Finished Mafia LI: Senate Subterfuge~Game Over!

[PMJ]

It's based on my response to Yog about how many scum there were. There's the three in the triumvirate, that we know. Tapu Lele was separate from that but still scum so we know there are more than just the triumvirate. Typically, 25% of the roles are anti-town, meaning five players in this 20-man setup.

Before, that meant four scum and dos as indie. That didn't really leave room for jabber to be scum, even though his name might have suggested it. But now that np has confirmed that dos was not a threat to the town, it suggests that there's actually five scum and jabber is it.

As I said before though, it's strange that hosts would give jabber such a scummy role if he was town, knowing a way to learn role names was in the setup. Either that or it's a safe claim, but it's a bad one. And that goes against everything that np said.

If jabber ends up town then Celever is still going to get strung up tomorrow and as jibbles said we have room for a mistake or two. Every death is more info.

 

[Robin Aisaga]

But it doesn't prove that there are five Triumvirate. I'm not saying that it's unlikely, but Double o squirtle being harmless indie does not mean that we now know that there are no indies that do form a threat.

Also in my opinion there has always been room for Jabber to be scum. We simply don't know how this game was designed. Historical accuracy does not mean Ninjapenguin decided to use only the most well known Triumvirates. For example a harmful indie could have relations with the triumvirate. With loyalist aligned players having relations to Pompey it really wouldn't surprise me, (Though I guess this point isn't convincing since I'm the only one who knows this is true). It was also never entirely out of the question that the scumteam consists of 5 members with an additional harmful indie in the game.

 

[PMJ]

There haven't been any extra kills which would suggest a serial killer, so I think that dos was the only indie in the setup.

And you know what, we do have time to guess wrong. It's time to go conspiracy theory on this lynch.

##unvote
##vote Celever

I'm trusting the hosts on this one. Celever is scum whose night action is to check the role name of a player. There exist scum-sounding town names exactly so the scum can push their lynches and then we fall in the trap of relying on night actions and not reads.

Final answer. Unless someone comes out and says they're scum my vote is parked.

 

[PMJ]

The purpose of Celever's role is to find Tapu Lele. It might be on him to escape the basement, but if the scum could find him then they could at least not push his lynch.

 

[Scattered mind]

The purpose of Celever's role is to find Tapu Lele. It might be on him to escape the basement, but if the scum could find him then they could at least not push his lynch.

Of course! That’s why he was so sure Lele was not in the scumchat just from the flavor..

 

[Celever]

Of course! That’s why he was so sure Lele was not in the scumchat just from the flavor..

The role was pretty clear that Lele wasn't in the scumchat. Being lynched for perceptiveness seems unfair, eh?

Time for a full claim to see how these anti-claim mechanics actually are (I'm trusting the hosts that they're not BS). My role was that over the first 3 nights (not including night 0 ofc) I targeted a player. At the start of Day 4, I learned the role name of one of the players, chosen at random. The phrasing of my Role PM made it seem like, to me, I wouldn't even find out which player the rolename was for, but it turns out that when I got my result, I did. That's why I only have one result to share with you, and I'm fine with claiming because it was also my only ability, so if there are anti-claim measures in place that would, for example, lock a player's abilities... well, I have none left to lock.

So no, my role wouldn't have functioned as a way to figure out who Lele was at all. Plus, since we now know nothing bad happens if role names are public, my character is Spinther. Go look for any relationship between Spinther and Gaulinus and let me know what turns up: I just tried it, and got nothing. Though admittedly, I also have now discovered that Spinther was an avid supporter of Pompey, but also an detractor of Caesar, so take from that what you will..? Roman history may just be too messed up for my ability to have had use at this point, and the lynch on Jabs may actually be bogus, now that I realise my character had ties to Pompey as well.

 

[Yog]

If you are going to full claim @Celever, do you mind posting your actual role?

 

[Celever]

If you are going to full claim @Celever, do you mind posting your actual role?

No, because I think the anti-claim mechanics will trigger once things are directly quoted, whereas paraphrasing is fine. It's just a prediction, but not something I want to risk,

 

[PMJ]

I bet the anti-claim mechanics are only for dos, whose win condition depended directly on eliminating a specific subset of players.

Who else did you target?

 

[Mariano11887]

Well, I don't have time to go back and re-read people's posts to make a clear read on some of you guys. So, considering half of the day already passed, I will rely on the impressions I have in mind of each of you to cast my vote.
I never found any substance on Jabber's case.
On the other side and from what I remember, Celever has insisted so dramatically to avoid bbninjas lynch and go over PMJ, who pushed really hard to lynch Lele and bb. I'm not saying PMJ is cleared, but IMO he has gained some town points. And when Jplap suddenly voted bb and saved PMJ, Celever panicked.

##VOTE: Celever

 

[PMJ]

Yay, town points! Town points are my favorite.

 

[Celever]

I bet the anti-claim mechanics are only for dos, whose win condition depended directly on eliminating a specific subset of players.

Who else did you target?

scattered mind and mord.

 

[Robin Aisaga]

Though admittedly, I also have now discovered that Spinther was an avid supporter of Pompey, but also an detractor of Caesar, so take from that what you will..? Roman history may just be too messed up for my ability to have had use at this point, and the lynch on Jabs may actually be bogus, now that I realise my character had ties to Pompey as well.

Where do you stand now, do you have another lynch proposal or did you really not care to look into anyone but Jabber? Also you should still claim your ability or even better a full role claim. We're approaching another tie, I think the situation requires it, I wouldn't mind Jabber claiming his ability / abilities either.

Yay, town points! Town points are my favorite.

I thought receiving positive effects from my ability was your favorite T_T </3

 

[Mariano11887]

Where do you stand now, do you have another lynch proposal or did you really not care to look into anyone but Jabber? Also you should still claim your ability or even better a full role claim. We're approaching another tie, I think the situation requires it, I wouldn't mind Jabber claiming his ability / abilities either.

What would we gain from them fully claiming?

 

[Jabberwock]

I'm glad someone agrees that Jabber may not be the best lynch. But Mordacazir in turn won't tell us a lot about Jabber regardless what he flips. He is suspicious but I don't think Mordacazir will result in worthy leads.

Mord and I share a neighbor chat; his flip will confirm that. If he's scum then I'm basically cleared because there's no in-game reason for two scum to share a chat that isn't the scumchat.

Celever flip on the other hand will tell us about Jabber. Celever in the first place was out to get him killed. It just doesn't add up. Ninjapenguin told us that the scum have strong safeclaims. Then he would add an ability that makes those safeclaims obsolete? Supposedly with this ability you just have to look someone up to know if they're scum? No, Ninjpapenguin would not make it that easy if he dislikes cops and seers. Lastly, like I've been trying to tell everyone, my role has also been made in a way that it can be
frowned upon.

I'm not convinced Celever's scum, or at least not as much as I am of mord. Everything he said and did before today read as genuine to me –– ridiculously misguided perhaps, but town for all that. This is getting into WIFOM territory, but I also honestly can't see Celever as scum defending bb the way he did; he'd've cut his losses and moved on. A lot of you probably disagree with me on that –– but if I do end up getting lynched thanks to the valiant efforts of Nick and jplap, it doesn't necessarily mean Celever's scum.

My vote on Celever stays. I don't believe that all his frustration comes from the state of the game or just being attacked. This aggressiveness towards anyone trying to discuss with him is more likely the result of having lost 2 numbers and being a candidate himself.

I'm completely certain that his frustration with the state of the game is genuine, having talked about the state of WW on this site with him in the past.

You were on the right tract of activeness thenyou dissapear before appearing with this sudden vote ##Vote: @jlap

Have you put your vote on an active player at all yet this game?

Though admittedly, I also have now discovered that Spinther was an avid supporter of Pompey, but also an detractor of Caesar, so take from that what you will..? Roman history may just be too messed up for my ability to have had use at this point, and the lynch on Jabs may actually be bogus, now that I realise my character had ties to Pompey as well.

How about that. Do you still reckon I'm the best lynch?

Also you should still claim your ability or even better a full role claim.

FoS on Robin. Cel did claim his Ability, even said it's his only Ability, and there's no reason for a full claim here.

We're approaching another tie, I think the situation requires it, I wouldn't mind Jabber claiming his ability / abilities either.

A claim from me here wouldn't change anything. You already know my role name, flavor, and that I have a neighbor chat with mord.

 

[Yog]

No, because I think the anti-claim mechanics will trigger once things are directly quoted, whereas paraphrasing is fine. It's just a prediction, but not something I want to risk,

That's fair enough. It's just harder to tell if that's made up or not without the direct quote.

 

[Robin Aisaga]

What would we gain from them fully claiming?

A better informed choice basically, I was asking because Celever and Jabber were both closing in on becoming prime lynch candidates. I agree that I was probably asking for a claim too early and Jabber revealing their neighbour chat with Mordacazir changed the situation. It no longer means that Mordacazir's flip doesn't lead to anything.

@Jabberwock : Ninjapenguin did not confirm that Mordacazir is your mason? From your comment I'm guessing that the hosts left you entirely in the dark about their alignment? If so, more of a chance that he is scum. For now I'm going to entertain the idea that Celever was ridiculously misguided.

##UNVOTE
##VOTE: MORDACAZIR

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Vote Count 2​

mordacazir (4): Jabberwock, @Acetrainer_Samwise, Yog, Robin Aisaga
@Jabberwock (5): Celever, PMJ, scattered mind, @TeamAqua4Life#HEYNICK, @Professor_jplap
Celever (2): PMJ, Robin Aisaga, scattered mind, PMJ, Mariano11887
Professor_jplap (1): @GM DracLord

Abstaining:
@mordacazir, @GekkisaiDaiNi, @Jadethepokemontrainer

Players yet to post four times today have been tagged (players yet to post have been notified via Discord), along with the player who would be lynched if the day ended right now (Jabberwock).
Modkills are incoming. They are promised for any zero posters and likely to come to any one or two posters who've zero posted before and are not on V/LA .

 

[Jabberwock]

@Jabberwock : Ninjapenguin did not confirm that Mordacazir is your mason? From your comment I'm guessing that the hosts left you entirely in the dark about their alignment?

My ability explicitly states that the hosts aren't gonna confirm mord's alignment for me.

 

[Nick Tornell]

!
Yay, scum slip

Should we wait for tomorrow or lynch him first, though?

Look buddy, I'm gone for an in game day and night faze and I come back to look through what happened,do some research on the history that this game is based on. Based off of that I vote the same guy you do. You then say that I'm confirmed scum and offer me as a lynch candidate. I don't know if that's sarcasm or not but, not cool.

Oh wow, another one.. wait what?

Same thing...
Who's side are you on anyway.
Also, if it wasn't sarcasm, you now have to decide who to vote for day five lynch.