XY Learnable moves revision

Chrono

Chrono

Ragin' Cajun
Member
Previous generations have always brought changes to learnable move sets with them, even when the moves already existed in the previous games. What do you think generation 6 will bring? Remember to support your views with good arguments and avoid posting only naming Pokémon and their moves. *Drohn

One thing that needs to be changed that has bothered me for years:

Zangoose cannot learn Cut.

The thing has giant claws for crying out loud!
Seriously, what gives?
[private] This was previously posted as a reply to the "Will Pokémon other than Fairy have their types revised this generation?" thread. It was off-topic, but I liked the subject so I made this thread for it and edited it a bit *Drohn [/private]
 
One thing I find strange is that Pokémon like Meganium and Serperior can learn Dragon Tail, but Sceptile, who is in the Dragon Egg-group cannot. It learns a lot other Dragon-type attacks and I think it should be able to learn Dragon Tail.
 
Hmm, maybe make it so Whismur can learn Sonicboom. It's a good move for early game with the constant 20 damage. It was helpful on my Magnemite in White 2.

Also, I would love to see Forretress being able to learn Curse again. It's a great move for it.
 
Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem need to get earthquake, I mean even Riolu gets it.
 
Phanpy and Water Gun, oh good old Crystal..

I'm all in for moves that make sense, Cut on Zangoose as said before, but I also think they need to cut on some moves; Toxic for example, why can a Raichu learn Toxic? I might be a decent attack to have on a Pokémon, but it doesn't make sense. They should limit it to Poison type Pokémon and a few other Pokémon, it would give the Poison type a slight boost as well, a boost it desperately needs. GameFreak has never done this on a large scale, all they do is add even more in an attempt to balance things out. I wouldn't mind seeing some movesets getting a lot shorter this generation.
 
VIBRAVA. FLYGON.
BUG BUZZ. U-TURN. QUICK ATTACK, EXTREMESPEED?

Vibrava is an adult antlion, it looks like a dragonfly, it's sleek as hell. why doesn't it learn u-turn or quick attack? extremspeed might be a little extreme, but awesome nonetheless.
Bug buzz is ovbious, vibrava can generate sound waves by flapping it's wings and flygon's sound like music, they even learn sonicboom, supersonic and screech, why not the only bug type move that uses sound to cause damage? I would have thought it would be a staple of the duo.

MAREEP. FLAAFFY. AMPHAROS.
TAIL GLOW.
SHIT.

I know tail glow's japanese name is "firefly light", but WHY? WHY IN THE FLIPPIN' F*** CAN'T THEY LEARN IT? phione learns it, and it's not a firefly, it's a marine creature with some bioluminiscence, so why can't the light giving sheep pokemon shine like one of the few real world animals that can give light? they even learn signal beam...
And giving them a unique sp. attack double triple boost can make them competitively viable, as a bonus.

MISMAGIUS.
ANY GOOD MOVE.
F***.

Mismagius's movepool is shameful. Seriously. It's crap. she learns some good moves as misdreavus, but she doesn't have an incentive to evolve besides the stats and looking freakin' awesome and classy. Oh, sorry, she has one: lucky chant. That's it. Lucky m******** chant; does anybody even uses that move? (not that it doesn't fit, but it's so useless...) magical leaf also (which fits, I guess), but if you want to give it a grass move it's better to go with energy ball (gains the ability to learn it through TM after evolving).
Mismagius is a witch, for arceus's sake! she should learn all the tricky moves that leave your opponent calling you names under their breath: nasty plot (currently egg move, only accessible through spiritomb), wonder room, magic room, trick room, ominous wind, magic coat (hell, it should have magic guard as ability, rather than levitate), wish, and other magical moves, can't think of any more right now.

Those cases really piss me off. And if it weren't for BW2, vibrava and flygon's list would be much bigger.
 
@ pokequaza Well yeah I agree, Some moves dont make sense at all, take tyranitar learning surf for instance, they hate water why would it learn it if tyranitar hates water??? I dont understand why scyther cant learn fly, wooper can learn Ice Punch and Shroomish can learn Focus Punch but they dont even have hand to hit with??? just want a little bit of logic in the games
 
The follow statements are obviously biased since I'm a Turtwig fan:

So I was thinking that Sceptile and Serperior's evolution lines both get this one move that has very low distribution (In gen III only Grovyle and Sceptile got those move). This is one of the strongest physical Grass-type moves (and if I remember right, the strongest without a single drawback. In fact, it even has a high critical hit ratio. What move is this? Well if you haven't an idea yet, it's Leaf Blade.

Okay, so while Torterra does not have any blades, let's note that Pokemon like Farfetch'd have the attack to abuse the critical hit ratio of an item (Stick) or Absol. They aren't grass-types, yet they get the attack. (Although Absol does have a blade).

Torterra gets Razor Leaf and Leaf Storm. Plus, branches in its tree could be used as Blades. Wood Hammer is the strongest physical attack for Torterra, although it gets recoil damage. Plus Torterra is the hardest hitter with that move. Even if that doesn't make sense, look at Turtwig. It has two sharp leaves at the tip of its twig. If it can learn Razor Leaf, which creates sharp leaf-shaped blades, shouldn't it get Leaf Blade? Maybe it's just me, but I dunno :/

The following others are not biased, so feel free to take them seriously:

Aerodactyl doesn't even have a hard flying-type attack for its dual rock/flying typing. I think Aerial Ace is its best shot. I think that if anything, it should get Brave Bird. This would give Aerodactyl a fighting chance and lets it have a reason for that Stealth Rock weakness.

Gengar should have Nasty Plot. It's a Pokemon that dwells in the shadows of people, cooling the temperature, and thinking of how to torture them.

Snorlax should get Slack Off. It sleeps ALL DAY.

Zapdos should get Air Slash. It bothers me that in UU it has to suffer a flying typing while only having HP Flying as an option. Sure, it's almost as powerful, but imagine a bulky Discharge / Air Slash set. 30% paralysis while an extra 30% flinch rate with Air Slash.

Tauros should get Extremespeed. With Intimidate, Sheer Force, and many moves to use, one would ask--why add Extremespeed? This is its best shot at priority. Let's say Rock Climb doesn't kill, it leaves just a smidgen. Too bad, the defending Pokemon is faster than you and can one-shot. With Extremespeed on a Pokemon as fast as Latios only makes sense.
 
Well, off the top of my head...

Flareon and Entei NEED Flare Blitz... I mean, how do they not have the ultimate physical Fire move?! Really, any physical fire move besides Fire Fang would be a huge boost to their abilities.

Actually, all three legendary beasts need the moves their Zoroark movie promo versions came with. Entei's moves were practically perfect, Raikou with Aura Sphere was awesome, and Extremespeed made total sense for all three since they're known for running at high speed.

One thing I'd like to see less of is Stealth Rock. That move is WAY over abused, and I was so happy to see it dropped from the B/W TM list... and then they made it a Move Tutor move in B2/W2. Stealth Rock is way too cheap to be so readily available, they need to either cut down on who can use it, or nerf it... or both.

Also, I wanna see Mewtwo gain access to Dragon-type moves. One of the best types to counter all those dragons (Reshiram in particular), and Mewtwo doesn't learn even one Dragon-type move?
 
Thetwiggy13 said:
Okay, so while Torterra does not have any blades, let's note that Pokemon like Farfetch'd have the attack to abuse the critical hit ratio of an item (Stick) or Absol. They aren't grass-types, yet they get the attack. (Although Absol does have a blade).
Click to expand...
I think for Farfetch'd it makes sense to learn Leaf Blade, since he always cares a leek with him that he can use to Slash with. I don't see Torterra slashing, which is required for Leaf Blade. He can learn Seed Bomb, though! It's not as strong and doesn't have a high critical hit ratio, but it still has a good base power. I'm also quite sure Absol doesn't learn Leaf Blade.

Thetwiggy13 said:
Gengar should have Nasty Plot. It's a Pokemon that dwells in the shadows of people, cooling the temperature, and thinking of how to torture them.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. I think Gengar should learn that move and also Shadow Sneak. The Pokémon is based on a shadow, but doesn't learn the move Shadow Sneak.

@SuperDuper, Sonicboom would make sense for a Pokémon based on sound
@Ghost King, TOO MANY Ground and Rock Pokémon can learn Surf. It doesn't make sense to me. Why can Pokémon as Rhyperior and Nidoking learn so many different elemental attacks?
@Pokequaza, I also think Toxic should have been limited to Poison-type and perhaps Bug-type and some excepions instead of almost every Pokémon.
@professorlight, I also agree with everything you mentioned.
@J.D., I agree a lot Pokémon learn Stealth Rock, and I don't get why Pokémon like Chansey learn it. But in general I think it makes sense for most of them since they are Ground/Rock/Steel-type Pokémon.
@Trainerhan1, It's strange that such strong Pokémon can't learn that attack, learned by so many others.
@Thetwiggy13, I agree with most of your points, but I don't see Torterra with Leaf Blade. Tauros has a very high speed base stat, so I don't think it would need ExtremeSpeed often.
 
Grass types's movepools are very limited, and certain sets of moves often repeat themselves in several pokemon, making them very much alike. I would like to see massive changes to grass types's movepools, with the addition of different type moves and many new grass moves, more specific.

Another two I have a problem with:

SNIVY. SERVINE. SERPERIOR.
POWER WHIP.
F***.

Serperior's movepool is famously crappy, it learns both physical and special moves, and vey few damaging ones. They learn vine whip (which SHOULD get a power boost, or at least cause a speed debuff to the foe) why don't they learn power whip? THEIR WHOLE F****** BODY IS A GIANT G****** WHIP! how do they use slam? or leaf blade? they sure don't use their stubby arms. They do it with the tail! so what's the point of a pokemon whose STAB moves are vine whip, leaf blade, leaf tornado and leaf storm, (with the support of coil and growth. COIL!) but doesn't learn a high power physical STAB? which is the next step of one of the moves they already learn? for starter's standards, serperior is pretty useless, at least until we get a contrary leaf storm serperior, which will never happen.

CHIKORITA. BAYLEEF. MEGANIUM.
SEED BOMB.

Is it just me, or does anybody else when seeing the leaves in bayleef's neck think of missiles? imagine those things just glowing and launching six freaking rays, carpet bombing the opponent. awesome. Besides, the line has almost the same attack as sp. attack so it doesn't go against convenience (and they already learn razor leaf and body slam)
 
Rhydon, Tyrannitar, Nidoking etc can learn Surf because they were all slightly inspired by Gozilla, it's just a small reference to the Japanese culture. I might seem odd, but it has at least some decent reasoning behind it.
 
I've been reading this thread and I'm shocked by what pokemon can and cannot learn, to say the least.

So let's say if GF does work out the backwards compatibility and some moves are dropped from certain pokemons' movesets. Would they like, force the pokemon to forget the moves? Could they do that?
 
What they have done in the past is that you cannot select Pokémon that do not meet the standard to be transferred. You would be responsible for taking it to the Move Deleter in this case. I don't know if they will do something like this, though. I would like to see more logic in the move sets, but I doubt they will remove the ability of learning moves other than Move Tutor moves.
 
Jakeremix said:
I've been reading this thread and I'm shocked by what pokemon can and cannot learn, to say the least.

So let's say if GF does work out the backwards compatibility and some moves are dropped from certain pokemons' movesets. Would they like, force the pokemon to forget the moves? Could they do that?
Click to expand...

They could, but they wouldn't, if the Gen III -> Gen IV and Gen IV -> Gen V transfers are anything to go by. The only moves that disallow transfer are HM moves, for whatever reason. You can have a Charizard with Double Edge (Gen III tutor) in B/W, for example.
The only time stronger restrictions were in place was when you were trading between Gens I and II, because there were newer Pokemon and moves that didn't exist in Gen I's coding, and obviously they don't want you messing anything up with that d:
 
Umbreon, the most loved eeveelution (determined by practically every poll ever), isn't loved much by GF. As a support he is fun, but from an attacking stand point, it's just sad. He lacks a good stab dark physical move aside from payback, which has obvious problems. Heck he lacks a good stab dark move period. Come to think of it, is there even a dark type move that does 100 or more damage??? This is an issue. GF needs to make one, then give it to Umbreon, This way he can curse it up and then do that move instead of relying on the curse payback combo (which, while actually really good together, is only 100 damage and unreliable). In face, a better alternative would be to give him bulk up and a new physical dark type move with damage over 100. That way his abysmal speed doesn't get any worse than it already is, AND he has a better weapon.
 
What bothers me sometimes are those Pokemon that gain types after evolving, yet don't learn the respective moves...

Take Excadrill for example. It gains Steel, yet the only Steel move in its learnset (Metal Claw), was already fine on the list before it even gained that type... (not to mention Metal Claw is shit)

Very similar case with Lucario.
The Dragon Pulse is much more noteworthy on its learnset, than that lonely crappy Metal Claw...might have as well become Fighting/Dragon (is it me or does that actually seem cool and just as appropriate now that I thought of it?)

Thetwiggy13 said:
Zapdos should get Air SlashHURRICANE
Click to expand...

fixed :^)
 
Ohman177 said:
Umbreon, the most loved eeveelution (determined by practically every poll ever), isn't loved much by GF. As a support he is fun, but from an attacking stand point, it's just sad. He lacks a good stab dark physical move aside from payback, which has obvious problems. Heck he lacks a good stab dark move period. Come to think of it, is there even a dark type move that does 100 or more damage??? This is an issue. GF needs to make one, then give it to Umbreon, This way he can curse it up and then do that move instead of relying on the curse payback combo (which, while actually really good together, is only 100 damage and unreliable). In face, a better alternative would be to give him bulk up and a new physical dark type move with damage over 100. That way his abysmal speed doesn't get any worse than it already is, AND he has a better weapon.
Click to expand...

Yes! I forgot about umbreon. Mostly crappy offensive moves (the dark type itself are mostly crappy or gimmicky offensive moves). but at least, in BW2 it can learn snarl by TM and foul play and dark pulse by move tutor (as annoying as that is).
So that's my strategy with umbreon: confuse ray/toxic, moonlight, screech and foul play/faint attack/assurance (does the confusion/poison damage counts for assurance?) or snarl, dark pulse, moonlight, shadow ball.
 
professorlight said:
Ohman177 said:
Umbreon, the most loved eeveelution (determined by practically every poll ever), isn't loved much by GF. As a support he is fun, but from an attacking stand point, it's just sad. He lacks a good stab dark physical move aside from payback, which has obvious problems. Heck he lacks a good stab dark move period. Come to think of it, is there even a dark type move that does 100 or more damage??? This is an issue. GF needs to make one, then give it to Umbreon, This way he can curse it up and then do that move instead of relying on the curse payback combo (which, while actually really good together, is only 100 damage and unreliable). In face, a better alternative would be to give him bulk up and a new physical dark type move with damage over 100. That way his abysmal speed doesn't get any worse than it already is, AND he has a better weapon.
Click to expand...

Yes! I forgot about umbreon. Mostly crappy offensive moves (the dark type itself are mostly crappy or gimmicky offensive moves). but at least, in BW2 it can learn snarl by TM and foul play and dark pulse by move tutor (as annoying as that is).
So that's my strategy with umbreon: confuse ray/toxic, moonlight, screech and foul play/faint attack/assurance (does the confusion/poison damage counts for assurance?) or snarl, dark pulse, moonlight, shadow ball.
Click to expand...

0.o o gosh I don't have BW2 so I never knew about foul play. That opens up a whole different option. It works amazingly because his attack is only 65 so most things have more. And you wouldn't need curse then because you don't need to boost your attack. In that case I would like Umbreon to have stockpile to boost his amazing defense and special defense at the same time, as well as maybe agility to boost his bad speed. That way he could run a Wish, Foul Play, Meanlook, Stockpile moveset OR a Wish, Foul Play, Agility, Meanlook. Or even the one I said in the other post.
Bottom line is Umbreon would actually be usable with: Stockpile, Agility, bulk up, and a stronger dark move.
 
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