Discussion Just Me, or Did Gen 5 and 6 TCG Sets Feel... Incomplete?

[Blob55]

Gen 5 and 6 missed some Pokémon forms, like Deerling Winter, Sawbuck Winter and Autum and even some Megas! I know Gen 5 didn't last long for TCG, but Gen 6 should have at least included the Megas, since it: 1. ran longer and 2. had less new Pokémon.

Other forms missing are:
Arceus Fairy and Dragon
Individual Cosplay Pikachu cards
Genesect Drives
Majority of Vivillon Patterns

I know a lot of those forms are minor, but back in Gen 2 and 3 they'd include all Unown forms, all Burmy and Wormadam forms and all of Castforms forms.

At least Gen 7 feels more inclusive and included all Alola forms, Ash Cap Pikachu as individual cards and the battleable Zygarde forms. Though they're still missing Minior and Sylvally forms.

 

[Pikachu6319]

Add to Gen five the fact we never got a fighting Chesnaught or a Pyschic Delphox to that list when in gen 4 we got alternate types for Torterra, Infernape and Empoleon. As I recall they had some 'drives' covered in the form of Genesect EX and trainer cards. I'm not surprised however that they skipped cosplay card though, that kind of stuff always gets skipped. And actually it's worth noting in Gen 2 they did not cover all Unown's, at least in English. I believe Gen 2 lacked Unown J and R until Gen 3. The Asp Cap Pikachu was a special thing for Pokémon I Choose You I think.

You're also off a bout Sylvally, they did trainer cards for the GX to change it's type. Not the same as Arceus I know but it is there. And you're wrong about Minior, we have both forms.

 

[Latte1504]

Gen 5 and 6 missed some Pokémon forms, like Deerling Winter, Sawbuck Winter and Autum and even some Megas! I know Gen 5 didn't last long for TCG, but Gen 6 should have at least included the Megas, since it: 1. ran longer and 2. had less new Pokémon.

Other forms missing are:
Arceus Fairy and Dragon
Individual Cosplay Pikachu cards
Genesect Drives
Majority of Vivillon Patterns

I know a lot of those forms are minor, but back in Gen 2 and 3 they'd include all Unown forms, all Burmy and Wormadam forms and all of Castforms forms.

At least Gen 7 feels more inclusive and included all Alola forms, Ash Cap Pikachu as individual cards and the battleable Zygarde forms. Though they're still missing Minior and Sylvally forms.

Ok here's some of my opinions:
I kind of forgot sawbuck was even a pokemon until you commented this. I guess alternate forms would have been cool, but Pokemon Card Labs has never prioritized this at all, nor should they imo. How many people noticed that not all the Sawsbuck forms were printed?
Gen 5 and 6 lasted almost equally as long in the TCG. Gen 6 had 1 more main set.
They could never realistically include all the megas. There were about 50 introduced, and they were only ever printed as Ultra Rares. 50*2 (for regulars EXs)=100 ultra rares. Divide this among twelve sets and that is 8 and 1/3 UR pokemon per set. This would take up almost all of the UR slots for the entire block!
Fairy and Dragon types were introduced to the TCG after the release of the types Arceuses from Platinum:Arceus. This is not gonna happen most likely, nor was it ever planned to.
I can give you Cosplay Pikachu. They could have easily done a box for it.
Genesect Drives are kind-of in the TCG in the forms of the Ace-Specs G-Scope and G-Booster. Genesect-EX from fates collides also makes a note of the drives in its ability Drive Change.
I don't believe it is really feasible, noris it fair to collectors to release all of the Vivillon patterns. If they drop them, that makes the specific Vivillon forms kind-of like Ultra Rares because there would be such a low chance for each form.

Add to Gen five the fact we never got a fighting Chesnaught or a Pyschic Delphox to that list when in gen 4 we got alternate types for Torterra, Infernape and Empoleon.

This probably will sound rude; however, I am just trying to correct an incorrect fact as I see it. Chesnaught and Delphox are both from Gen 6. Also, Gen 4 ran for a full 16 sets before moving on to Gen 5.

 

[Blob55]

Add to Gen five the fact we never got a fighting Chesnaught or a Pyschic Delphox to that list when in gen 4 we got alternate types for Torterra, Infernape and Empoleon. As I recall they had some 'drives' covered in the form of Genesect EX and trainer cards. I'm not surprised however that they skipped cosplay card though, that kind of stuff always gets skipped. And actually it's worth noting in Gen 2 they did not cover all Unown's, at least in English. I believe Gen 2 lacked Unown J and R until Gen 3. The Asp Cap Pikachu was a special thing for Pokémon I Choose You I think.

You're also off a bout Sylvally, they did trainer cards for the GX to change it's type. Not the same as Arceus I know but it is there. And you're wrong about Minior, we have both forms.

1. Chesnaught and Delphox are from Gen 6
2. Didn't know that some Drives were added in GX
3. Not really, because a lot of other costumed Pikachu get added, like Rayquaza costumes and villain bosses costumes
4. In English, we did get Unown J as a Promo card with the 3rd Movie VHS
5. Thanks for the SIlvally information
6. I meant the Minior coloured cores

 

[RiverShock]

Deerling/Sawsbuck and the megas are the only major omissions IMO. Forms are usually only covered for very distinctive ones (such as Rotom, Wormadam or Unown) or ones with literally only 2 (like Basculin or Gastrodon). I wouldn't expect things like Arceus or Cosplay Pikachu to be part of a main set in that way. Genesect could go either way, but that's more down to whether they think it's valuable gameplay-wise like Silvally's Memories are, rather than whether for completeness. It's not important flavour-wise.

Vivillon I'd only expect to get more forms represented by having multiple forms in one art. We're never going to get different forms by region again. XY was very clearly a once-off. And there's little value to doing that for anything other than collectors anyway, since you can't use foreign cards. (If you could, I could see them doing this.) We might get a Pokeball Pattern Vivillon, but that's the only unique form that could get a card to itself at this point IMO. (Maybe Elegant just because Japan, but eh.)

Megas I feel will happen eventually. The fact they've continued to mention Pokemon-EX in new cards makes it pretty easy, and it's an easy thing to theme a promotional product or mini-set around.

 

[Blob55]

Deerling/Sawsbuck and the megas are the only major omissions IMO. Forms are usually only covered for very distinctive ones (such as Rotom, Wormadam or Unown) or ones with literally only 2 (like Basculin or Gastrodon). I wouldn't expect things like Arceus or Cosplay Pikachu to be part of a main set in that way. Genesect could go either way, but that's more down to whether they think it's valuable gameplay-wise like Silvally's Memories are, rather than whether for completeness. It's not important flavour-wise.

Vivillon I'd only expect to get more forms represented by having multiple forms in one art. We're never going to get different forms by region again. XY was very clearly a once-off. And there's little value to doing that for anything other than collectors anyway, since you can't use foreign cards. (If you could, I could see them doing this.) We might get a Pokeball Pattern Vivillon, but that's the only unique form that could get a card to itself at this point IMO. (Maybe Elegant just because Japan, but eh.)

Megas I feel will happen eventually. The fact they've continued to mention Pokemon-EX in new cards makes it pretty easy, and it's an easy thing to theme a promotional product or mini-set around.

What I find odd about Deerling a Sawbuck, is there's an Autumn Deerling, but no Autumn Sawbuck. They also forgot to include Winter of either. Deerling also got a card in XY set, Fates Collide, but never got an evolution.

Vivillon's fancy pattern was also event exclusive. Plus Savanna, Sun, Ocean and Monsoon are the prettiest forms IMO and of those, the only one which made it to card was Savanna.

I think Megas would only come back if new ones were made or if there's XY remakes. We did have a Kalos TCG set, but nothing in it had Megas.

 

[Pikachu6319]

Ok here's some of my opinions:
I kind of forgot sawbuck was even a pokemon until you commented this. I guess alternate forms would have been cool, but Pokemon Card Labs has never prioritized this at all, nor should they imo. How many people noticed that not all the Sawsbuck forms were printed?
Gen 5 and 6 lasted almost equally as long in the TCG. Gen 6 had 1 more main set.
They could never realistically include all the megas. There were about 50 introduced, and they were only ever printed as Ultra Rares. 50*2 (for regulars EXs)=100 ultra rares. Divide this among twelve sets and that is 8 and 1/3 UR pokemon per set. This would take up almost all of the UR slots for the entire block!
Fairy and Dragon types were introduced to the TCG after the release of the types Arceuses from Platinum:Arceus. This is not gonna happen most likely, nor was it ever planned to.
I can give you Cosplay Pikachu. They could have easily done a box for it.
Genesect Drives are kind-of in the TCG in the forms of the Ace-Specs G-Scope and G-Booster. Genesect-EX from fates collides also makes a note of the drives in its ability Drive Change.
I don't believe it is really feasible, noris it fair to collectors to release all of the Vivillon patterns. If they drop them, that makes the specific Vivillon forms kind-of like Ultra Rares because there would be such a low chance for each form.


This probably will sound rude; however, I am just trying to correct an incorrect fact as I see it. Chesnaught and Delphox are both from Gen 6. Also, Gen 4 ran for a full 16 sets before moving on to Gen 5.

At least two people noticed the Sawsbuck thing, so there is that. Who knows how many others noticed it. Just because you forgot Deerling/Sawsbuck doesn't mean everyone else did.
I agree it would have been almost impossible to include all the megas. But honestly, I would preferred the Best of BW or whatever that last set was to have the remaining megas over alternate full arts like N and Shaymin EX myself.
Meh, we don't know what they planned as far Arceus. But yeah it doesn't seem like that will happen which is too bad in my opinion.
A cosplay Pikachu box would have been nice, but we all know we very rarely get those kind of products so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone it never happened.

You're right that those were gen six Pokémon but that is very irrelevant to the other point. We have had four sets of Chesnaught, Greninja and Delphox to date (not counting the dark Greninja, the EX's and the BREAKS) and there is absolutely no reason they couldn't have made those alternate types bar the fact they chose not to. The new Incineroar GX is proof of that one. And let's not forget it took twenty years but we got an alternate typing for Tentacool/Tentacruel after all.

 

[Pikachu6319]

1. Chesnaught and Delphox are from Gen 6
2. Didn't know that some Drives were added in GX
3. Not really, because a lot of other costumed Pikachu get added, like Rayquaza costumes and villain bosses costumes
4. In English, we did get Unown J as a Promo card with the 3rd Movie VHS
5. Thanks for the SIlvally information
6. I meant the Minior coloured cores

1. Yeah got that one wrong. Still doesn't invalidate the point though.
2. It was only in that one set though, there wasn't much done with it. And it only effected Genesect EX.
3. But again none of those came to the US. I maintain Ash hat Pikachu was a special case for outside of Japan.
4. Still we didn't get R until Unseen Forces.
5. Np, I remember because I was looking into it for something special I do.
6. Ah right, forgot about those. Something tells me we won't see most of those sadly.

 

[Blob55]

1. Yeah got that one wrong. Still doesn't invalidate the point though.
2. It was only in that one set though, there wasn't much done with it. And it only effected Genesect EX.
3. But again none of those came to the US. I maintain Ash hat Pikachu was a special case for outside of Japan.
4. Still we didn't get R until Unseen Forces.
5. Np, I remember because I was looking into it for something special I do.
6. Ah right, forgot about those. Something tells me we won't see most of those sadly.

1. Because Gen 6 wasn't properly finished IMO. Unlike forms though, starters are more likely to get their second typing sometime later. After all, Charizard didn't get Colourless until Skyridge, the last Gen 2 set
3. I suppose, but I'd liked to of seen a Pikachu with Icicle Crash
4. Yeah, but at least the card was made
6. Which sucks, because I like the pink one the least

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I feel Pokemon in general feels incomplete. Generations come and go so fast that you have no real time to get involved in them. Generations one and two felt the most complete to me and things beyond that feel about 60% done and that number gets lower and lower each year. I think this is why they keep going back to Kanto and Johto and that's because those games/generations offer the most to the series.

If I had to ask, what was the most memorable thing out of Sun and Moon? I know people are talking about the TCG but I think this is a problem with how TPC/i does things. We got the reprint of Articuno ex as Articuno-GX but I can almost bet we wont get Zapdos-GX or Moltres-GX, two cards I really want.

 

[Blob55]

I feel Pokemon in general feels incomplete. Generations come and go so fast that you have no real time to get involved in them. Generations one and two felt the most complete to me and things beyond that feel about 60% done and that number gets lower and lower each year. I think this is why they keep going back to Kanto and Johto and that's because those games/generations offer the most to the series.

If I had to ask, what was the most memorable thing out of Sun and Moon? I know people are talking about the TCG but I think this is a problem with how TPC/i does things. We got the reprint of Articuno ex as Articuno-GX but I can almost bet we wont get Zapdos-GX or Moltres-GX, two cards I really want.

Really? Gen 3 and 4 included most Pokémon and all forms of Pokémon at the time. The only missing ones were Abra (Gen 3) and Kadabra (Gens 3 and 4). Saying the first two gens feel the most complete doesn't really make much sense, especially since Unown R wasn't released until Gen 3 outside of Japan.

Gen 6 felt the least complete, because of the missing Mega Evolutions and the rest could have been promos or put into the last set or something! Plus Mega Evolutions are still a thing in Gen 7, just they were too lazy to include the rest.

Gen 5 felt incomplete too, but that could have been because they didn't get much time to focus on Gen 5 Pokémon to add all forms. Not to mention Gen 5 is where they stopped caring about non-popular and non-Legendary Pokémon. Poor Pokémon like Sunflora and baby Pokémon stopped appearing then.

Also, defy, "60% done". Gen 5 still had more sets than Gen 1 or 2 and starting with Gen 6, Japan got smaller sets that focus on older cards and certain types. Those sets usually get combined with the main sets in English or increase the number of cards, to make them more worthwhile (such as Dragon Majesty).

Personally, I think they should focus on Pokémon in Regional dex's first, get all their forms ect... then focus on Regional Dex mon in a re-make or 3rd version (if there is one) of the Generation. After that focus on additional Pokémon not in the dex, like Legendaries in USUM and finally Pokémon not found in the region/regions. Not doing this is why we're missing Sawbuck forms and why Ivysaur wasn't in any cards in Gen 6, despite being in Kalos Central Dex.

 

[Pikachu6319]

1. Because Gen 6 wasn't properly finished IMO. Unlike forms though, starters are more likely to get their second typing sometime later. After all, Charizard didn't get Colourless until Skyridge, the last Gen 2 set
3. I suppose, but I'd liked to of seen a Pikachu with Icicle Crash
4. Yeah, but at least the card was made
6. Which sucks, because I like the pink one the least

I agree it seems like gen six wasn't properly finished, nor gen five for that matter. True but not always, still waiting for Emboar. Still waiting for Venusaur now that poison is psychic rather than grass. But it took us 20 years to get a poison type Tentacool/Tentacruel. And honestly I don't count the Charizard from Skyridge as a flying type as it's supposed to be a Crystal type Pokémon, not a flying type.
Hey I collect Pikachu cards, so personally I would have loved to see the cosplay ones, I just knew that it was very unlikely to happen.
True, at a later point. So nothing can truly be invalidated as not going to happen. It might take another three years but we could get a winter form Deerling/Sawsbuck.
I think personally I kind of forgot Minior had different core forms lol.

 

[Blob55]

I agree it seems like gen six wasn't properly finished, nor gen five for that matter. True but not always, still waiting for Emboar. Still waiting for Venusaur now that poison is psychic rather than grass. But it took us 20 years to get a poison type Tentacool/Tentacruel. And honestly I don't count the Charizard from Skyridge as a flying type as it's supposed to be a Crystal type Pokémon, not a flying type.
Hey I collect Pikachu cards, so personally I would have loved to see the cosplay ones, I just knew that it was very unlikely to happen.
True, at a later point. So nothing can truly be invalidated as not going to happen. It might take another three years but we could get a winter form Deerling/Sawsbuck.
I think personally I kind of forgot Minior had different core forms lol.

I hope Gen 7 is completed/more complete, well at least they've added all Alolan Forms... I really don't like how they ditched Mega evos after Gen 6 sets, despite them being in Gen 7.
Not completing Cosplay Pikachu, but adding Mario, Luigi and multiple poncho Pikachu makes no sense!
I really want Sawbuck in the Unova set. Also, I hope it's not Tag Bolt, because that implies it has to share with Gen 1 and we all know the ever-encompassing vacuum that is Gen 1.

 

[Pikachu6319]

I hope Gen 7 is completed/more complete, well at least they've added all Alolan Forms... I really don't like how they ditched Mega evos after Gen 6 sets, despite them being in Gen 7.
Not completing Cosplay Pikachu, but adding Mario, Luigi and multiple poncho Pikachu makes no sense!
I really want Sawbuck in the Unova set. Also, I hope it's not Tag Bolt, because that implies it has to share with Gen 1 and we all know the ever-encompassing vacuum that is Gen 1.

Yeah they have done that at least. I still won't be happy until Primarina and Decuideye get their alternate types though. At least Incineroar will, though there is a part of me that wishes it wasn't a GX but what can you do? No I agree, I wanted to have all the mega evos too for my pokemon carddex.
Yet more Pikachu's we sadly never got outside of Japan. Really a wasted opportunity I think.
If they do hopefully it'll be a Sawbuck from a season we don't have. Hopefully it won't be a Tag bolt one, but something tells me they wouldn't even put Sawsbuck on one of those.

 

[Blob55]

Yeah they have done that at least. I still won't be happy until Primarina and Decuideye get their alternate types though. At least Incineroar will, though there is a part of me that wishes it wasn't a GX but what can you do? No I agree, I wanted to have all the mega evos too for my pokemon carddex.
Yet more Pikachu's we sadly never got outside of Japan. Really a wasted opportunity I think.
If they do hopefully it'll be a Sawbuck from a season we don't have. Hopefully it won't be a Tag bolt one, but something tells me they wouldn't even put Sawsbuck on one of those.

The only real way they'd add Sawsbuck Autumn or Winter, is if a game includes those forms. Sucks that Alola didn't incorporate the season system into each of its islands.

 

[RiverShock]

The only real way they'd add Sawsbuck Autumn or Winter, is if a game includes those forms. Sucks that Alola didn't incorporate the season system into each of its islands.

That's untrue. They could just release a card of any form. The fact they're not obtainable in Sun/Moon without importing it doesn't really mean anything. It's not like Pokemon like Diancie or Unown are obtainable in a Gen 7 game either. I feel it's worth pointing out there are many Pokemon that were completely unobtainable in Gen 7 games that have had cards, multiple in some cases. Carnivine was last obtainable in X & Y, for example, and there are 2 Sun/Moon-era cards featuring it. They don't just ignore things because they're not actively obtainable.

It might be different for forms that straight don't exist in the games at all anymore, like Spikey-Eared Pichu or Cosplay Pikachu, but it's worth pointing out that different canons often work independently of each other. For example, Spiky-Eared Pichu appeared in a Gen 5 animated short despite not existing in the Gen 5 games at all.

 

[Blob55]

That's untrue. They could just release a card of any form. The fact they're not obtainable in Sun/Moon without importing it doesn't really mean anything. It's not like Pokemon like Diancie or Unown are obtainable in a Gen 7 game either. I feel it's worth pointing out there are many Pokemon that were completely unobtainable in Gen 7 games that have had cards, multiple in some cases. Carnivine was last obtainable in X & Y, for example, and there are 2 Sun/Moon-era cards featuring it. They don't just ignore things because they're not actively obtainable.

It might be different for forms that straight don't exist in the games at all anymore, like Spikey-Eared Pichu or Cosplay Pikachu, but it's worth pointing out that different canons often work independently of each other. For example, Spiky-Eared Pichu appeared in a Gen 5 animated short despite not existing in the Gen 5 games at all.

Thing is, how many Pokémon IN XY didn't get a card in Gen 6? I know Ivysaur didn't. Same applies for Gen 7 cards, how many Pokémon in USUM haven't got cards yet?

Also, forms introduced in Gen 5 that aren't related to Legendaries, don't get cards anymore and the same applies for Gen 6. You don't get more than like 2 Mega Evos in the whole of Gen 7 cards so far and they're Pokémon who already have Mega Evolution cards. I also doubt we'll see Ash Greninja's card anytime soon or alternate sized Pumpkaboo.

 

[RiverShock]

Thing is, how many Pokémon IN XY didn't get a card in Gen 6? I know Ivysaur didn't. Same applies for Gen 7 cards, how many Pokémon in USUM haven't got cards yet?

Also, forms introduced in Gen 5 that aren't related to Legendaries, don't get cards anymore and the same applies for Gen 6. You don't get more than like 2 Mega Evos in the whole of Gen 7 cards so far and they're Pokémon who already have Mega Evolution cards. I also doubt we'll see Ash Greninja's card anytime soon or alternate sized Pumpkaboo.

Mega Evolutions are different since they use an entirely different mechanic in the TCG. Similar to why we only get fossils in small bursts every so often.

As for specific forms... I don't think there's any great conspiracy for most of them. Pokemon like Basculin and Darmanitan simply aren't that popular. (Also, Darmanitan barely even counts, since it's an in-battle transformation anyway.) I will grant you that Florges only ever having had its Red colouring featured is odd, but most of the others have been represented as much as I'd expect. Given how Vivillon's forms work, short of using Elegant, Poke Ball or Fancy, there isn't much they can do without either basically picking a random form (potentially saddening people that prefer their local Vivillon to whichever was arbitrarily chosen), including a crapton in one art (which has happened before, but there's probably too many for that to work for Vivillon), or mass-releasing different arts of Vivillon (which isn't a super-popular Pokemon, so is unlikely). Pokemon like Gourgeist, Basculin and Aegislash have such minor form differences that it doesn't really matter which they go with. The only Sun/Moon-era Furfrou IS one of its non-standard trims. One-off forms like Spiky-Eared Pichu typically only get a single card, so Ash-Greninja not getting anything other than the EX isn't shocking. Aside from Florges (and by extension Flabebe/Floette), I'm not really seeing any Gen 5 or 6 forms that are glaring omissions. I guess Sawsbuck is also a thing, but I'd imagine the only reason we haven't gotten a Winter Sawsbuck is simply because Sawsbuck isn't an especially popular Pokemon (similar to why we haven't had a Basculin since the BW era or Sunflora since HGSS.)

It's also worth noting that most of these would add nothing from a GAMEPLAY standpoint, which is more important than completeness. Of all the forms I mentioned, only Zen Mode Darmanitan is functionally different from regular Darmanitan (being Psychic-type). Every other one is a cosmetic difference. When we do get a large number of alternate forms at once (such as with Unown or Wormadam), it's because they add something mechanically, or (like a Pokemon like Deoxys) have a unique trait they can build off of. A yellow Florges or Summer Sawsbuck doesn't really have such a niche.

 

[Frost]

They could never realistically include all the megas.

They easily could have included every Mega in the Gen 6 block, but they chose otherwise. They only had like seven of them left to add to the TCG (Pinsir, Lopunny, Latias, Abomasnow, Medicham, Banette, Sableye), but instead they issued second versions of Venusaur, Charizard Y, Blastoise, Gengar, Rayquaza and Gardevoir because they're more popular Pokemon.

And yeah you could say "but Shiny Mega Gengar was a promo" or "but the Kanto Pokemon were reprinted because of Evolutions," but so what? They could have released Mega Banette as a random one-off promo, or had Pinsir, Abomasnow and Banette in XY base set instead of Venusaur and Blastoise. Lopunny could have been in Roaring Skies in place of one of the two Mega Rayquaza types, etc.

 

[Blob55]

They easily could have included every Mega in the Gen 6 block, but they chose otherwise. They only had like seven of them left to add to the TCG (Pinsir, Lopunny, Latias, Abomasnow, Medicham, Banette, Sableye), but instead they issued second versions of Venusaur, Charizard Y, Blastoise, Gengar, Rayquaza and Gardevoir because they're more popular Pokemon.

And yeah you could say "but Shiny Mega Gengar was a promo" or "but the Kanto Pokemon were reprinted because of Evolutions," but so what? They could have released Mega Banette as a random one-off promo, or had Pinsir, Abomasnow and Banette in XY base set instead of Venusaur and Blastoise. Lopunny could have been in Roaring Skies in place of one of the two Mega Rayquaza types, etc.

Why aren't they releasing them now even? Mega Evos are still a thing people use in the video games, so why not the TCG too?