Standard Lucario/Zoroark for Regionals

[RoboSensei]

Hey guys. I'm hitting up Portland Regionals as my first major event since 2012 after picking up the game competitively about a year ago. I'm pretty sold on Lucario-GX/Zoroark-GX for the event and would like some feedback before the big weekend. (I'm also considering Dusk Mane/Zoroark/Magnezone and Ho-Oh)

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 18

* 4 Zorua PR-SM SM83
* 4 Zoroark-GX SLG 77
* 3 Riolu UPR 66
* 2 Lucario-GX PR-SM SM100
* 1 Tapu Koko PR-SM SM31
* 1 Mewtwo EVO 51
* 3 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60

##Trainer Cards - 34

* 1 Professor Sycamore STS 114
* 1 Rescue Stretcher BUS 165
* 2 Acerola BUS 142
* 2 Choice Band GRI 121
* 4 Ultra Ball FLF 99
* 4 Puzzle of Time BKP 109
* 2 Evosoda XY 116
* 3 Cynthia UPR 119
* 3 N NVI 92
* 4 Guzma BUS 143
* 3 Brigette BKT 161
* 1 Parallel City BKT 145
* 1 Mallow GRI 145
* 3 Field Blower GRI 125

##Energy - 8

* 4 Double Colorless Energy GRI 166
* 2 Strong Energy FCO 115
* 2 Fighting Energy 6

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

Cards I'm considering:

>Mew-EX - For easier 1-shots on Buzzwoles and other Lucarios, but having only 120 HP and the chances of starting with it seem like too much of a liability sometimes
>Energy Loto - Sometimes I just completely and utterly whiff every energy card within the top 30 cards of my deck, or maybe need that last strong for game and whiff it after the Sycamore
>Giratina Promo - Because of my undying hatred of Greninja
>Basic Fighting Energy - In case they flip over a lone Xurkitree and my only win condition is to deck them out before they deck me out
>Special Charge - Because I've ran into decks that play 3-4 Enhanced Hammer lately...
>Multi Switch - Again, for energy whiffing scenarios, or need to move an extra Strong onto Lucario to hit that crucial extra 20
>Pal Pad - I could cut down the Acerola count to 2 with this, helps to reuse Mallow and recycle Supporters I may have been forced to discard in the early game such as Guzma and Cynthia
>Super Scoop Up - For Lucario purposes

My worst matchups are Glaceon variants and Lycanroc. I have nothing to 1-shot either of them and Glaceon is just annoying to the point that I can't do literally anything. So any way I can fight Glaceon better would help immensely, as I unfortunately predict it'll be a popular play at the event.

I am also having a hard time against Sylveon

 

[F4H_Jay]

I think you could go without Breakthrough zoroark and add another sycamore just for some consistency.

Mew is nice, but if your playing mewtwo its just as good a counter for buzzwole, but its like you mentioned, mew can once shot lucario as long as you have a full bench and a zoroark gx on your board.

 

[RoboSensei]

I think you could go without Breakthrough zoroark and add another sycamore just for some consistency.

Mew is nice, but if your playing mewtwo its just as good a counter for buzzwole, but its like you mentioned, mew can once shot lucario as long as you have a full bench and a zoroark gx on your board.

For now I really think I need that non-gx zoroark, it's helped a lot in turns where I don't want to promote a 2 prize attacker, and can hit 190 with a choice band vs a full bench. I really have no effective ways of dealing with Hoopa. Mewtwo 2-shots it if it has 3 energy attached, provided they don't have fighting fury belt, max potion or acerola. In many situations, leaving the zoroark in the active after swinging with mind jack has helped me out more than promoting a gx and hitting with riotous beating would have.

 

[maximusrtc]

You can two shot a hoopa with a riolu + strong energy. Also in my testing acerola has been underwhelming. My opponent almost never swings into Lucario unless they’re one hit KO’ing, and if they do hit for 100-120, you’ll probably want to respond with the GX attack. So I play 2 acerola, 4 guzma & no pal pad.

I like including a Tapu Koko promo, gives you a free retreater and 1-2 flying flips can put everything in range of a OHKO from a Lucario.

 

[RoboSensei]

You can two shot a hoopa with a riolu + strong energy. Also in my testing acerola has been underwhelming. My opponent almost never swings into Lucario unless they’re one hit KO’ing, and if they do hit for 100-120, you’ll probably want to respond with the GX attack. So I play 2 acerola, 4 guzma & no pal pad.

I like including a Tapu Koko promo, gives you a free retreater and 1-2 flying flips can put everything in range of a OHKO from a Lucario.

That sounds good.
I've taken out the 3rd Acerola for the 4th Guzma.
What should I drop for the Tapu Koko? I'm considering perhaps the 4th Riou?

 

[maximusrtc]

Yeah I’d go 3-3 or 3-2 for the Lucario line. The article on the main page today has a pretty good list, it also recommends using a regirock ex but I struggle to find the bench space for it (it’s also an easy two prizes against zoropod). Helps hit some key numbers though

 

[RoboSensei]

Yeah I’d go 3-3 or 3-2 for the Lucario line. The article on the main page today has a pretty good list, it also recommends using a regirock ex but I struggle to find the bench space for it (it’s also an easy two prizes against zoropod). Helps hit some key numbers though

Oddly enough there's a lot on that list that I wasn't fond of, and is the reason why I didn't look in to changing my list to be more like it. I think 3-2 Lucario is suboptimal but we'll just have to see how it goes.

 

[Eltyr]

Buzzwole now runs a lot with Garbodor so Mew isn't really gonna help you there with only 2 field blowers.

 

[AFEX]

I don't care what you need to get rid of, 4 Acerola is a must.
Add 1 more Lucario.
Maybe tech Buzzwole.
Go down 1 Lele just so you don't have a giant reliability.
Add 2-3 Devolution Spray.
Get rid of Koko Promo.

I've played this deck, and from my standpoint these have worked REALLLLY well.

 

[Chicken Nugget Master]

I don't care what you need to get rid of, 4 Acerola is a must.
Add 1 more Lucario.
Maybe tech Buzzwole.
Go down 1 Lele just so you don't have a giant reliability.
Add 2-3 Devolution Spray.
Get rid of Koko Promo.

I've played this deck, and from my standpoint these have worked REALLLLY well.

In what Distortion World is 4 Acerola ever a must?!?!? 2 Acerola, maximum. You can always puzzle them back if you need them more but 4 is just Trade fodder.
A 3-2 Line is the most optimal way to play it (3 Lucario is too much and they will just take up bench space that could be better used)
Buzzwole is a 2 Prize liability that is inferior to Tapu Koko.
Devolution Spray (or scoop up for that matter) is too clunky and you won't use it.

Ive been playing Lucario for easily 2 months (proxy testing in case you were curious how I got it before it was released) and I am certain that the way you play it @AFEX isn't the best option. Not to say that your version doesn't work (you are clearly an experienced player who knows what they are doing and I give you a lot of credit for that) but I'm still not convinced by it. I hope this doesn't sound offensive, as that is the last thing I want to do.

 

[Eltyr]

In what Distortion World is 4 Acerola ever a must?!?!? 2 Acerola, maximum. You can always puzzle them back if you need them more but 4 is just Trade fodder.
A 3-2 Line is the most optimal way to play it (3 Lucario is too much and they will just take up bench space that could be better used)
Buzzwole is a 2 Prize liability that is inferior to Tapu Koko.
Devolution Spray (or scoop up for that matter) is too clunky and you won't use it.

Ive been playing Lucario for easily 2 months (proxy testing in case you were curious how I got it before it was released) and I am certain that the way you play it @AFEX isn't the best option. Not to say that your version doesn't work (you are clearly an experienced player who knows what they are doing and I give you a lot of credit for that) but I'm still not convinced by it. I hope this doesn't sound offensive, as that is the last thing I want to do.

Buzzwole shuts down Zoroark decks even more and gets the numbers straight for Lucario's KOs, like on Lycanroc, and if it has Vigor Energy or Choice Band on even on 210 hp Pokémons.

 

[gumball51321]

Mind Jack is bad and the deck needs 2 Evosoda. Definitely make that change. TBH, the deck only plays Parallel City as a counter for other Parallel City, and Garb is picking up a lot of play, so you could probably drop to 1 Parallel and up your Field Blower count to 3, but I'll let you leave that to personal preference and testing.
But do drop Mind Jack for a 2nd Evosoda. At worst you Trade it away and have a more flexable card in the list.

 

[gumball51321]

In regards to cards you're considering, the only ones the deck should play are basic Fighting for the exact reason you gave, plus there's a condition for Zoroark to attack, and Energy Lotto because again, your reasoning is justified. Lucario beats Greninja, you can Puzzle or Trade into Supporters, your attackers can attack for manual attachments easily, so Multi Switch would be a waste. Scoop Up requires too much space dedication, BuzzRoc plays Oricorio for Mew-EX, BuzzGarb shuts Mew off, and Special Charge isn't really good or bad. You can Puzzle for Energy if you need it, but it's also nice to have. But the deck needs space, and I would say that it's minimal priority, but there is a good enough reason to play it.

 

[biffthepotato]

Play Mew EX instead of mewtwo. Trust me, it makes Buzzwole a lot easier to deal with, ecspecially in a Zoroark deck.

 

[gumball51321]

Play Mew EX instead of mewtwo. Trust me, it makes Buzzwole a lot easier to deal with, ecspecially in a Zoroark deck.

Mew doesn't do much against Buzzwole, trust me, I know as a Buzzwole player. I just revenge KO for 2 prizes and you're back where you started. And like I said, Garb shuts it off, and Buzzwole Lycanroc plays Oricorio, since with a Choice Band and a stadium in play, it OHKOs Mew-EX, for two prize cards. Buzzwole easily gets past Mew, so it defeats the point of having it as a tech. Mewtwo is a 1 prizer that KOs a fully set up Buzzwole and forces your opponent to Knuckle Impact for a knockout for only 1 prize or it puts in huge chip damage again. If anything, the Mew-EX is for Lucario-GX, in which case it again gets OHKO'd by Zoroark or a freshly evolved Lucario. Plus it's just another unfavorable starting Pokemon.

 

[AFEX]

In what Distortion World is 4 Acerola ever a must?!?!? 2 Acerola, maximum. You can always puzzle them back if you need them more but 4 is just Trade fodder.
A 3-2 Line is the most optimal way to play it (3 Lucario is too much and they will just take up bench space that could be better used)
Buzzwole is a 2 Prize liability that is inferior to Tapu Koko.
Devolution Spray (or scoop up for that matter) is too clunky and you won't use it.

Ive been playing Lucario for easily 2 months (proxy testing in case you were curious how I got it before it was released) and I am certain that the way you play it @AFEX isn't the best option. Not to say that your version doesn't work (you are clearly an experienced player who knows what they are doing and I give you a lot of credit for that) but I'm still not convinced by it. I hope this doesn't sound offensive, as that is the last thing I want to do.

I was simply sharing my personal testing experience ive been toying with this deck almost as long as you, thats whats consistently worked for me, had no consistency probs, period.

 

[gumball51321]

I was simply sharing my personal testing experience ive been toying with this deck almost as long as you, thats whats consistently worked for me, had no consistency probs, period.

No, I totally see use for 4 Acerola. It's not needed, but it's not a bad idea. Loop Lucarios easier and more frequently while denying prizes. I wouldn't pwersonally play more than 2, but I can totally justify 4.

 

[Chicken Nugget Master]

I was simply sharing my personal testing experience ive been toying with this deck almost as long as you, thats whats consistently worked for me, had no consistency probs, period.

I can see how it works and I am not saying it isn't good, but I think your deck and mine are two different versions of the same deck, much like Gardevoir GX with 4 Max Potion, and Gardevoir GX without Max Potion. I was very influenced by Caleb's article so that is how I built my deck, and I imagine you built yours with influence from Mahone's stream? Either way, they both work well.

 

[Eltyr]

Mind Jack is bad and the deck needs 2 Evosoda. Definitely make that change. TBH, the deck only plays Parallel City as a counter for other Parallel City, and Garb is picking up a lot of play, so you could probably drop to 1 Parallel and up your Field Blower count to 3, but I'll let you leave that to personal preference and testing.
But do drop Mind Jack for a 2nd Evosoda. At worst you Trade it away and have a more flexable card in the list.

You can't play a Parallel City on your opponent's City.

 

[F4H_Jay]

Mew ex is the preferred tech IMO, yes buzzwole can revenge kill it, but then your opponent more times then not gets stuck have to set up another buzzwole.