is a very honestly named card. XP

Addendum: Oh, and @Jabberwock Well said. I left some of that out on purpose because I didn't think it would apply to modern usage, but I'm thinking that was a mistake now because - and I think I even did saythis earlier - knowing how a card worked in the past is just so useful for predicting its usage in the present. So... my bad.
 
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