Standard Lucario EX / Crobat

[AuraStormLucario]

After leaving the game when XY came out, I've finally returned to competitive pokemon tcg, and began learning about the new metagame in whatever way I can. I've been looking for a deck to run for a while now, and I fell in love with the lucario crobat archetype. I found this particular list online, but then made a few modifications myself. From the videos I have watched about this deck, and previous experience playing pokemon tcg semi-competitively, I understand the strategy of this deck, how the goal is to use lucario and hawlucha as main attackers, and use the decks various methods of support to hit hard and fast. However, I still don't know if this deck will be good enough on a competitive scale, and what changes I need to make, (maybe adding N over professor birch's observations). Anyway, absolutely any feedback or help or anything for that matter would be super greatly appreciated, and thank you so much in advance! Now, onto the deck itself:

Pokémon: 17

• 3 Lucario EX
• 2 Hawlucha FIF
• 3 Crobat PHF
• 3 Golbat PHF
• 4 Zubat PHF
• 2 Shaymin EX

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums: 34

• 4 Professor Sycamore
• 3 Korina
• 2 Lysandre
• 1 N (used to be 1 Professor Birch's Observations)
• 1 AZ

• 4 Ultra Ball
• 4 VS Seeker
  
• 3 Super Scoop Up
• 3 Fighting Fury Belt (used to be 3 Muscle Band)
• 2 Focus Sash
• 2 Switch
• 1 Professor's Letter
• 1 Enhanced Hammer

• 3 Fighting Stadium

Energy: 9

• 5 Fighting Energy
• 4 Strong Energy

 

[PieNappl3]

N would definitively be a good choice over birch as it allowed you to set your opponent back if they get å head start over you

 

[AuraStormLucario]

N would definitively be a good choice over birch as it allowed you to set your opponent back if they get å head start over you

Thanks, I agree too, I'll try it out. What about things like fighting fury belt, miltank, and the new fighting pokemon in the set just released?

 

[wolfhavoc]

I like Zygarde over Lucario for a few reasons:
1. You are very likely to have a stadium on the field so for one energy you can do 40 damage, 60 with strong energy, 80 with muscle band and everything before, and 100 if you are facing an EX and your Stadium is Fighting Stadium.
2. You have 190HP, the second highest of any non mega EX, add a Fighting Fury Belt and he has 230 HP which is higher or equal to most mega.
3. Your second attack has healing factor, since you have Shaymin to draw, you don't need Lucario's second attack to draw.

 

[Wobawoba21]

Yeah I'd say 2 zygarde and keep one Lucario to have another option if your facing a grass deck

 

[PokeDad5]

I still like Lucario right now because of the Meta. Yes Shaymin give you draw support, but if you get item locked, it then becomes more difficult to search and get those shaymin's out which then makes Lucario's second attack more valuable. I have been wanting to toy with the new develution spray from Fates with Bats. To be able to de-evolve one of the bats to throw it on another seems like you can spam bats more often. I also am not sure about the muscle band choice, it's not like you're going to OHKO pokemon with Lucario, plus with bats it should be easier to get KO's without muscle bands. I'd also consider changing those switch out. Other than Shaymin and lucario, your bats and hawlucha's have free retreat, so it seems like waste to me. I'd also play test Carbink over hawlucha now. Yes Hawlucha is great because of free retreat, 1 energy and can hit for up to 100 dmg with strong energy and fighting stadium in play, but it can only attack EX's. Id try the new Carbink just to give you the safeguard ability. It'll still swing for 100 dmg with 2 strong energy and stadium in play, but EX's can't dmg it without use of Hex. Just my few cents.

 

[AuraStormLucario]

Honestly, I dont know if I'd switch Lucario to Zygarde, but it is certainly a viable option, however I think I'll test Lucario bats out first before trying it with Zygarde (personal preference). Although, Zygarde is pretty amazing, (for the reasons stated above by wolfhavoc, and probably a few more), and I wanna try it out as well, or possibly a combination of Zygarde and Lucario, like Wobawoba21 said.

I still like Lucario right now because of the Meta. Yes Shaymin give you draw support, but if you get item locked, it then becomes more difficult to search and get those shaymin's out which then makes Lucario's second attack more valuable. I have been wanting to toy with the new devolution spray from Fates with Bats. To be able to de-evolve one of the bats to throw it on another seems like you can spam bats more often. I also am not sure about the muscle band choice, it's not like you're going to OHKO pokemon with Lucario, plus with bats it should be easier to get KO's without muscle bands. I'd also consider changing those switch out. Other than Shaymin and lucario, your bats and hawlucha's have free retreat, so it seems like waste to me. I'd also play test Carbink over hawlucha now. Yes Hawlucha is great because of free retreat, 1 energy and can hit for up to 100 dmg with strong energy and fighting stadium in play, but it can only attack EX's. Id try the new Carbink just to give you the safeguard ability. It'll still swing for 100 dmg with 2 strong energy and stadium in play, but EX's can't dmg it without use of Hex. Just my few cents.

Well, Muscle bands are an extra 20 damage, most of the time they'll always be useful somehow, I dont know what I would switch them out for though. As for the 2 switch cards, (possibly the professor's letter and enhanced hammer too, although they are useful sometimes, and can be searched for by korina), I don't know what I could replace them with, and what substitutions would be most beneficial for my deck. (thanks for the input from all three of you, it was really helpful!)

Cards im thinking could fit in here are (in no particular order): zygarde, carbink, devolution spray, xerosic, fighting fury belt, super rod, bridgette). I dont know how good each of these cards (if any) would be as a replacement for anything in my deck, but I think they all are somewhat viable.

 

[PokeDad5]

Zygarde and Lucario should never be in a DL together. Too much energy for both in a DL and 2 different plays with both of them. Anymore, I almost always run FFB over MB just because of the extra HP that prevent a lot of OHKO's. Like I said before, 20 extra dmg on Lucario doesnt add up mathematically to an advantage anywhere.

 

[AuraStormLucario]

Zygarde and Lucario should never be in a DL together. Too much energy for both in a DL and 2 different plays with both of them. Anymore, I almost always run FFB over MB just because of the extra HP that prevent a lot of OHKO's. Like I said before, 20 extra dmg on Lucario doesnt add up mathematically to an advantage anywhere.

Yeah thats true, although fighting fury belt cant be used on crobat / golbat, unlike muscle band, but you're right, that is basically the only con. So, should i run 3 fighting fury belts, or just 2, (what about focus sashes as well). Honestly, I dont know what to do with the item line-up I have. From what I'm thinking just now, maybe:

- 3 Muscle Band
- 2 Focus Sash
+3 Fighting Fury Belt
+1 N
+1 (something else)

 

[dbussert]

I still like Lucario right now because of the Meta. Yes Shaymin give you draw support, but if you get item locked, it then becomes more difficult to search and get those shaymin's out which then makes Lucario's second attack more valuable.

Lucario's Psychic weakness is such a liability he see's almost no play. If you're getting item locked it's probably Trev or Toad, and Trev is going to 2HKO Lucario with tree slam, the same problem M Mewtwo has. And if you're item locked you might draw 6 cards on a spinning kick, but good luck playing them, and a Shaymin isn't going to draw anything with a full hand. In Expanded Landorus is a better choice, and in Standard, unless Serperior does well, there isn't Leaf attackers to worry about other than Vespiqueen/Vileplume.

 

[AuraStormLucario]

Lucario's Psychic weakness is such a liability he see's almost no play. If you're getting item locked it's probably Trev or Toad, and Trev is going to 2HKO Lucario with tree slam, the same problem M Mewtwo has. And if you're item locked you might draw 6 cards on a spinning kick, but good luck playing them, and a Shaymin isn't going to draw anything with a full hand. In Expanded Landorus is a better choice, and in Standard, unless Serperior does well, there isn't Leaf attackers to worry about other than Vespiqueen/Vileplume.

Is there anything I could maybe tech to help with the Trevenant matchup,

 

[dbussert]

Is there anything I could maybe tech to help with the Trevenant matchup,

a 190HP Zygarde that heals itself is going to be brutal on Trev, a single Zygarde in your Active can probably win against Trev. It's a 3HKO vs Trev Break, but he'll keep healing himself and keep from getting finished off by Wobbafett. And if you can break the item lock with a Hex and get power memory, you can 1HKO Trev Break. A Zygarde with 2 Regirock or any strong energy on the bench can 2KHO Trev. With Zygarde being good against NM and Trev I think we're going to see a ton of play for him. He can be 230HP with a FFB or a 200 damage OHKO or focus sash, a lot of versatility in Fighting now.

 

[AuraStormLucario]

a 190HP Zygarde that heals itself is going to be brutal on Trev, a single Zygarde in your Active can probably win against Trev. It's a 3HKO vs Trev Break, but he'll keep healing himself and keep from getting finished off by Wobbafett. And if you can break the item lock with a Hex and get power memory, you can 1HKO Trev Break. A Zygarde with 2 Regirock or any strong energy on the bench can 2KHO Trev. With Zygarde being good against NM and Trev I think we're going to see a ton of play for him. He can be 230HP with a FFB or a 200 damage OHKO or focus sash, a lot of versatility in Fighting now.

I could consider running Zygarde as a tech, although idk how well it would work out. Nonetheless, would replacing the 3 muscle bands with fighting fury belts be a good decision? (maybe finding a way to add another N would be nice too)

 

[dbussert]

I could consider running Zygarde as a tech, although idk how well it would work out. Nonetheless, would replacing the 3 muscle bands with fighting fury belts be a good decision? (maybe finding a way to add another N would be nice too)

There's very few decks are running Muscle Band anymore, the only reason anyone would use it is because you don't have a basic

 

[AuraStormLucario]

There's very few decks are running Muscle Band anymore, the only reason anyone would use it is because you don't have a basic

Such as crobat, although since its not the main attacker, i dont think it really would be worth it. I'll try
-3 Muscle Band
+3 Fighting Fury Belt

 

[dbussert]

a 190HP Zygarde that heals itself is going to be brutal on Trev, a single Zygarde in your Active can probably win against Trev. It's a 3HKO vs Trev Break, but he'll keep healing himself and keep from getting finished off by Wobbafett. And if you can break the item lock with a Hex and get power memory, you can 1HKO Trev Break. A Zygarde with 2 Regirock or any strong energy on the bench can 2KHO Trev. With Zygarde being good against NM and Trev I think we're going to see a ton of play for him. He can be 230HP with a FFB or a 200 damage OHKO or focus sash, a lot of versatility in Fighting now.

I played against Trev and did not realize until then that ghost types have Fighting Resistence, so its a 3HKO, and if you're playing Shaymin's they can get picked off

 

[AuraStormLucario]

Lastly, what would be good to take out for another draw supporter like N, and is my current item lineup (3 fighting fury belts, 2 focus sashes) a good one?

 

[dbussert]

Lastly, what would be good to take out for another draw supporter like N, and is my current item lineup (3 fighting fury belts, 2 focus sashes) a good one?

I think you can swap a Sycamore for N. With fighting decks I find myself almost always using Korrina anyways.

 

[WastedSkyPirate]

Zygarde and Lucario should never be in a DL together. Too much energy for both in a DL and 2 different plays with both of them.

Wait... Zygarde-EX and Lucario-EX should never be in the same deck list together?

I disagree.

As @Wobawoba21 alluded to, running a split line of Zygarde-EX and Lucario-EX is advantageous as they have different weaknesses and the same basic functions (Fighting Type, low energy attacks with decent effects). This makes the two of them very compatible and gives the player options depending on the matchup (against Night March, don't put down Lucario-EX; against Grass, don't put down Zygarde-EX). Furthermore, it's easy to search out the one that you need thanks to Korrina.

Running a 3 or 4 of each is overkill but a combination that doesn't add up to over 4 is probably about right. Your preference of main attacker depends on the metagame. With Trevenant and Night March being so popular at the moment, I'd argue that Zygarde-EX is the better choice. However, you could equally argue that Vespiquen/Vileplume makes Lucario-EX the better choice.

@AuraStormLucario I would go for a 2-1 split depending on your preference. Going by your username, I'd guess that's Lucario!

 

[PokeDad5]

I still think by splitting, while although I do agree with your points on matchups, you're going to get too heavy on pokemon. 2-1 I think is a pointless lineup just for the fact that if you're using it based on matchups and the one or 2 you need is prized, your strategy failed.