Lost Zone
- Thread starter Sonic Gal
- Start date
I think Dialga, Giritina, and Palkia will send stuff to the lost zone, Azelf Mespirit and Uxie will recieve the lost cards (maybe) and Arceus will do something. (like nulify all effects of lost zone)
Anyway this can prove to be nice, we have three level Xs (who aren't the most durable things in the world,) and a single basic that can send things to the lost zone I don't think it'll grow to much larger.
Anyway this can prove to be nice, we have three level Xs (who aren't the most durable things in the world,) and a single basic that can send things to the lost zone I don't think it'll grow to much larger.
Ok, so you have a 1-0-1 Kingdra that you can't get back. Big deal. use your other 3 Kingdras.
The main flaw I see with the lost zone is that the pokemon have the inability to score OHKOs. Giratina IFDS has a damage output of 50 for 3? Good job, you can OHKO a Ralts. By the time you have three energies on Giratina, I will be keeping all my pokemon that are in range of being KO'd benched. And not to mention Tyranitar = OHKO for two energy. Machamp = OHKO for one energy. Magmortar = OHKO with five energy (not that hard if you use Leafeon Lv.X).
Giratina Lv.X is better than normal Giratina IFDS (obviously, its a Lv.X). But still, with the same principals as Giratina, by the time you have 4 Energy on it, I will have prepared my self for the 30 Snipe. It does have 30 more HP which saves it's tail in the long run from Tyranitar easy KO's, but Machamp still OHKOs you.
Dialga G Lv.X is a pokemon that I could see causing some disruption. It can shut down PokeBodies which can hurt Tyranitar. It's ability to put energies in the lost zone is dangerous in the fact that you can't get them back. But how many heads can you flip? And if I see the Dialga, I'll know to spread out my energies just incase something terrible were to happen with you coin flips. It does have a good damage out put of 80, but unfortuanatly a lot of Stage 1 pokemon now have 90 HP instead of the usuall 80, meaning you lose the OHKO factor. PP and Buck can always help though. Dialga G (non Lv.X) could cause some disruption with Pierce ([m][c] 10 no Trainers or Stadiums next turn) but in the end, Dialga just seems slower than Giratina, and is weak to fire. By the time these cards are out, we'll have Shaymin Lv.X, and all the uber Grass pokemon in SF, meaning that Kingdra and other water decks will not be able to keep up. These two factors plus people exmerimenting with Heatran Lv.X means Fire will be more popular. Magmortar gets the OHKO for only 3 Energy (unless you have Metal), and again, Machamp gets the OHKO no matter what.
Palkia G Lv.X is the only card that makes me a little nervous. The fact that it doesn't have to even attack to put pokemon into the Lost Zone can keep people on their toes. The sad thing is though, is that once I see the Palkia Lv.X, I won't play any more benched pokemon. But the thing that makes it a card that you can play around is the fact that each player gets to choose which pokemon get sent to the lost zone. Another sad thing is, is that if you use a starter in your deck (and this format, people are finding that starters are going to be needed more and more) and it got stuck on the bench from a Warp Point/Retreat, it would be my first choice to Send to the Lost Zone. If I still have to choose a pokemon, any "bench sitter" tech (such as Azelf or Uxie who activate only when you play them down and then you never use them the rest of the game) would also be candidates for being Lost Zoned. It's attack isn't too much to fear, since I doubt it will ever attack. If it ever becomes active, Machamp OHKO's it, along with Raichu Lv.X (that is, if it survives untill we get GC).
Overall, I don't really think that the Lost Zone is something to be scared of. The pokemon require too high of an energy cost to pull off a quick unexpected KO into the Lost Zone. Luxray will always linger in this format, there is nothing we can do to stop it as long as Lv.X's are being played, and if you use one of these pokemon, you will get hurt, and badly. They all have a common theme of suffering from Machamp, who I can almost guarantee will not be forgotten when we get GC. They all have weaknesses that really hurt and cause them to be KO'd easier. They all lack the damage out put (with perhaps the exception of Giratina Lv.X) to score OHKO's on almost all Stage 2 Pokemon, and some of the Stage 1 Pokemon that are in the Metagame. They are all easy to play around, and not very easy to set up. All in all, Palkia Lv.X is really the only one that you have to worry about, and still, it can be played around. The fact that they have to be active to get the Lv.X also can be a pain, but Level Max may be a way to work around this issue.
Also, just to point out, that all though the Lost Zone may exist in two Japanese Sets, we will probably not get Giratina in our SF, but get it in time with the Movie, meaning that we will only have Lost Zone pokemon in our GC.
The main flaw I see with the lost zone is that the pokemon have the inability to score OHKOs. Giratina IFDS has a damage output of 50 for 3? Good job, you can OHKO a Ralts. By the time you have three energies on Giratina, I will be keeping all my pokemon that are in range of being KO'd benched. And not to mention Tyranitar = OHKO for two energy. Machamp = OHKO for one energy. Magmortar = OHKO with five energy (not that hard if you use Leafeon Lv.X).
Giratina Lv.X is better than normal Giratina IFDS (obviously, its a Lv.X). But still, with the same principals as Giratina, by the time you have 4 Energy on it, I will have prepared my self for the 30 Snipe. It does have 30 more HP which saves it's tail in the long run from Tyranitar easy KO's, but Machamp still OHKOs you.
Dialga G Lv.X is a pokemon that I could see causing some disruption. It can shut down PokeBodies which can hurt Tyranitar. It's ability to put energies in the lost zone is dangerous in the fact that you can't get them back. But how many heads can you flip? And if I see the Dialga, I'll know to spread out my energies just incase something terrible were to happen with you coin flips. It does have a good damage out put of 80, but unfortuanatly a lot of Stage 1 pokemon now have 90 HP instead of the usuall 80, meaning you lose the OHKO factor. PP and Buck can always help though. Dialga G (non Lv.X) could cause some disruption with Pierce ([m][c] 10 no Trainers or Stadiums next turn) but in the end, Dialga just seems slower than Giratina, and is weak to fire. By the time these cards are out, we'll have Shaymin Lv.X, and all the uber Grass pokemon in SF, meaning that Kingdra and other water decks will not be able to keep up. These two factors plus people exmerimenting with Heatran Lv.X means Fire will be more popular. Magmortar gets the OHKO for only 3 Energy (unless you have Metal), and again, Machamp gets the OHKO no matter what.
Palkia G Lv.X is the only card that makes me a little nervous. The fact that it doesn't have to even attack to put pokemon into the Lost Zone can keep people on their toes. The sad thing is though, is that once I see the Palkia Lv.X, I won't play any more benched pokemon. But the thing that makes it a card that you can play around is the fact that each player gets to choose which pokemon get sent to the lost zone. Another sad thing is, is that if you use a starter in your deck (and this format, people are finding that starters are going to be needed more and more) and it got stuck on the bench from a Warp Point/Retreat, it would be my first choice to Send to the Lost Zone. If I still have to choose a pokemon, any "bench sitter" tech (such as Azelf or Uxie who activate only when you play them down and then you never use them the rest of the game) would also be candidates for being Lost Zoned. It's attack isn't too much to fear, since I doubt it will ever attack. If it ever becomes active, Machamp OHKO's it, along with Raichu Lv.X (that is, if it survives untill we get GC).
Overall, I don't really think that the Lost Zone is something to be scared of. The pokemon require too high of an energy cost to pull off a quick unexpected KO into the Lost Zone. Luxray will always linger in this format, there is nothing we can do to stop it as long as Lv.X's are being played, and if you use one of these pokemon, you will get hurt, and badly. They all have a common theme of suffering from Machamp, who I can almost guarantee will not be forgotten when we get GC. They all have weaknesses that really hurt and cause them to be KO'd easier. They all lack the damage out put (with perhaps the exception of Giratina Lv.X) to score OHKO's on almost all Stage 2 Pokemon, and some of the Stage 1 Pokemon that are in the Metagame. They are all easy to play around, and not very easy to set up. All in all, Palkia Lv.X is really the only one that you have to worry about, and still, it can be played around. The fact that they have to be active to get the Lv.X also can be a pain, but Level Max may be a way to work around this issue.
Also, just to point out, that all though the Lost Zone may exist in two Japanese Sets, we will probably not get Giratina in our SF, but get it in time with the Movie, meaning that we will only have Lost Zone pokemon in our GC.
Your arguing seemed to be trying convincing us that we should not be concerned about this.
But I am.
I am concerned how they're trying to alter the gameplay. Pokemon TCG was Pokemon TCG. Now it starts to look more similar to Yu-Gi-Oh when GC comes out. First is the out of play area that Yu-Gi-Oh has and the second is the trap card that interferes the opponents gameplay. I don't want these two here. Pokemon was special in its own way and now its merging into a pre-existing game? They can do better than that.
But I am.
I am concerned how they're trying to alter the gameplay. Pokemon TCG was Pokemon TCG. Now it starts to look more similar to Yu-Gi-Oh when GC comes out. First is the out of play area that Yu-Gi-Oh has and the second is the trap card that interferes the opponents gameplay. I don't want these two here. Pokemon was special in its own way and now its merging into a pre-existing game? They can do better than that.
I see. You are scared that this new concept will take away it's originality. Don't worry though.
Think about it.
Though I have never played YGO, I know that it has... strange game principles. My parents won't let me play it because it is too "dark". That is fine with me. Pokemon has always been a fun game thats way different. Pokemon games is the SOTG, and almost all people who play the TCG have this, from the person that goes 0-4 at his very first Battle Roads to the World Champion. And though cards may seem different in a way, there
But the Lost Zone is based off the Torn World in Platinum, which is a different dimension. That is unique to Pokemon, and it is not turning into YGO or MTG. One thing that seperates Pokemon from all these other were a lot of new concepts introduced through out the TCG, such as Owner's Pokemon, Pokemon Crystal, Pokemon EX, Pokemon *, Pokemon Lv.X, and now Pokemon G. There were also new concepts introduced to the TCG, such as "baby evolution", faster set up with Rare Candy, Special Metal Energy, Special Dark Energy, Supporter cards, Stadium cards, Pokemon Tools, and TMs. Then there were a lot of rules being changed, such as not having to flip for retreating when confused, no trainers being played on your first turn, even the very meaning of what a "trainer" is. All these things are what keeps the card game fresh, but still keeps the game fun for people who aren't competitive.
Who knows, perhaps we will have a "Night Maintenance" for the Lost Zone in future sets. It's all part of the path of new ideas.
Think about it.
Though I have never played YGO, I know that it has... strange game principles. My parents won't let me play it because it is too "dark". That is fine with me. Pokemon has always been a fun game thats way different. Pokemon games is the SOTG, and almost all people who play the TCG have this, from the person that goes 0-4 at his very first Battle Roads to the World Champion. And though cards may seem different in a way, there
But the Lost Zone is based off the Torn World in Platinum, which is a different dimension. That is unique to Pokemon, and it is not turning into YGO or MTG. One thing that seperates Pokemon from all these other were a lot of new concepts introduced through out the TCG, such as Owner's Pokemon, Pokemon Crystal, Pokemon EX, Pokemon *, Pokemon Lv.X, and now Pokemon G. There were also new concepts introduced to the TCG, such as "baby evolution", faster set up with Rare Candy, Special Metal Energy, Special Dark Energy, Supporter cards, Stadium cards, Pokemon Tools, and TMs. Then there were a lot of rules being changed, such as not having to flip for retreating when confused, no trainers being played on your first turn, even the very meaning of what a "trainer" is. All these things are what keeps the card game fresh, but still keeps the game fun for people who aren't competitive.
Who knows, perhaps we will have a "Night Maintenance" for the Lost Zone in future sets. It's all part of the path of new ideas.
abaxter94 said:
Sorry, I can't help but laugh at that. No offense but...oh dear.
Anyway, if it was truly Yugioh, there would be a lot more things that need to be added. Yugioh rides on completely different gameplay mechanics. Mechanics that are fine in its own way. Pokemon may have taken a page from Yugioh with that Lost Zone thing, but in the end, its more like Magic the Gathering - The granddaddy of all TCG's. As long as it won't become easy to get cards from the Lost Zone to the hand/field, I'm fine.
Lou Cypher said:
Well, I got into the Pokemon TCG when I was about Eight. Nothing competitive, just liked playing with my brother. Being involved in the TCG, naturaly I found out about YGO and MTG. I asked my parents if I could get some cards, but after they looked at them, they didn't want their little kid exposed to something that was, well, kind of "dark" to them. I mean look at it from a parents perspective. Pokemon offers "creatures" that have a bond with their trainer and obey them because of that bond. It has "trainers" to help you in your quest, and it has "energy cards" to help your pokemon fight. YGO gives your children "monsters" and "magicians", with "trap" and "magic" cards that help you. If you wanted your child to have a fun game that would be a positive influence on your kid, which would you pick?
I'm sure now that I'm 14 if I really wanted to get involved in YGO I could, but I don't. The game doesn't really offer the apeal the Pokemon does.
Honestly, this game becomes more and more like YGO. I'm waiting for the day I hear, "I play monster reborn to bring back Kingdra!" at worlds.
^It's called revive and it has been around since before yugioh. :/ Anyways, jeeze, its not an "OMG" mechanic. Look at the pokes that do it. Garnitina is laughable, his X is utterly insane without the effect, dialgia needs flips and 2 shots everything (and only removes energy. big deal), and palkia is easy to play around. The effect may seem horrible, but it only matters early game, and I'm pretty sure this won't be a huge deal anyways.
