Finished Mafia 53: Twilight's Kingdom

[Zone Q11]

@Zone Q11 I was talking about friendship competition 1. The one where the people picked the most would be eliminated.
You picked me and then Jabber, Quaking picked Mariano and then you, etc.

Oh. The one where we were supposed to vote the most popular person? ...I just answered your question by the way: I voted for the most popular person.

Build town cred by siding with the guy that's giving info to town. Makes more sense than siding with the guy that's tunneling a bomb claim all game.

Camo tunneled me too. If scum can tunnel a random town, then why would it be impossible for town to tunnel the last scum? ...I feel as if this is Celever-Camoclone bluff claims all over again.

Unless this was NP's doing, it doesn't seem to be anything that the other claimed roles can do. So scum must have done it.

Wasn't it NP's Marking ability? Post #741.

I'm looking back through other scum for clues, and I'd like to point out that this ability from Luis implies that there is another scum with an ability that forces them to perform the nightkill. Mariano literally just claimed to have a kill ability. My vote goes right back.

But again: That would not make sense game mechanics-wise, because if Mariano is scum then we would have two JOATs in the scum faction. No matter how I review it, that would be too OP for scum. That is, unless you are saying that all of Mariano's claims are invalid somehow, which is nearly impossible because he has gotten your safeclaim, which means that he is telling the truth about the Journalist ability.

 

[Keeper of Night]

But again: That would not make sense game mechanics-wise, because if Mariano is scum then we would have two JOATs in the scum faction. No matter how I review it, that would be too OP for scum. That is, unless you are saying that all of Mariano's claims are invalid somehow, which is nearly impossible because he has gotten your safeclaim, which means that he is telling the truth about the Journalist ability.

...? Luis had multiple abilities, even if he wasn't a JOAT, and Camo was only half a JOAT. I see no reason to discount that the last scum wouldn't also be a JOAT of some sort.

And I had to double-check Luis's role to be sure, but he was Applejack and Camo was Rarity (as safe-claims).
Taken from Mariano's claim:

The Cutie Mark Crusaders are a club founded by Rarity's little sister Sweetie Belle, Applejack's little sister Apple Bloom, and their classmate, Scootaloo,

Flavor-only, but both Rarity and Applejack are mentioned by name here as being directly related to two of the characters in the role.

Running on with flavor, Zone's character is in someway (idk exactly how) related to the other princesses (Celestia and Luna, who were both town). Discord is his own thing so that makes sense as an indie, and I am... Whoever I am. The only obscure character in this game. A bad guy turned good. Wow that really doesn't help my case does it? Whatever.

 

[Zone Q11]

...? Luis had multiple abilities, even if he wasn't a JOAT, and Camo was only half a JOAT. I see no reason to discount that the last scum wouldn't also be a JOAT of some sort.

...? *rechecks* Oh. I thought something was wrong. Luis' initial ability isn't a JOAT, but rather becomes one as more town dies. Good thing he was lynched before my reveal. Still, I truly doubt from the bottom of my heart that Mariano is scum.
*reads Mariano's read about Camo in #1051*
...so what? Keeper also thought the same way in #1043 and NP in #1040.
You guys are the reason I changed my vote from Camo to Jabber in the first place.

And I had to double-check Luis's role to be sure, but he was Applejack and Camo was Rarity (as safe-claims).
Taken from Mariano's claim:
Flavor-only, but both Rarity and Applejack are mentioned by name here as being directly related to two of the characters in the role.

Running on with flavor, Zone's character is in someway (idk exactly how) related to the other princesses (Celestia and Luna, who were both town). Discord is his own thing so that makes sense as an indie, and I am... Whoever I am. The only obscure character in this game. A bad guy turned good. Wow that really doesn't help my case does it? Whatever.

Yep: It's not a good idea to use flavor text as an argument.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

What, ask for a full claim? I fully believed the game was over, why would I care about somebody's claim at that point?

Because I was confident that Drac was the last scum, and the emoji was some kind of joke to PMJ due to the happiness I had at that moment, thinking the last scum was lynched.

Great I'm stuck here with two players who if town severely messed up by not planning for a potential town flip.

Zone's cleared one person who actually ended up being clear. Every Farewell ability I've revealed has been proven. We both have cred, you do not.

Uh he's proven all of his other JOAT abilities besides the killing one.

The one where we vote the most popular player? ...Because I'm me?

Oh. The one where we were supposed to vote the most popular person? ...I just answered your question by the way: I voted for the most popular person.

Great I'm also stuck here with two player who if town didn't realize to vote to eliminate your scumreads in a competition where the player with the most votes was eliminated.

 

[Zone Q11]

Great I'm also stuck here with two player who if town didn't realize to vote to eliminate your scumreads in a competition where the player with the most votes was eliminated.

Nope. I know how the game went, but at the time, there was no indication as to who is what, so playing that mini-game normally is the best choice IMO.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Nope. I know how the game went, but at the time, there was no indication as to who is what, so playing that mini-game normally is the best choice IMO.

What you did is OK I guess but voting to eliminate yourself (like Keeper did), who you know is always town, doesn't make sense.

 

[Zone Q11]

What you did is OK I guess but voting to eliminate yourself (like Keeper did), who you know is always town, doesn't make sense.

Well I ain't rooting for Keeper, so he'll have to answer that himself.

 

[Mariano11887]

Since your reason isn't mechanical, guess that means I have to actually consider Zone again welp.
Why snapvote Keeper and not take time to consider this?

Because it was an easy decision between Zone and Keeper. Zone is a lot townier.

Why in the world didn't you ask Keeper to vote you and then swap back to Drac quickly yesterday before you hammered Drac?

And how was I supposed to do that? Just a "hey Keeper, please do you mind voting me for a moment? Thanks."? I would've loved it, but didn't find a way to do it.

Because I honestly thought I was the bomb that PMJ revealed to Jabber. My ability affects whoever killed me negatively. That is the definition of a bomb. I had no idea there would be another one that actually (even if it's a small chance) killed the attacker.

This doesn't fit with what you said several days ago:

If they do kill me then they do it knowing that they'll lose a member

Zone's cleared one person who actually ended up being clear. Every Farewell ability I've revealed has been proven. We both have cred, you do not.
"Everything you said" before was on me being a bomb or not, which was a clear bluff. It happened to be somewhat true, but clearly still a bluff.

It's very probable that your Active Ability truly reads people's Farewell Abilities, but that doesn't mean you are town. Like I said in a previous Day, it's an ability that sounds more benefical for scum than for town because they can consider it to choose their nightkill.
And bluff or not, it ended up being useful because you are not a real bomb.

Not even a single clue what you mean here. I don't even know who my character is.

By "character" I meant "role". Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Build town cred by siding with the guy that's giving info to town. Makes more sense than siding with the guy that's tunneling a bomb claim all game.

Info from Farewell Abilities is more useful to scum than for town. Anyway, this point is becoming useless because we're trying to dig inside Camo's mind.

Wait I want to consider this further. If Mariano honestly thought the game was over then he wouldn't have bothered to try and plan ahead of that.

I was confident that the game was going to end, but not 100% sure. That's why yesterday I claimed my role with the first ability hidden.

And I still want you to re-post your role NP. No hiding anything this time, it's the final day.

I did it here.

I'm looking back through other scum for clues, and I'd like to point out that this ability from Luis implies that there is another scum with an ability that forces them to perform the nightkill. Mariano literally just claimed to have a kill ability. My vote goes right back.

Did you read my first ability? ...

Flavor-only, but both Rarity and Applejack are mentioned by name here as being directly related to two of the characters in the role.

Running on with flavor, Zone's character is in someway (idk exactly how) related to the other princesses (Celestia and Luna, who were both town). Discord is his own thing so that makes sense as an indie, and I am... Whoever I am. The only obscure character in this game. A bad guy turned good. Wow that really doesn't help my case does it? Whatever.

PMJ clearly said that scumhunting using flavor is an error because he intentionally put some good characters in the bad side and vice-versa.

Great I'm stuck here with two players who if town severely messed up by not planning for a potential town flip.

?? I did consider the chance of Drac being town. That's why I didn't reveal my full full role yesterday. An emoji is not an indicator of messing up by not planning.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

"hey Keeper, please do you mind voting me for a moment? Thanks

Yes literally exactly this. Say "I'm a vig who can shoot people who have voted me. Keeper/Zone, can you vote me and unvote so I can get you out of the PoE by vigging you tonight if Drac flips town?"
This is why you didn't plan for a town flip.

Also can everybody make a quick paragraphon why they're a townie this game that doesn't involve their role at all?

 

[Mariano11887]

Yes literally exactly this. Say "I'm a vig who can shoot people who have voted me. Keeper/Zone, can you vote me and unvote so I can get you out of the PoE by vigging you tonight if Drac flips town?"
This is why you didn't plan for a town flip.

Question to Zone and Keeper: Would you have voted and unvoted me if I told you exactly this yesterday? I doubt it...

Also can everybody make a quick paragraphon why they're a townie this game that doesn't involve their role at all?

Do you mean we write about ourselves or someone else? Something like "I'm town because..." or "I think Mr. X is town because..."? Sorry for not understanding.

 

[Zone Q11]

Also can everybody make a quick paragraphon why they're a townie this game that doesn't involve their role at all?

Do you mean we write about ourselves or someone else? Something like "I'm town because..." or "I think Mr. X is town because..."? Sorry for not understanding.

I think NP meant to say why you are town without flavor text. Just say what you've been doing for town so far.
In my case, I am town because I claimed Celever as town and because I have been saying that Camoclone is scum from the moment he attacked me.

Question to Zone and Keeper: Would you have voted and unvoted me if I told you exactly this yesterday? I doubt it...

No, I would not. It feels as if you would have had a hidden agenda were you to say so. Considering the bluffs from Celever and Camoclone, I would have had to force myself to suspect you as "a more plausible scum than GM Drac" had you done that.

 

[Mariano11887]

I think NP meant to say why you are town without flavor text. Just say what you've been doing for town so far.
In my case, I am town because I claimed Celever as town and because I have been saying that Camoclone is scum from the moment he attacked me.

To be honest, you claiming Celever is town doesn't make you townier. You could eaaaasily have done it as scum.

I am town because I've tried to scumhunt during the whole game, except some moments during Day 1 when I was a little short on time due to my wedding. Every ability I used or tried to use was trying to hurt scum and to benefit town the most I could (giving double vote to Celever D1 who was the towniest out there, investigating Keeper to see if he was lying about his claim, blocking Drac who was one of the scummiest players and therefore trying to kill him).
I also pushed Keeper for a long time because the timing of his bomb claim (during Day 1) didn't make sense because he couldn't have used his ability on his own until Night 1. I've never got a logical explanation about it. That was a strong indicator that he could be lying, and people who lie is very plausible to be scum.
Another point that comes to my mind was the case I built against quaking, who was replaced by Camo.

 

[Zone Q11]

To be honest, you claiming Celever is town doesn't make you townier. You could eaaaasily have done it as scum.

My only Abilities are an N0 town-reveal and a one-time Lynchproof. You backed your case with your Abilities, but I can't do much with mine. The only notable action I did with my Ability is choosing Jabber when I had to choose between those two. I had Camo as a thorn on my side too, so my hands were mostly tied back then.

I also pushed Keeper for a long time because the timing of his bomb claim (during Day 1) didn't make sense because he couldn't have used his ability on his own until Night 1. I've never got a logical explanation about it. That was a strong indicator that he could be lying, and people who lie is very plausible to be scum.

Hang on, I thought this was solved? Keeper, mind explaining this again?

 

[PMJ]

It is 3 to lynch. Numbers in parentheses represent the post number of the vote.

Keeper - Mariano (1127) L-2
Mariano - Keeper (1128) Keeper (1140) L-2

Not voting: NP, Zone

It is LyLo. If scum is not lynched today, they will win.

Because it is LyLo, day 6 will only end when a player is lynched by majority; however, I reserve the right to reinstate the timer if I feel like the game has been stalled.

 

[PMJ]

@Keeper of Night
@NinjaPenguin
@Mariano11887
@Zone Q11

 

[Mariano11887]

Hang on, I thought this was solved? Keeper, mind explaining this again?

Nope, it wasn't solved. I just stopped asking it when Keeper was cleared by Jabber.

 

[Keeper of Night]

Because it was an easy decision between Zone and Keeper. Zone is a lot townier.

Nope, can't take yourself out of that bucket so easily. This is between you and me. The fact that you're even throwing Zone out there implies you're okay with either death, because it doesn't matter to you who dies, does it? You win either way so long as you live.

This doesn't fit with what you said several days ago:

I. Was. Lying. I'm really unsure how to make that clearer to you. I've done nothing but repeat that to you for literal days.

It's very probable that your Active Ability truly reads people's Farewell Abilities, but that doesn't mean you are town. Like I said in a previous Day, it's an ability that sounds more benefical for scum than for town because they can consider it to choose their nightkill.
And bluff or not, it ended up being useful because you are not a real bomb.

You're absolutely right it'd be super helpful info just for scum. ...So why the hell would I share every result with town?
Again, I am the very definition of a bomb, even if I don't kill people. Scum killing me would have locked all their abilities and tossed them out of their own QT. Sounds pretty helpful to me.

Info from Farewell Abilities is more useful to scum than for town. Anyway, this point is becoming useless because we're trying to dig inside Camo's mind.

I'd argue it's helpful for both. We have to watch our lynches around Farewell abilities.

I did it here.[/quite]
You are not NP.

Did you read my first ability? ...

What's that have to do with anything? Both other scum, in their safe-claims, had the details of their abilities swapped, but not all of the effects. You have a kill ability. We know another scum has to have a kill ability because of Luis's flip (and Camo didn't).

PMJ clearly said that scumhunting using flavor is an error because he intentionally put some good characters in the bad side and vice-versa.

And I get that. But I have a hard time believing that both other scum were main characters (Applejack and Rarity are within the main cast of friends) and the last scum would be some weird knock-off.
Using this, I think you literally just proved my role too. I'm the only "bad" townie (character having turned bad to good) because every other character is within the main "good" cast.

To be honest, you claiming Celever is town doesn't make you townier. You could eaaaasily have done it as scum.

This is true. But my ability gets pretty close to clearing him.

I am town because I've tried to scumhunt during the whole game, except some moments during Day 1 when I was a little short on time due to my wedding. Every ability I used or tried to use was trying to hurt scum and to benefit town the most I could (giving double vote to Celever D1 who was the towniest out there, investigating Keeper to see if he was lying about his claim, blocking Drac who was one of the scummiest players and therefore trying to kill him).
I also pushed Keeper for a long time because the timing of his bomb claim (during Day 1) didn't make sense because he couldn't have used his ability on his own until Night 1. I've never got a logical explanation about it. That was a strong indicator that he could be lying, and people who lie is very plausible to be scum.
Another point that comes to my mind was the case I built against quaking, who was replaced by Camo.

Your entire angle all game has been on my bomb claim. Most people accepted as being a bluff because it was. I really just cannot spell it out for you any plainer. I claimed to be a bomb, I never was a bomb (the way I claimed it, anyway), but I do happen to affect my killer negatively. Once I learned that I doubled-down. It's simple, really, and the fact that you've ignored it time and time again to continue your tunnel is honestly just annoying.

 

[Keeper of Night]

Frickin' tags.

I did it here.

You are not NP.

Did you read my first ability? ...

What's that have to do with anything? Both other scum, in their safe-claims, had the details of their abilities swapped, but not all of the effects. You have a kill ability. We know another scum has to have a kill ability because of Luis's flip (and Camo didn't).

PMJ clearly said that scumhunting using flavor is an error because he intentionally put some good characters in the bad side and vice-versa.

And I get that. But I have a hard time believing that both other scum were main characters (Applejack and Rarity are within the main cast of friends) and the last scum would be some weird knock-off.Using this, I think you literally just proved my role too. I'm the only "bad" townie (character having turned bad to good) because every other character is within the main "good" cast.

To be honest, you claiming Celever is town doesn't make you townier. You could eaaaasily have done it as scum.

This is true. But my ability gets pretty close to clearing him.

I am town because I've tried to scumhunt during the whole game, except some moments during Day 1 when I was a little short on time due to my wedding. Every ability I used or tried to use was trying to hurt scum and to benefit town the most I could (giving double vote to Celever D1 who was the towniest out there, investigating Keeper to see if he was lying about his claim, blocking Drac who was one of the scummiest players and therefore trying to kill him).I also pushed Keeper for a long time because the timing of his bomb claim (during Day 1) didn't make sense because he couldn't have used his ability on his own until Night 1. I've never got a logical explanation about it. That was a strong indicator that he could be lying, and people who lie is very plausible to be scum.Another point that comes to my mind was the case I built against quaking, who was replaced by Camo.

Your entire angle all game has been on my bomb claim. Most people accepted as being a bluff because it was. I really just cannot spell it out for you any plainer. I claimed to be a bomb, I never was a bomb (the way I claimed it, anyway), but I do happen to affect my killer negatively. Once I learned that I doubled-down. It's simple, really, and the fact that you've ignored it time and time again to continue your tunnel is honestly just annoying.[/quote]

 

[Mariano11887]

Nope, can't take yourself out of that bucket so easily. This is between you and me. The fact that you're even throwing Zone out there implies you're okay with either death, because it doesn't matter to you who dies, does it? You win either way so long as you live.

Of course I'm taking myself out of it, I know who I am!
How does it imply that I'm ok with either lynch? I townread Zone, I don't townread you.

I. Was. Lying. I'm really unsure how to make that clearer to you. I've done nothing but repeat that to you for literal days.

You weren't repeating it for days, it was today when you admitted you were lying.
So my question would be: Why did you lie about it? To avoid scum killing you because you thought you were useful for town? I still think it is too selfish way of thinking to come from a town member, town is a team and it doesn't matter who dies first and who makes it to the end of the game as long as the town wins, because when the town wins, dead townies win too. You knew that your death by nightkill was going to be very positive for the town, but you preferred early claiming a bomb to ensure scum doesn't kill you.
But of course, you only want to survive, scum only wants to survive without thinking in the entire team.

You're absolutely right it'd be super helpful info just for scum. ...So why the hell would I share every result with town?

For a simple reason: because it's not helpful for the town.

I'd argue it's helpful for both. We have to watch our lynches around Farewell abilities.

I don't agree at all. Supposing you are a townie and you truly know the Farewell Ability of a lynch candidate has a negative effect for the town. Are you going to leave him alive despite it's the most scummy player out there? Of course not! If you are convinced a player is scum you can't leave him alive by any means.

You are not NP.

???? Are we referring to the same post? My full claim is on post #1136.

What's that have to do with anything? Both other scum, in their safe-claims, had the details of their abilities swapped, but not all of the effects. You have a kill ability. We know another scum has to have a kill ability because of Luis's flip (and Camo didn't).

You are mixing apples with potatoes. I do have a kill ability, but it has nothing to do with scum's night kill.
For reference, here is Luis' ability:

Active Ability: World's Strongest
Unlocked. The magic of a fallen princess has given you a significant boost in power. Once a game during any night, you may PM me ##OVERPOWER: Player. You will automatically perform the night kill, and you will use your supreme strength to ignore any sort of protection that player has on them. (If another member of the Deadly Alliance uses an ability that forces them to perform the night kill, only the first one submitted will be honored.)

 

[Keeper of Night]

You weren't repeating it for days, it was today when you admitted you were lying.

So my question would be: Why did you lie about it? To avoid scum killing you because you thought you were useful for town? I still think it is too selfish way of thinking to come from a town member, town is a team and it doesn't matter who dies first and who makes it to the end of the game as long as the town wins, because when the town wins, dead townies win too. You knew that your death by nightkill was going to be very positive for the town, but you preferred early claiming a bomb to ensure scum doesn't kill you.
But of course, you only want to survive, scum only wants to survive without thinking in the entire team.[/quote]
I literally had a whole post two (three?) in-game days ago explaining what a bluff was to you. I'm so tired of you hammering one point over and over and over and over when I've tried my best to explain it, very clearly and simply, to you. The fact you still don't understand it is just not something I can fix.

For a simple reason: because it's not helpful for the town.

...And not knowing what can happen when we lynch people is not useful how? It was a good point in my motive for lynching Celever over Jabber, it was a point in the column against jplap, and it's come up again now to help clear Zone. Seems pretty useful to me.

I don't agree at all. Supposing you are a townie and you truly know the Farewell Ability of a lynch candidate has a negative effect for the town. Are you going to leave him alive despite it's the most scummy player out there? Of course not! If you are convinced a player is scum you can't leave him alive by any means.

If that's what you think my ability is used for then you just couldn't be more wrong. My ability is supposed to be used to line up with claims (Zone, NP), or as a point of discussion on a player (Jabber). Literally what my role is supposed to do, it has been doing. Pretty well, I might add.

? Are we referring to the same post? My full claim is on post #1136.

I never asked for your role again, I was asking NP (NinjaPenguin, if you forgot). I know you have a lot of lying to do, but try not to trip up over things like that:
"And I still want you to re-post your role NP. No hiding anything this time, it's the final day."
Which still applies @NinjaPenguin.

You are mixing apples with potatoes. I do have a kill ability, but it has nothing to do with scum's night kill.
For reference, here is Luis' ability:

This is the weakest defense you've made yet. Of course your ability in your safe-claim would have nothing to do with the scum's night kill. Why even bother to bring that up as a point?