Discussion Lugia-EX vs Yveltal-EX

C

cookie1117

Aspiring Trainer
Member
so me and a couple of friends were debating about whether lugia ex can match up to yveltal ex because of the first attack having a few similarities. here are my views

lugia ex

• if attacking first can hit straight away for a double colorless and with FFB, can hit for 50.
so essentially is one turn faster than yveltal who attacks for dark and colorless unless they play max elixir energy switch variant. which changes deck completely.

•second attack is quite situational as sometimes discarding a stadium can actually damage your out come. whilst hitting 150 and 160 with FFB and the potential 180 with giovannis most mons will be knocked out.

the argument is that a opposing player can just not play stadiums, however with some very powerful stadiums such as parallel city, silent lab, rough seas, forest of giant plants, which some decks rely on to be more effective it's almost impossible to not play one.

In addition to this I also think lugia decks can afford to play 1-2 extra stadiums that feed ammunition to lugias attack if your opponent feels like not playing them.

• I feel as though lugia is its own deck. various decks have him as a secondary attacker but I believe this to be the wrong approach.

because of lugia having colorless attacks it's about analysing the best support around lugia and what typing gives him a strong approach into games.

For example I have been play testing a steel variant with max elixir, enhanced hammer, cobalion, jirachi, magerna a raticate line and Garbodor, and it's been running nicely.

but this is just one of many examples. personally lugia and electric energy with jolteon would be a pretty solid call in this meta.

what do you guys think??
 
The biggest difference between Lugia-EX and Yveltal-EX is that Yveltal will always, at minimum, do 60 damage on its attack compared to Lugia's 40 damage. 20 extra damage may not seem like much in retrospect, but it really is, especially in this game. Also, keep in mind that Yveltal EX will always partner better with other Dark Pokemon because of that extra 20 damage factor (or in the case of Yveltal/Garbodor, it'll always be a better standalone Pokemon than Lugia).

That said, as you pointed out, Lugia-EX does two very specific things that I've given a lot of thought to for a while now.
1. It allows you to play through decks like Walls with things like Magearna-EX, which is rather nice. Plus, since M Audino-EX was a "thing", I have always been a firm believer that Normal + Steel is a good combination in this Meta.
2. Being able to KO Pokemon with Deep Hurricane and discarding an opposing Stadium is very, VERY good right now.

Personally, I think the card can work out. Heck, you can probably tech it in to things like M Scizor-EX as a 1 or 2-of and be fine (especially considering M Szicor is so energy efficient), though I will say be aware that the acceleration as a whole may be in conflict with consistency considering M Scizor is a Mega and the deck doesn't need Max Elixir to function properly.

As far as a standalone, I still will argue in favor of Yveltal, however. After all, if the report I just read is any accurate, 5 Yveltal/Garbodor decks made Top 8 at London. That should say something about how powerful the card/strategy is as a whole.

Hopefully this helps!

-Asmer
 
Thanks Asmer.

I'm just interested to see what others think as I personally really like the card. But as you say the +20 is very superior at the moment.

I was hoping someone would mention results from London. But as I said a lugia lighting combo would of been huge.
 
The biggest factor is Lugia EX can attack with a DCE the turn it comes into play and its also a very splashble and because of that, it can use any support in the game it wants. Its second attack can also just steal games.

It reality, its hard to say which one is better since they both punish energy drop but for me, Lugia EX will always be just one turn faster.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
The biggest factor is Lugia EX can attack with a DCE the turn it comes into play and its also a very splashble and because of that, it can use any support in the game it wants. Its second attack can also just steal games.

It reality, its hard to say which one is better since they both punish energy drop but for me, Lugia EX will always be just one turn faster.
Click to expand...

Aye. This is a very good point as well. That said, you would have to consistency compare a lot of numbers to determine which is a better choice overall (4 Lugia-EX vs 4 Yveltal-EX calculating the chances of drawing a DCE on a theoretical attacking turn and we'll say you go second for the sake of numbers, also calculating the chances of 1-4 DCE being prized alongside what you're running for draw and... jeez, why are there so many numbers in PTCG??), but I will say that the ability to attack early and, at least in my opinion, Deep Hurricane, makes me desire Lugia-EX much more as a whole. That, and I really do like playing powerful splashes in decks. I feel like structured decks take away from the fun of the game, even at a competitive level.

...Ignore the fact that I am currently playing Greninja BREAK.

Ribbit.

-Asmer
 
It's good to see people contributing to this thread. I was looking forward to see what people had to say.

I think with lugia aswell. is if prepared by the right player and relevant techs placed in you can approach tournaments with so much flexibility.

eg if you know there is going to be lots of dark then you can make a jolteon lugia deck.

but yveltal is purely dark because of the energy commitment.

I think
 
I'm aiming more towards standard with this convo. but yes dark patch makes yveltal already more ridiculously powerful.
 
In addition to the plus 20 on evil ball, the energy conservation from y cyclone is a big factor, it can pass an energy backward while taking a knockout. This is momentum that Lugia cannot provide you one on one.

The deep hurricane attack, while being powerful in its own right, is more or less inefficient, requires a stadium, and misses the one-shot numbers on basic EXs anyway.
 
LightningCloud224 said:
In addition to the plus 20 on evil ball, the energy conservation from y cyclone is a big factor, it can pass an energy backward while taking a knockout. This is momentum that Lugia cannot provide you one on one.

The deep hurricane attack, while being powerful in its own right, is more or less inefficient, requires a stadium, and misses the one-shot numbers on basic EXs anyway.
Click to expand...

I typically think of Deep Hurricane as a secondary, conditional attack instead of something that is in need of a set up (a utility attack essentially), but oh man I didn't even consider how good Y Cyclone can be. That actually changes my opinion a lot, especially if you can start setting up another Yveltal-EX on the bench.

-Asmer
 
Yes y cyclone is an amazing attack and I suppose this is purely what puts yveltal in front. it's clearly a dominate mon of this current meta because it's winning tournaments.

hopefully London would of established a true master deck. and now decks can fit in around it to try and counter it.
 
cookie1117 said:
Yes y cyclone is an amazing attack and I suppose this is purely what puts yveltal in front. it's clearly a dominate mon of this current meta because it's winning tournaments.

hopefully London would of established a true master deck. and now decks can fit in around it to try and counter it.
Click to expand...
Well, from what my friend told me, Top 4 was all Yveltal Garbodor mirror matches. If that doesn't tell us Yveltal-EX/Garbodor is the best deck right now, I don't know what will.

-Asmer
 
On top of all those pros of Yveltal in standard, no one has mentioned that electric has literally zero reliable attackers in standard. Best hope one has is Jolteon ex (2-shots Yveltal ex and ranger nerfs), raichu (parallel city), zebstrika (only does 50 damage most of the time) and raikou (ability reliant).
The only way to truly beat Yveltal is to one shot Yveltal with a non-ex not relying on abilities. That deck was night March.
 
LightningCloud224 said:
On top of all those pros of Yveltal in standard, no one has mentioned that electric has literally zero reliable attackers in standard. Best hope one has is Jolteon ex (2-shots Yveltal ex and ranger nerfs), raichu (parallel city), zebstrika (only does 50 damage most of the time) and raikou (ability reliant).
The only way to truly beat Yveltal is to one shot Yveltal with a non-ex not relying on abilities. That deck was night March.
Click to expand...
I will say, though, that Zebstrika does kill both Yveltal and Lugia-EX when they have FFB, which is something to note. That said, it also does very little otherwise, which is pretty bad.

Still, it does explain why Alex Hill got 9th with Vespiquen/Zebstrika/Garbodor. I've been messing around with my own variant and it's actually very good, even if you don't have many options vs Volcanion and M Scizor EX (still have no idea how you handle either off of their good hands...).

-Asmer
 
Well, in Standard format, nothing is weak to colorless type these days.
Even in expanded, only a few dragons typed as colorless are weak to colorless.

Lugia-EX fits to more decks because of its all-colorless energy requirement
and it could attack on first turn without item support via DCE, so it is faster.
It can be put into play, up to 3 copies, with the supporter card Whitney.
And its 2nd attack Deep Hurricane works great to get rid of pesky stadium cards.

On the other hand, Yveltal-EX has dark type. Ghosts typed as psychic are all weak to dark.
That and it has amazing synergy with both BW and XY incarnations with Darkrai-EX.
In expanded dark types have Dark Patch for energy acceleration and Dark Claw for extra damage.
Y Cyclone is its "swan song" attack, a great one, specially in heavy energy reliant decks.
 
taschen88 said:
Well, in Standard format, nothing is weak to colorless type these days.
Even in expanded, only a few dragons typed as colorless are weak to colorless.

Lugia-EX fits to more decks because of its all-colorless energy requirement
and it could attack on first turn without item support via DCE, so it is faster.
It can be put into play, up to 3 copies, with the supporter card Whitney.
And its 2nd attack Deep Hurricane works great to get rid of pesky stadium cards.

On the other hand, Yveltal-EX has dark type. Ghosts typed as psychic are all weak to dark.
That and it has amazing synergy with both BW and XY incarnations with Darkrai-EX.
In expanded dark types have Dark Patch for energy acceleration and Dark Claw for extra damage.
Y Cyclone is its "swan song" attack, a great one, specially in heavy energy reliant decks.
Click to expand...
Winona gets three colorless Pokémon, not Whitney.. I'd love a full art Whitney though.
Dark claw is completely outclassed by muscle band due to the dark Pokémon restriction and you never need or want more than four muscle band unless you play entei ancient trait.
Deep hurricane is outclassed by delinquent, paint roller and just playing your own stadium card.
Expanded darkrai is a better partner. Standard darkrai does better with dragons.
 
Easily Yveltal-EX. Can hit for weakness on whatever and it does more damage. Lugia does have its powerful second attack but it takes 4 Energy for a possible 150. This doesn't KO much of the meta Pokémon right now, so a cheap attack like Evil Ball that does more damage for less is better especialy in a speed metagame. However I guess you could make a fun deck with both Lugia and Yveltal just so that you can use their special things :D
 
rainyman123 said:
Easily Yveltal-EX. Can hit for weakness on whatever and it does more damage. Lugia does have its powerful second attack but it takes 4 Energy for a possible 150. This doesn't KO much of the meta Pokémon right now, so a cheap attack like Evil Ball that does more damage for less is better especialy in a speed metagame. However I guess you could make a fun deck with both Lugia and Yveltal just so that you can use their special things :D
Click to expand...

Accessibility is a huge factor for decks. Its the largest reason past decks needed to run Mewtwo-EX. Having an attack cost of a DCE is a huge thing. Another perk Lugia-EX has is going second. Lugia-EX has all the momentum in this case and can get off two attacks before Yveltal-EX gets to. Yveltal-EX needs a colored energy to attack and at worst needs two turns to attack whereas you can drop Lugia-EX and attack the same turn with it.

Yveltal-EX having the base 20 damage is nice but I feel over time it will equalize but in terms of speed, Lugia-EX requires less cards to get going and can do something the turn it comes down.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
Accessibility is a huge factor for decks. Its the largest reason past decks needed to run Mewtwo-EX. Having an attack cost of a DCE is a huge thing. Another perk Lugia-EX has is going second. Lugia-EX has all the momentum in this case and can get off two attacks before Yveltal-EX gets two.

so I've been reading your article about pidgeot and have had a few tester games this week with the following deck:

pokemon:
3 lugia ex
2 shaymin ex
1 pidgeot ex
1 magearna ex
2 trubbish
2 garbodor
1 jirachi
1 cobalion
1 rattata
1 raticate
total: 15

trainers

4 sycamore
3 N
2 lysandre
1 olympia
4 vs seeker
4 ultra ball
3 trainers mail
3 max elixir
2 enhanced hammer
1 escape rope
1 super rod
1 special charge
3 parallel city

total 29

energy
9 steel energy
4 DCE

total 13

let us know what you think
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top