Finished Mafia LI: Senate Subterfuge~Game Over!

[Vracken]

Certamen: Venator Celebrus


There’s a wild boar on the loose! There’s only one thing we can do, and that’s hunt it down. Now, we need your help. Everybody will search the city for the boar, but there’s one issue: the boar will do it’s best to avoid people when possible. This means that the location selected the least by you will be where the boar goes.
Every 24 hours, there will be options for where to find the boar. Only the players who selected the least popular location (which will be selected by PMing is ##PICK: Location) will move on to the next round. When there is only 1 or 2 players remaining, they will be chosen as the winners.

Each winner will get to create a neighborhood chat with two other players of their choice. There, you will be able to talk about the game as much as you want.


You are not allowed to communicate about this certamen in-thread or in any chats.
Everybody will get to participate in this certamen, but must submit answers in time for every phase or else will be eliminated.


Locations:
-Baths (Palaestra, Apodyterium, Tepidarium, Caldarium)
-Curia (Hall, Stairs, Altar, Column)
-Forum (Rostra, Vendors, Via Sacra, Via Appia)
-Templum (Cella, Podium, Palladium, Sacred Fire)
-Walls (Agger, Porta, Battlement, Latrine)

 

[Robin Aisaga]

Because lele reinforces the point that we should be scumhunting instead of rolehunting. I also want to hear from you why think it was scum-like please.

This is the second time mordacazir sided with Tapu Lele. First time being his first comment where he called Tapu Lele's posts genuine town. Also in his first post he tried to shade Total Epicness and Jplap, both of which I think are non triumvirate.

Sorry im blind.

Claims to not have seen Tapu Lele being host confirmed scum. This could've been because he knew Tapu Lele was going to claim a false flip. I'm sorry to say this, but I'm disappointed in anyone that seriously considered that possibility.

Personally I don’t see a Lele as a person who gives up quickly, and that should make him scum. But think the other way around. If he was town, he would also make a defence because he’s town and not scum.

Considering the theory is exactly what mordacazir does, this comment made it appear that both possibilities had an equal chance of being true. Ignoring the fact that a host showed Tapu Lele's full role. The next day mordacazir tried to explain himself that we couldn't be 100% sure Tapu Lele was scum.

This makes me think that bb is actually town (before my read of him was scum), but after also reading BB’s reply I’m not entirely sure.

You’re acting like bb is 100% scum, but he isn’t. You changed his behaviour to look scummy while it could be town.

At some points mordacazir was defending BBninjas, but I have to note at the beginning of the game this was not the case. This could be a distancing tactic however.

I'm looking forward to your reply mordacazir. I'm not voting yet since I have another lead I want to investigate. Namely @GM DracLord

 

[Robin Aisaga]

Correction - Total Epicness is confirmed loyalist, so in that case I know

 

[Robin Aisaga]

Although Lele post today aren't really making him an ideal townie, but Lele like has been told earlier, this is his first game from the start, so I think giving him some slack for earlier post would be good,

Trying to step in before letting the situation esculate? Helping a teammate by blaiming their inexperience is something I expect GM Draclord to do.

Just to make sure not turbo lynch occur

##unvote

GM Draclord was already prepared to lynch Jplap that day. I really get the suspicion that scum was out to kill Jplap... but for now that remains speculation.

Although I kinda want to believe Lele claim that the role is not really his.

GM Draclord did vote for Tapu Lele after the scum flip but what choice did he have? Then this comment makes me think he didn't want to close the window entirely.

The one who i see as quite active.. good to townies and good hidden scums
-celever, bb n jabber

BBninjas turned out to be scum and Celever is still a main suspect. So this is obviously far from the truth. Except if GM Draclord considered Celever and BBninjas good hidden scum because I would argue they're not.

I believe the vote is still tied between bb & PMJ so I wouldn't be voting for either yet since I find you both equally scummy with those post.
Although at least you both are active. At this point I'm game if we decide to lynch others instead of these 2.

For instance the one that I don't trust since Day 1

##VOTE: @Professor_jplap

Refuses to choose a side here and calls PMJ and BBninjas equally scummy, it was pretty obvious only one of them was scum. Also still going after Jplap as if he's the best lead??

So your thoughts please @GM DracLord

 

[GM DracLord]

Trying to step in before letting the situation esculate? Helping a teammate by blaiming their inexperience is something I expect GM Draclord to do.

GM Draclord was already prepared to lynch Jplap that day. I really get the suspicion that scum was out to kill Jplap... but for now that remains speculation.

GM Draclord did vote for Tapu Lele after the scum flip but what choice did he have? Then this comment makes me think he didn't want to close the window entirely.

BBninjas turned out to be scum and Celever is still a main suspect. So this is obviously far from the truth. Except if GM Draclord considered Celever and BBninjas good hidden scum because I would argue they're not.


Refuses to choose a side here and calls PMJ and BBninjas equally scummy, it was pretty obvious only one of them was scum. Also still going after Jplap as if he's the best lead??

So your thoughts please @GM DracLord

Sorr6 im on limited conectivity and cant answer much,
Jlap vote is my personal gut feeling on him since day1,
And i felt the bb n pmj arguement look too staged hencei dont want to believe their block of text, like cel n camo did in the good old days.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Everyone who was wanting PMs, please read the day update. I'm sending them now. <3

Certamen: Venator Celebrus


There’s a wild boar on the loose! There’s only one thing we can do, and that’s hunt it down. Now, we need your help. Everybody will search the city for the boar, but there’s one issue: the boar will do it’s best to avoid people when possible. This means that the location selected the least by you will be where the boar goes.
Every 24 hours, there will be options for where to find the boar. Only the players who selected the least popular location (which will be selected by PMing is ##PICK: Location) will move on to the next round. When there is only 1 or 2 players remaining, they will be chosen as the winners.

Each winner will get to create a neighborhood chat with two other players of their choice. There, you will be able to talk about the game as much as you want.


You are not allowed to communicate about this certamen in-thread or in any chats.
Everybody will get to participate in this certamen, but must submit answers in time for every phase or else will be eliminated.


Locations:
-Baths (Palaestra, Apodyterium, Tepidarium, Caldarium)
-Curia (Hall, Stairs, Altar, Column)
-Forum (Rostra, Vendors, Via Sacra, Via Appia)
-Templum (Cella, Podium, Palladium, Sacred Fire)
-Walls (Agger, Porta, Battlement, Latrine)

Sorry guys, Vrack accidentally posted the wrong certamen. Here's the correct one:

Certamen: Historianus Bonus​

Hello everybody! Today’s certamen is designed to see who can write the most eloquent prose in the game. Those who signup will write a history of this game so far, using whatever writing style/form they want (but keep in under 1000 words and within site rules), by the end of the day.
At the end of the day, we’ll hold them to a vote during the night to see whose entry is worthy of the prize: duel to the death. The winner of this prize will be anonymous and have the ability to, before halfway in any day phase, kill another player in the game, but die of their own wounds too.

You are not allowed to communicate about this certamen in-thread or in any chats. Such communication will result in your entry being disqualified.
The first 6 players to like this post get to participate in this certamen, along with any players with an ability that allows them to do such.

 

[Celever]

TFW the best certamen idea so far has an anti-town reward and one I don't actually want <_<

##VOTE: Jabberwock

His role name is Aulus Gabinius and looking through history it therefore seems like he's mafia, because Gabinius was basically Pompey's right hand man and that's what bb just flipped; bb being mafia himself, of course.

 

[Celever]

The thing is with Celever, he had no real reason to refute the case on BBninjas, it was a solid case and one of the best leads. BBninjas behaviour especially during day 1 should've at least make a person wonder. Celever was clearly set on not letting the BBninjas lynch happen, pressuring literally anything that could lead it to someone else. He would just call PMJ mafia but with what basis exactly? PMJ contributed fair by pointing out the real intentions in BBninjas posts, but according to Celever all of this was just a scummy mafia tactic?

I'm curious to what you have to say for yourself @Celever

Nah I'm not buying this. Just because PMJ was coincidentally right, it doesn't mean his case had legs. It was a bad case -- much like the case on Tapu Lele was on Day 1 -- and this entire game we've gotten really lucky, and that's it: PMJ's case on bbninjas was terrible and I stand by my refutation of it.

 

[Celever]

@NinjaPenguin when are you gonna bite the bullet and modkill the inactives? It's Day 4, and it's time. The more days we have deadweight the further behind the town get because we can't come close to hitting majority even if all the active players randomly agree on a case, and it means each vote is basically worthless (as demonstrated fantastically yesterday by bb getting lynched due to an inactive listening to the loudest voice).

 

[Robin Aisaga]

@Celever
Why do you request that NinjaPenguin kills the remaining inactive players? I think in the first place the hosts should search for more subs. A profile post with a request for subs usually works. We should play the game with the intended number of players in my opinion. But you want free kills don't you?

Also the certamen ability can be useful, to an X shot cop for example or a player that inevitably dies at a certain point. I have my reasons for not signing up, I wonder what your reason is? Probably don't want to kill yourself because you're scum.

 

[Celever]

@Celever
Why do you request that NinjaPenguin kills the remaining inactive players? I think in the first place the hosts should search for more subs. A profile post with a request for subs usually works. We should play the game with the intended number of players in my opinion. But you want free kills don't you?

They've been trying to get subs all game, and have thus far failed. This is a pretty small game, and the deadweight are, as I literally said in the post above yours, actively making it hard to get anything done literally by having inconvenient existences where we have to treat them as though they're playing when they're not. It means that the active players who want to get stuff done can't, and also means late game that we'll be randomly lynching players with no reason behind why we're lynching who we are, because they'll have like 5 posts each, if that.

Also the certamen ability can be useful, to an X shot cop for example or a player that inevitably dies at a certain point. I have my reasons for not signing up, I wonder what your reason is? Probably don't want to kill yourself because you're scum.

No: a vig shot which also kills the player who uses it is never a good role for a town to try and use because by far the likeliest outcome is that we lose two townies.

 

[Mariano11887]

At a first glance, I kinda agree with both Robin's cases (morda and Drac). I need to look back at their posts by myself to make some actual reads.
I also want to re-read Celever's posts because him rejecting the case on bbninjas so hard is really suspicious to me, and panicking when jplap hammered bbninjas was even worse.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

@NinjaPenguin when are you gonna bite the bullet and modkill the inactives? It's Day 4, and it's time. The more days we have deadweight the further behind the town get because we can't come close to hitting majority even if all the active players randomly agree on a case, and it means each vote is basically worthless (as demonstrated fantastically yesterday by bb getting lynched due to an inactive listening to the loudest voice).

Today, if half of majority (4) isn't reached, there will be large consequences for all inactives. That is not a threat; it is a promise.
Additionally, if certain players 0 post and we can't find subs, we also may have to resort to modkilling their slots. This is not ideal, but may have to be done.

 

[Jabberwock]

Doesn’t anybody care about claiming anymore? Also :/ I’ll wait for the case on me. And where the heck is the fishing? Post 8 is closest fishing but what I meant there is not your abilities but your reads.

You asked me twice for reads-related stuff and quaking asked once for role-related stuff. The only time you offered anything approaching an actual read, you backed down from it immediately with a handwave.

Sorr6 im on limited conectivity and cant answer much,
Jlap vote is my personal gut feeling on him since day1,
And i felt the bb n pmj arguement look too staged hencei dont want to believe their block of text, like cel n camo did in the good old days.

You thought the bb/PMJ thing was staged? So why not vote for one of them? For them to have staged it, they'd have both had to be scum.

TFW the best certamen idea so far has an anti-town reward and one I don't actually want <_<

This isn't a reward that you would use unless you were totally sure of your target. That said, as you noted earlier, even if you don't intend to use it it's absolutely worth joining to keep it out of scum's hands.

##VOTE: Jabberwock

His role name is Aulus Gabinius and looking through history it therefore seems like he's mafia, because Gabinius was basically Pompey's right hand man and that's what bb just flipped; bb being mafia himself, of course.

Ihni about Roman history, but yes that's my role and no I'm not aligned with the Triumvirate. Bothers me a tiny bit that you're reaching for that without even a comment on the lynches Robin suggested.

 

[Celever]

You thought the bb/PMJ thing was staged? So why not vote for one of them? For them to have staged it, they'd have both had to be scum.

I'm also in this camp, in fairness, and I said it yesterday too. If I didn't have a better target in you thanks to knowing your role name, I would be voting PMJ right now.

This isn't a reward that you would use unless you were totally sure of your target. That said, as you noted earlier, even if you don't intend to use it it's absolutely worth joining to keep it out of scum's hands.

No we actually want scum to get it, really. In the very very few situations where the role could come in handy a mafian still wouldn't want to use it, and that gives us a route through which to exert pressure. And in every other situation a mafian wouldn't want to use it, either.

Ihni about Roman history, but yes that's my role and no I'm not aligned with the Triumvirate.

Yeah no I don't know much about Roman history either (and wish I'd found out your alignment straight rather than your role name since the intention was clearly for me to find out your alignment) but your entire Wikipedia page is about how loyal and devout you were to Pompey, and how you basically ensured he found power. Plus, your flavour clashes a lil bit with mine and I don't think it should unless you're mafia.

Bothers me a tiny bit that you're reaching for that without even a comment on the lynches Robin suggested.

Why? This isn't a reach it's confirmation that you're mafia lol. We'll look at Robin's cases tomorrow.

 

[Jabberwock]

No we actually want scum to get it, really. In the very very few situations where the role could come in handy a mafian still wouldn't want to use it, and that gives us a route through which to exert pressure. And in every other situation a mafian wouldn't want to use it, either.

Are you saying it's both anti-town and anti-scum?

Why? This isn't a reach it's confirmation that you're mafia lol. We'll look at Robin's cases tomorrow.

Idk what your scanner thing does exactly, but I gotta conclude you're misinterpreting the results. My role is town.

 

[Mariano11887]

If I didn't have a better target in you thanks to knowing your role name, I would be voting PMJ right now.

Why would you vote the person who insisted so hard in lynching 2 scums?

 

[PMJ]

Celever has no idea what he's talking about. The only other person who was this heavily invested in not lynching bb was bb and we all know how that turned out.

Jabber is probably town.

##vote: Celever

 

[Celever]

Are you saying it's both anti-town and anti-scum?

Yes.

Idk what your scanner thing does exactly, but I gotta conclude you're misinterpreting the results. My role is town.

I just know your role name, so I'm not misinterpreting anything. Deducing alignment from that is something the town will have to do together.

Why would you vote the person who insisted so hard in lynching 2 scums?

Because PMJ vs bbninjas was likely staged so that whoever won the "argument" would get a lot of credibility within the town and they would be able to steamroll the rest of the game from there; the scumteam was losing Lele early and bbninjas was already a publicly acknowledged solid lynch target (before PMJ even made a post in the game, might I add), so the faction had to make a power play.

Evidence for this theory includes the following:

• The fact that the argument was so intentionally centralising to discussion (to the point where PMJ would keep telling players who weren't talking only about bbninjas to focus on him)
• How weak both sides truly were (PMJ's case on bbninjas was full of countless logic flaws which were pointed out by both me and bb over the course of the day, and bbninjas didn't even really attempt to make a case on PMJ (or anyone else for that matter) and his defensive arguments were usually pretty under-cooked)
• PMJ's admission that he didn't actually look at any players in the game in-depth besides bb before deciding to make a case on him: PMJ didn't have to look for the scummiest player because the purpose of the case wasn't to lynch the scummiest player -- the target was bbninjas because they were scumbuddies and the argument was orchestrated.

Jabber is probably town.

Yannow how this game is usually marketed as a game of logic and reason? Could you display some of that, please? :L (i.e.: "why?")

 

[PMJ]

Sure. Because unlike a one-shot certamen reward, I don't think hosts would put a role cop in the setup if it could be used to find scum that easily. It would devolve the game into exactly what they are trying to stop, scumhunting based on ability results and not posts and reads.

The alternative is that you hit a safe claim, but giving jabber a safe claim that isn't safe goes against what hosts said in the op, that safe claims are strong. Why would they include an obviously scum-sounding role as a safe claim if their intent was to have impenetrable safe claims, just to get it undone by a role cop?

Jabber confirmed his role name so the only way he could possibly be scum is if you were town.

Probably.

I'm willing to sacrifice you to find out.