Kyurem (NV34) [11/26/2011]

Celebi23

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Card of the Day: Kyurem from Noble Victories

34-kyurem.jpg

Guiding Questions:
1. How does this card stand on its own (analyze the HP, attacks, Abilities, etc. of the card)?
2. What role does/could this card have in the metagame?
3. What cards, if any, does this card combo with?
4. Give it a rating (out of 10), and explain why you have given it that rating.

You are not required to follow the guiding questions, but make sure your post has informative and interesting content.
 
1. How does this card stand on its own (analyze the HP, attacks, Abilities, etc. of the card)?

This card has an excellent 130 HP and a great Metal weakness. Its Water typing makes it good against Reshiram, which is a large part of the metagame. It has a bad 2 RC, which isn't too fun.

Its first attack has just been recycled through dragons. Outrage is useful in lots of situations, particularly with cards that let you get a certain amount of damage on it.

Its second attack, Glaciate, costs WWC, so it's tough to use without energy acceleration. However, it spreads 30 damage everywhere, so it can do up to 180 damage in one attack if your opponent has a full bench.

2. What role does/could this card have in the metagame?

This is one of the only spreaders we have (aside from Tyranitar), meaning it fills a pretty much unused role. It could serve as a semi-counter to Reshiram or even as another option in DD, The Truth, or even Gothitelle/Reuniclus.

3. What cards, if any, does this card combo with?

This card can combo with:
Donphan, to power up Outrage.
Eviolite, to get some extra resistance to attacks.
Feraligatr, to get energy for Glaciate.
Floatzel+Shaymin/Blastoise, to get energy for Glaciate.
Electrode, to get energy for Glaciate.
Vileplume, to prevent OHKOs and damage removal.

4. Give it a rating (out of 10), and explain why you have given it that rating.

7/10.

This card has a lot of options, but until it proves worthwhile, I don't see it becoming a huge contender anywhere. It offers some options and can be overwhelming, but overall, it seems to suffer from not having truly great attacks.

First!
 
1. On it's own? Not too well, you need something to set up Glaciate, such as Electrode, Floatzel, Feraligatr Prime, or something else that can accelerate Water Energy. Outrage has it's own uses in decks like D&D and VIleplume Reuniclus varients. It has 130 HP which seems to be the magic number right now, but that may change with the release of the 180 HP + EXs. And it has a great weakness because Scizor and Steelix are hardly played anymore do to Reshiram, and the only Cobalion varient that comes to mind is CaKE.

2. I belive that Kyurem is a very good spreader and it can find it's way into quite a few meta decks as well as some decks of it's own. So I would say that it can serve a potentialy large role in the meta, but we'll have to wait untill after Cities to see for sure.

3. It combo with quite a few cards like I mentioned in answer #1. Electrode, Floatzel, Feraligatr Prime, or something else that can accelerate Water Energy.

4. I would give it a 10/10 because provided it can get set up right, it can kill a large portion of the meta, namley Gothitelle/Reuniclus and The Truth.
 
1. It has the magic 130 hp, which is great, its a basic, which is also great. 2 retreat isn't great but most things have that nowadays and at least its manageable (cough Donphan Prime cough). Weakness to steel used to be the best weakness in the metagame, but Cobalion NV is getting a fair bit of hype and it can OHKO Kyurem due to weakness, so we'll see. Water is a great type though, being super effective on fire types and Donphan while nothing resists it. Outrage is a great attack on something with so much health, but Glaciate seems rather lackluster as spread has never been very good and even if it is on a basic, the 3 energy min cost means it wouldn't be too fast.

2. With its Outrage attack, it is capable of OHKOing things weak to water after it takes some damage. Whether this is useful remains to be seen as Donphan is rapidly declining in popularity anyway and Reshiram can OHKO Kyurem with a PlusPower or help from Kingdra. It could be used as a spreader but I feel that spread has never been a very dominant form of damage and with cards like Eviolite, Max Potion, Blissey Prime, Serperior, and Reuniclus in the format it will have some troubles.

3. Feraliagtr is the most obvious card to pair it up witth as Feraliagtr is energy acceleration for water types and makes Glaciate's cost much more manageable. However, using it with Feraligatr means that you have to set up a stage 2, so it makes it harder to set up than Tyranitar, and Tyranitar was so awful that I'm not sure if the more damage can make up for it. Faster ways to charge Kyurem would be Electrode Prime, although that can be very risky and can make you deck out quickly if facing Durant, which can already be tough for Kyurem due to Eviolite and Special Metal Energy, There is the Floatzel+Shaymin combo, but Floatzel is catcher bait and isn't hard to OHKO, also Shaymin requires the use of Seeker and/or SSU to be consistent, so that hurts that strategy. You could use Blastoise in place of Shaymin, which makes it more consistent and gives it a way to beat Reuniclus, but that is the slowest version yet. Kyurem can be run with Reuniclus or Donphan solely for its Outrage attack beating Donphan and helping with Reshiram. However, D&D has too meager a damage output to keep up with many decks in the metagame like The Truth and G/R and Kyurem won't help it in that regard. G/R just uses the dragons for damage sponges and risks losing if they take Gothitelle out of the active spot long enough to attack with something else. The Truth still probably prefers SEL due to SEL's ability to absorb more damage and OHKO Donphan and Reshiram without leaving itself open for a revenge KO.

4. I give it a 5/10 and feel I'm being generous in doing so. I don't feel this card has much potential since it does not have many positive matchups in the metagame no matter who you pair it with and I don't think it will ever do much in a large tourney.
 
1. How does this card stand on its own (analyze the HP, attacks, Abilities, etc. of the card)?: Kyurem has the usual dragon stats, 130 HP is a beautiful amount for a basic, two retreat cost and no resistance are a little bit of a bummer, but the HP can easily make up for that. Weakness to Metal is a decent weakness this format, the only thing that is easily going to one shot Kyurem is Cobalion, since it hit the magic 130 number, the other dragon's can one shot it without a Pluspower. Water is a pretty good typing in this format, because it can give things like Donphan Prime, Reshiram and Typhlosion Prime issues. Outrage has already proven to be a great attack, being able to be built up with just a Double Colorless Energy makes Kyurem a pretty splash able counter to a lot of decks that are seeing play this format. Kyurem's second, and more unique attack, "Glaciate" is definitely interesting, and could have serious potential to be the center of a deck. A thirty damage spread is nothing to laugh at, and Kyurem can take a decent number of attacks, so it is very possible to get several knock outs to multiple benched Pokémon.

2. What role does/could this card have in the metagame?
Kyurem can do a bunch of different things in this metagame. As I mentioned before, Kyurem is splash able, and there are a lot of decks that utilize DCE that could benefit from a counter to something like Reshiram. With 5 damage counters, Kyurem could kill a Typhlosion Prime after a Pokémon Catcher, possibly crippling your opponent's energy acceleration system for the game. I think that Kyurem will see play as a tech in any remaining Donphan Dragons builds lingering around in our meta, because Donphan's Earthquake easily builds up Outrage, and a hard hitting Water type Pokémon gives you great type coverage. Another tech use that I see for Kyurem is in any decks that use the Trainer Lock Reuniclus combo that is becoming more and more popular. Since Kyurem has 130 HP, it isn't one shotted by Zekrom's Bolt Strike, or Reshiram's Blue Flare attack, this means that in a deck like google's you can move the damage off of the Kyurem, keeping it alive long enough to do a significant amount of spread to your opponent's field. Kyurem is a very good tech for google's because google's already plays Rainbow Energy, and off of the Twins engine, you shouldn't have much of a problem setting up Kyurem. With Kyurem set up, it is going to be very difficult for your opponent to stop you from getting several simultaneous kills with Glaciate because they will not be able to OHKO your Kyurem, meaning you can move all of the damage away from it and continue to attack. Outrage will also be useful for quick kills, because you can damage swap 120 damage onto your Kyurem if need be, allowing you to Outrage for massive amounts of damage. One other deck I can see Kyurem being used as a tech in is Blastoise Floatzel. It can quickly be powered up with Floatzel, and is an excellent back up attacker. Unfortunately, Blastoise Floatzel isn't a very good deck in the first place, and I don't think Kyurem is going to fix the autoloss to Zekrom.

Kyurem has several practical uses as the main attacker in a deck as well. One version of Kyurem that is seeing a decent amount of hype is CaKE. Kyurem can be powered up very quickly with Electrode Prime's Energymite Power, and after that, you can utilize the Twins engine. This makes Kyurem a very fast and consistent deck, that is easily able to provide large amounts of spread to your opponent's field relatively early in the game. With Cobalion as a back up attacker, CaKE could become a very popular and playable deck in the near future. The other version of Kyurem that many people are currently looking into (I prefer the Electrode version), is using Kyurem with Feraligatr Prime. This is a pretty straight forward deck concept, and I don't think I need to go into too much detail, Feraligatr Prime is used to quick power up multiple Kyurems. Spread is good. Delibird from HeartGold SoulSilver is a great way to draw cards later in the game.

3. What cards, if any, does this card combo with?
Ah, I think I covered this pretty well above.


4. Give it a rating (out of 10), and explain why you have given it that rating.: I think Kyurem has a lot of potential in this format. It has a great typing, and can be played with a large variety of cards. Whether it is used as a main attacker, or just a situational tech, I think that we will see a lot of Kyurem being played in this format. The other Dragons have been dominating this format, why not Kyurem? I am sure a lot of people are going to be looking forward to playing spread. 9/10.
 
Kyurem has seen, without a doubt, the most mixed reception in my experience of the pokemon TCG. Some people claim Kyurem variants will be a frontrunner for one of the best deck types in format, others claim Kyurem is overhyped, overrated, and useless overall. This card is identical to the other dragons in every way, save for having a spread attack as its main attack instead of the iconic 120 for three that has shaped this meta and the expectations we now have for "good" cards (the "magic number" for HP is a perfect example of this).

Spreading the Love: What difference does it make?

Well, for one, it makes the card very unforgiving. If an opposing deck cannot get set up, particularly any deck that relies on evolutions, you're probably looking at two or three free prizes right off the bat, while disrupting the deck's entire setup. That can be enough to completely shift the momentum of the game in your favor, KOing their remaining pokemon before they can even take half their prizes. This strongly affects decks like Tyram, Megazone, and Gothetelle; the first two suffer due to running low Twins counts to rebound from a bad setup, and the latter suffers due to the low 30 HP of Solosis, which get OHKO'ed by Kyurem.

On the other hand, if an opposing deck gets all its evolutions online, things take a sharp turn for the worst against the ice dragon. Most stage 2s and even stage 1s like Yanmega Prime have enough HP to survive a few Glaciate attacks, while dishing out more powerful attacks of their own that can either OHKO or two shot Kyurems at will. ZPST is a particularly bad matchup since its main attackers all have high HP, the low HP techs are more or less expendable when dropped, and ZPST has the fastest setup in the format: all serious problems for a Kyurem player to face, and something Eviolite only makes worse. In this sense, Kyurem relies very heavily on the other opponent, and how consistent his deck is, the Twins count he plays, and whether or not he can hit that T2/T3 setup. Whether an opponent can do that or not ultimately determines the pace for the rest of the game in a Kyurem matchup.

Even Bullies Have Friends: Possible Partners for Kyurem

While setting up faster than your opponent is a given, it pretty much defines the purpose of this deck due to its ability to bully lo HP basics but get thrashed by high HP basics. Energy acceleration is a must. The most popular means of energy acceleration at this time are Feraligatr Prime and Electrode Prime. Feraligatr Prime attaches several water energy to one or many Kyurems, while Electrode Prime sacrifices a prize card to attach any and all energy to your pokemon in play within the top seven cards of your deck, while sending any non energy to the discard. Feraligatr was originally suspected to be the popular pairing, as it provided consistent energy drops, had an attack that worked reasonably well with Glaciate, and was ultimately a deck concept we were very comfortable with due to its similarities with Reshiboar. However, Electode Prime has recently supplanted Ferligatr in quite a few Kyurem decks, leading to the hyped CaKE deck (which stands for Cobalion and Kyurem, Electrode). At a glance, Electrode Prime's Energymite seems vastly inferior to Feraligatr Prime's Rain Dance. However, Electrode Prime offers a few very important things that might be more important that even constant energy drops.

Electrode is a stage one, and that means a lot in a format built around speed, pokemon catcher, and no universal draw engine of consequence that Kyurem can enjoy. Getting a stage 2 out quickly without built in draw is very difficult, and Kyurem does not have enough of a reliable late game to really count on the T3/T4 setup. Being a stage 1, Electrode can be set up with great consistency by the second turn, which can be crucial in Kyurem. The second important thing Electrode does is deny the opponent a card that is soft to Pokemon Catcher. As soon as Electrode is dropped, the player will probably discard it to use Energymite. This leaves no support pokemon to drag out in order to kill the acceleration engine, or stall out the deck in general due to a high retreat cost. Both are very important to Kyurem, which needs constant Glaciates to score KOs. Most importantly, Electrode puts you down in prizes. This gives Kyurem a huge advantage because it can now use Twins to further speed up its setup, while denying any deck that relies on Twins (such as Gothetelle), use of its Twins unless Kyruem scores two or more KOs when it attacks. In this sense, Electrode does everything Kyurem needs to: accelerate energy, set up fast, and deny the opponent's setup.

Other Techs

In addition to energy acceleration, Kyurem decks also need a lot of disruption to slow down your opponent's setup or stall for time should the worst happen. This format has plenty of options to choose from to disrupt opponents and supplement Kyurem's attack. I'm going to break down what I believe to be the important ones below:

Judge I expect this will be a staple in at least some Kyurem decks, probably CaKE more than Kyurgatr due to the greater difficulty in setting up a Stage 2 pokemon. By forcing your opponent to constantly refresh into a small hand, you run the chance of slowing down your opponent long enough to use Glaciates with relative impunity. In a deck like CaKE especially, which can deny the opponent's Twins play, putting an opponent to four cards can shift the momentum irrevocably in a Kyurem player's favor. I will even go as far as to say that, if a CaKE deck is set up, playing Judge as a follow up instead of Twins might be the better play provided Kyurem is set up and the opponent is not. The added Disruption could be very worth it. This is a card that I think should be run in counts of three or four.

N N is a card that might see more play in Kyuremgatr decks since it gives a PONT class refresh in the early game in addition to its disruption. Those extra two cards could be very important in setting up Feraligatr. On the other hand, N also gives your opponent a larger hand to work with to try and rebound with if they are behind. It can be argued that locking an opponent down into a 1-2 card hand might be useful with N in a close game or if a deck is seriously trouncing a Kyurem variant, but cards like N and Judge are ideally supposed to stop the setup in the first place. If Kyurem is given up four prizes to a completely setup opposing deck, the game is probably lost anyway since the opponent will have enough board presence to whether a couple turns without draw unless they lose all their main attackers with energy in the following turn or two. I think N is worth running, but in smaller counts than Judge. I find 4/2 to be a good number.

Pokemon Catcher I think this card could be very useful depending on the matchup, but almost exclusively for the purpose of stalling or KOing pokemon like Cyndaquil that are weak to water. Either slows the opponent's setup down, and warrants running a least a couple, or one to junk arm if its all you can fit.

Suicune Entei Legend Moving into attack techs, SEL can be used to finish off weakened pokemon on the bench, just like Feraligatr, and if a player really fears the type disadvantage of Kyurem, SEL does cover it by being a fire type. This card could theoretically be run in either deck, though Electrode might need to use two Energymites: one to fall behind and Twins into SEL, and one to actually put energy on SEL, an investment that I'm not sold on. Feraligatr is a bit more self explanatory with Rain Dance and a simple Fire Attachment, but it makes the overall deck design even slower, which is not good for a deck that really needs the T2/T3 setup, possibly more than any deck in the format. Lightning weakness and giving up two prizes isn't so hot either.

Blastoise UL Blastoise is used for the same reason SEL would. The main differences are that it runs exclusively on water, does not give up two prizes, but is also a stage two. One advantage Blastoise offers is being able to move water energy, which is nice, but the card is a bad play with Electrode since having a stage two engine ultimately defeats the purpose of Electrode's speed. Squirtle is also a very bad start in a CaKE variant. Feraligatr is the better call if you decide to run Blastoise. I think this card is better than SEL once it gets on the board, but getting it out can be a hassle and might not be worth the trouble.

Darkrai Cresseila Legend I haven't heard too much talk about this card being run with Kyurem, but it makes sense. Running on one psychic energy, Moon's Invite is much easier to get online than either of SEL's attacks, and takes perfect advantage of Glaciate's spread by KOing key pokemon. I also think DCL's fighting/psychic weakness is ultimately better. Gothetelle can be crippled by a well timed DCL drop, and fighting pokemon have fallen into relative obscurity. The one problem with DCL is that it requires the use of rainbow or psychic energy. However, I still think it's a better play than the other two attack techs.

Pluspower Adds 10 extra damage. This card has a good use in the Donphan and Tyram matchups since it allows Kyurem to OHKO active Quilavas and Phanpys with Glaciate. This really adds pressure in the Tyram matchup since this makes any avenue to Typholosion other than Rare Candy a risky play, and that extra bit of slowing down the opponent may help. However, in other matchups, Pluspower's uses become greatly diminished.

Eviolite Great for increasing survivability. This card makes OHKOing Kyurem substantially harder and can be very useful if the opponent does get set up. I actually take a controversial stance and think that early game setup and disruption is more important than the twenty less damage late game, but it is undeniable that Eviolite provides a good line of defense against a deck that sets up quickly.

Twins Due to the fact that Kyurem has a spread attack, Kyurem can potentially abuse Twins relentlessly if it falls behind. Glaciate cannot OHKO many pokemon in the metagame other than Solosis, babies, and one of the two Tynamos. This makes two Twins plays a fairly realistic prospect, while all the while setting up multiple KOs on the opponent's board. This is an ideal position for Kyurem to be in, but also demands falling behind in prizes before your opponent is set up. Due to Electrode Prime, this is a very plausible situation, and Twins should be run in high numbers in any CaKE variant.

Overall I give Kyurem an 8/10. It has a lot of tools to help it set up and disrupt the opponent. It's spread attack is unforgiving in the early game, and there are enough techs that can help in the late game should a player choose to run one. ZPST is an abominably bad matchup for Kyurem however, and it's popularity could bring Kyurem down, especially if it relies on Electrode to get set up, giving ZPST yet another prize early on. It also has a use with Donphan Prime in the popular DnD deck, giving that deck even more type coverage. Overall, flexibility, good type advantage, Twins abuse, and an unforgiving attack provides good matchups against many other decks that rely on evolutions, making an altogether decent, and very interesting, main attacker in the HGSS on format. Personally, I think Kyurem is a very cool card.

[/sand=Magnevire] (obviously lol) -Celebi23
 
1. It has great HP for a basic. Its first attack allows it to act as a Donaphan or a Reshiram counter, not the best, but an OK one. It's second attack is arguably the best spreading attack right now, but it costs way to much. Double retreat is hard, and Metal weakness is almost unexploitable.
2. It could be a counter for Donaphan/Reshiram, or make a spread-style deck.
3. It combos with Feraligatr Prime and with Blastoise UL.
4. I give it a 7/10: Usable but not game breaking.
 
1. How does this card stand on its own (analyze the HP, attacks, Abilities, etc. of the card)?

Like the other both Dragons it looks great for a basic, except of his second attack. Reshiram and Zekrom make a permanent 120 damage, whil Kyurem spread his damage. Which looks great if you count the damage together, but and this is the great minus on this card, if you have no or only few damage counters on kyurem, the 30 damage of the second attack can't KO a opponent Pokemon. So it's far away from being any revenge killer or something like this otherwise to the other both dragons.

2. What role does/could this card have in the metagame?
It can improve the power of water decks and so weakened a little bit the power of reshiram and make the metagame a little bit bigger.
But Kyurem must improve if it's only theory or if it really that big.

3. What cards, if any, does this card combo with?
I think the best option is the feraligatr deck option. Wether with blastoise or not. I think even Kingdra prime work well with this card. Or if you can find a consistent build with feraligatr, kyurem and hydreigon together with shaymin engine can work well. (at least at theory XD)

4. Give it a rating (out of 10), and explain why you have given it that rating.

I think 6 is to less and 8 too much so 7 is my answer cause this card can't do big damage on a single target without the opponent or the help of other pokemon like reunicleus.


MHG Mana
 
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