Those were a long time ago.
News Lysandre's Trump Card Has Been Banned
- Thread starter PMJ
- Start date
Argueably LTC is a dumb ban...
maybe they realized that the damagoutput they made possible is too much. i mean, some of the meta cards are capable of OHKO yugioh monsters
good im glad its gone
alternate fixes
1 the same card but is removed from game after use
2 a far weaker version of the card that perhaps limits the number of cards you can shuffle into your deck or maybe just all of 1 type like all pokemon or energies so you cant put back vs seekers to reuse
3 go back in time and stop vs seeker from being reprinted
alternate fixes
1 the same card but is removed from game after use
2 a far weaker version of the card that perhaps limits the number of cards you can shuffle into your deck or maybe just all of 1 type like all pokemon or energies so you cant put back vs seekers to reuse
3 go back in time and stop vs seeker from being reprinted
Well, I can see Night March making a huge comeback with this ban, also a YGO-like Banlist would be a bad idea IMHO due to the fact that Pokemon isn't as powerful as YGO is (Compare to Yveltal-EX vs. Five-Headed Dragon). I think the ban is a good idea due to the reason of it making battles last longer than they need too
ok, so what do you want? toads banned cause you want to acro-compressor all day?
How much? Are you in Canada?
It's not like we haven't seen something like this before, the mid season rotation to HGSS-on comes to mind.
That's different, Slowking was dumb because the card was just mistranslated and was able to be abused
On a side note I think it's hilarious how people are acting like this is the end of the world
Namely the thread "How do you build a deck without LTC"
"Is this even possible??"
Um this card has barely been around... decking out has never been an issue before.
Namely the thread "How do you build a deck without LTC"
"Is this even possible??"
Um this card has barely been around... decking out has never been an issue before.
I think it's mainly because people run decks that dig into the deck in order to work. When facing off with a bulky EX Deck, then odds are you're cleaning your deck out much faster than you are doing K.O.s With the format in it's current state, it's very hard not to do that. Too many cards chop the deck down, and the Pokemon running around in the meta are far too bulky and it leads to easy deck-outs without Trump Card because half of the good/useful stuff to replenish the deck from the discard pile have rotated out. As a result, players need to slow down or rely on more item cards in an item-lock heavy format. It can take a well timed item lock to now mess someone up because they were simply playing the game in a format that digs through the deck like no tomorrow.
This is why some people find Lysandre's Trump Card as well...a good Last Resort in case your deck is working faster than you expected it to. However, as it's Japanese name implies - it hasn't been used as a Last Resort, but rather a broken exploitable card. I'm hopeful that Ancient Origins will give us some replenishing methods. As it will definitely come in handy with the loss of Trump Card while still not making the tactic as broken as it could be.
Night March decks no longer have to be worried about their discard piles be shuffled back into their decks... they still have to set up and until now many builds would run their own Lysandre's Trump Card because the most efficient way for them to quickly set up can also leave them nearly decked out. The builds I have had a hard time facing never worry about conserving... they just make sure they've got a Professor Juniper or Professor Sycamore or (if they must) another draw card to get their deck flowing again after being hit by Lysandre's Trump Card. Most lists are very dependent upon Double Colorless Energy and now that is once again exceedingly difficult to get out of the discard pile.
Losing Lysandre's Trump Card from the format strengthens Night March, but it doesn't make them unbeatable.
If you have less cards left in deck than turns you'll need to take your Prizes, you can still deck out and I've seen it happen. That doesn't mean it is a likely thing, but it isn't impossible as you seem to be depicting. What does make it more likely are all the times when Night March experiences a hiccup; they miss a KO or their opponent can stall them.
No.
I didn't say that. At all.
I did state that cards with discard effects like Professor Juniper and Professor Sycamore require less skill when you've got Lysandre's Trump Card in the format. So giving you a huge benefit of the doubt that you simply have terrible reading comprehension, that would mean that even if those two cards do not require much skill to use well, that requirement becomes even less when they have access to something like Lysandre's Trump Card.
If we make this just about preference... guess what? Unless we can clearly establish that a significant majority of players prefer one thing to another then the opinions cancel out which leads us to consider other factors like helping organized play run more efficiently. Avoiding issues with prolonged games still favors banning Lysandre's Trump Card. Still so as not to abandon the original argument, the point I will generously assume you completely missed and perhaps even managed to invert is that even though skill is required to use Lysandre's Trump Card, it deducts from the skill required to use many other cards, including general resource management. The net result is that the increase in skill required to run Lysandre's Trump Card is smaller than the amount of skill lost that used to be required to run several other cards as well as play the game in general.
You can't.
Okay, so you can but it is rather absurd. I pointed out that the notion of altering Lysandre's Trump Card so that it was not easy to re-use ignores that in the decks where it is being abused, said decks could run multiple copies of the card to retain similar functionality. I wasn't saying that four copies is clearly the optimal build for reworking decks around a hypothetical errata-instead-of-banned situation.
Yeah... and if it was really errata'd right they wouldn't want to run it at all! Kind of a moot point; you're telling me that when a=a... a=a. I was pointing out that multiple suggested "fixes" were ignoring the full scope of the problem and so even if they improved things, there would still be problems in addition to the issues created by issuing an errata just to revise a card's effect as opposed to correct an actual error in the text. Of the options that would address the problem, banning is the least convoluted.
You do realize many cards, including the ones you cited, are run maxed out in certain decks. Not all decks, but certain decks and since this debate is about a specific suite of decks: decks abusing Lysandre's Trump Card to rip through themselves, spam "tails fails" Items making their failure almost negligible and then throwing everything that isn't in play or your hand back into your deck so you can repeat the process next turn. Since we are dealing with specifics, pointing out that "some" decks wouldn't be able to have room for four copies doesn't mean that one of the decks we are concerned with would not be able to make room. It would be a tight fit, but I am sure that 1-3 more spaces could be created in your typical Seismitoad-EX lock deck that wishes to spam Item cards.
Except it doesn't solve the issue. It reduces it, but it doesn't actually solve. If it went to the Lost Zone after being played, whether it was two copies, three copies or four copies, the current problem decks would just make do with that amount. The most extreme issues wouldn't be as extreme, but you'd still have someone able to rip through their deck at least once with abandon before finally having to play more conservatively.
I mean if you ran 4 of that card in a deck, you would be taking 3 spots out for 3 LTC, which even though it recycles your deck, takes away 3 important cards from a tight 60 card list.
Except it does! Pokemon banned this card because it wasn't being spammed 2-3 times in a game, but upwards of 5-10 in a game. Just the shuffling alone takes a minute to de-clump your discard.
And ripping through your deck is totally fine with me as long as you can only do it a maximum of 4 times per series, which probably be less considering decks wouldn't run more then 3 LTC.
I guess if you wanted a better version of the card, it could have been an Ace Spec, which is still retrievable, but much harder due to it being a 1-of item in a deck.
Citation please.
Reasons were given in the official announcement and it was not specified how many times was "too much".
Probably longer since if you de-clump you must thoroughly re-shuffle your deck afterwards so that enough randomization occurs that your deck could "reclump". "De-clumping" is basically only legal if it is the equivalent of a good luck ritual because otherwise it is just another form of stacking: instead of making sure a specific card is on top of your deck to your benefit, you make sure certain cards aren't next to each other... for your benefit.
Just because it is "okay with you" doesn't mean it is okay. Some people are "okay" with a person being able to spam Lysandre's Trump Card the 5-10 times you cited earlier. Just capping the amount requires more of a justification. Also unless you've already been thoroughly testing this it is your opinion that people would never run more than three... which had you not taken the stance I would have been comfortable agreeing to (three times is still too many in my book), because if I am so thoroughly doubting you than you're going to need to actually back that statement up with some logic... that I haven't already rejected.
I believe they are doing away with the Ace Spec mechanic.
Hey, just hope y'all are aware, Trevenant (xy) is a good prevention of all of this, as is exeggutor. I barely won a match against eggs, as in by a failed crushing hammer. I was able to retreat my severly wounded toxicroak ex and send in mewtwo ftw.
I agree with the second part, as a person could literally make a never-ending match.
Seeing how we are at the stage of spamming erratas, I would say that LTC needs a more severe cost that just your supporter for the turn. I disagree with Pokemon and basic energy only because you basicly kill Night March decks. Instead, my suggestion would be that it will let your opponent take a prize per use. That way you can still run speed decks, but you had better be able to keep up the prize trade.
Plasma? Plasma is no different, and that was run way before in a very similar format. The only difference is that people knew what to conserve. If anything it makes the field more skilled instead of allowing noobs to come in and wreck (if they have enough money to play), all LTC did was let new players go all wily nilly with their cards.
Couldn't they have made it a rule you can only have 1 Lysandre's Trump Card in a deck?