Finished Mafia LII : The Game World

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You speak as if you don't like Nick's story. yet no one but Nick has used it to conclude anything. Does something about it upset you?
No I’m just pointing out that Nick hasn’t even told us that what he said he did actually happened. Did he get told by the hosts that his ability saved Mord or not?
 
I think there is good reason to believe in Nick's story for the time being, as it is our only insight into the events of last night. A plausible one too, unless there were evidence to refute it.

And besides:
I was specifically told that I had successfully protected mord, I protected him because the scattered thing got me thinking that if Camo got angry at mord yesterday, mord could be a potential target for the kill and wanting to keep someone in the game is not inherently scummy. I asked if there was an ability blocker as a precaution for tonight in case we don't lynch Camo today and I get confirmation tonight. The reason I protected on night 0 is because I prefer to set up easier access to my pm convorsa
Sorry, mobile.
Easier access to pm conversation with hosts in part and I forgot about the no night 0 kill rule.
To answer Lele, I have no clue. Probably gonna put it through my analysis before anything but I'll get it tonight presuming I don't get lynched and I'll share if we don't lynch Camo today. From that info, well all decide which way well vote tomorrow. I did not get confirmation of bb.

I think he's already explained all of what he's witnessed. He did not get any notification when he tried protecting bb. But he got notification when he attempted to protect mord, and coincidentally no night kill happened during that night.

But that should be basic knowledge by now
Now tell me @TOTAL_EPICNESS, why are you begging for trivial questions to be answered before giving any merit to the story?

You know, if you were suspecting him of lying, he could simply respond with another lie.
But if you think his explanation is misguided, please tell me your own explanation of last night. I'm listening.
 
I didn’t see those I guess I wasn’t focusing when I caught myself up and only saw Roz’s post asking about it and just assumed he didn’t, sorry
I wasn’t begging lol I just thought he didn’t get confirmation and wanted to find out
I don’t have an explanation of last night but there wasn’t a night kill so I believe what he says now that I’ve read those posts that I missex
 
I didn’t see those I guess I wasn’t focusing when I caught myself up and only saw Roz’s post asking about it and just assumed he didn’t, sorry
I wasn’t begging lol I just thought he didn’t get confirmation and wanted to find out
I don’t have an explanation of last night but there wasn’t a night kill so I believe what he says now that I’ve read those posts that I missex
So you "missex" you know, like all of the important details being discussed, but you pay attention to the criticism on those details?

Is it really out of carelessness, or given that you prioritized rox's disruptive response over the original discussion, were you looking to disrupt the thread?

Because you seem to do a really good job at that.
SM at this point is all but a policy lynch. He is too scummy to risk keeping around.
What do you mean by this? Do you mean that SM defended himself and there are no longer any points against him? If so then why are we lynching him
I think you missed the word "but"
Otherwise, I don't understand how you got that from his post.
Camo said it’s a policy lynch so I’m asking if you have defended all the points Camo brought up against you and if you have then there’s not really a reason to lynch you
OK, I am not a native speaker, so correct me if I'm wrong- "all but a policy lynch"="everything except a policy lynch"? That's why I said you probably missed the "but".
Oh
Yeah ignore what I was saying I misread Camo’s post sorry
So Camo can make all the cases he wants using bad reasoning and if we end up mislynching because of it it’s ok because Camo plays town like that?
The way you seem to be interpreting the posts of others reflects a desire to arouse chaos from the thread than help the ongoing conversation.

##VOTE: TOTAL_EPICNESS
 
I stated the only explanation that has been given. For why mord was targeted by scum for NK, my belief is that they wanted him dead to prevent any further attacking of Camo if Camo is mafia. If anyone else has an interpretation, I'm willing to hear it.
 
Lele's case is bunk.
 
I stated the only explanation that has been given. For why mord was targeted by scum for NK, my belief is that they wanted him dead to prevent any further attacking of Camo if Camo is mafia. If anyone else has an interpretation, I'm willing to hear it.
It's just as likely if not more to be framing Camo unfortunately. Morda isn't a player whose attacks are really that influential or feared tbh (sorry morda).

##VOTE: TOTAL_EPICNESS
I don't really see Lele's side here, but I haven't liked the posting just in general and want to hop onto some wagon.
 
My only qualm with the whole "was mordacazir protected" thing is "Why was morda the nightkill target?" There was plenty of negative attention on morda, after all. Did anyone get driven to mord / drive someone to mord, maybe?

@Tapu Lele, is your vote because: TE noticed Roz's comment (that "the result wasn't valid"), but didn't notice where Aqua said he was specifically told that his action was successful? ... I don't follow why that's scummy at all. People miss sentences all the time, especially if they're part of paragraphs because people don't always feel like reading paragraphs.

I also think Aqua's vote / case on Camo is ridiculous, because there's no reason why Camo can't just be town, and this coincidental. (Camo was suspicious of morda Day 1, so town Camo - without any knowledge of morda being protected - would absolutely continue to pressure morda Day 2.)

@bbninjas I ain't forgot about you, my friend, get in here and explain why you said Camo's wagon was widely agreed on to be the worst case when no one but me said it was awful. Sounds like you were just trying to say whatever to fit in and hope it'd fly.

I've already said that this it was my impression. I can't tell you specifically why I had that impression because that's just not stuff that everyone remembers. If you were in fact the only person to suggest explicitly or implicitly that the Camoclone wagon was awful (which I doubt because the wagon was awful), then I can only speculate. Maybe you were being particularly assertive, maybe Camo was being particularly assertive (and I can't imagine a universe where Camo wouldn't have been saying that the case was rubbish), my personal bias (that the case was awful) probably played a part, maybe the town was apathetic / ignored the situation and I read into the situation, maybe that part of the thread was all I read that sitting, and so my mind emphasised it more than usual... I don't know.

Why do you think that I would have said that the 'town widely agreed that the Camoclone case sucked' if I didn't believe it? The context of my saying that was to essentially defend morda (to show why I discounted some of the apparent evidence on him); why would I be saying whatever to fit in - something random / something I wasn't sure of - when my intentions were to defend someone? That would be pointless because noone will listen to you if your reasons are nonsense.
 
##VOTE: NP I'm pretty confident with this vote, because we've seen an inconsistent progression with his votes / reads across the board. He flip-flopped over his read on scattered (neutral -> innocent -> neutralish/innocent -> scummy) without there being any real development in the case. He voted on-and-off with the morda wagon (more or less whenever the morda wagon was a convenient push). His vote now on TE is very vague; he doesn't say why he doesn't like TE's posts in general.
 
I probably should also say that my activity will be a little odd Day 2 because the day spans over the busiest part of my week. >.>'
 
I think there is good reason to believe in Nick's story for the time being, as it is our only insight into the events of last night. A plausible one too, unless there were evidence to refute it.

And besides:
I think he's already explained all of what he's witnessed. He did not get any notification when he tried protecting bb. But he got notification when he attempted to protect mord, and coincidentally no night kill happened during that night.

But that should be basic knowledge by now
Now tell me @TOTAL_EPICNESS, why are you begging for trivial questions to be answered before giving any merit to the story?

You know, if you were suspecting him of lying, he could simply respond with another lie.
But if you think his explanation is misguided, please tell me your own explanation of last night. I'm listening.

That's actualy ridiculous.

You want to lynch someone cause he protected someone. Wasn't even told about save, just protect.

It's not even close to be worth of mechanical lynch.
Learn to read people if you need to base your lynches on stuff like that.
 
Take it as you wish, but that's the reason why I asked if he saved someone or just protected.

I'm ccing the base of his theory.

You now outed 2 PRs cause of some weird us mechanical conclusions.

Also, while we are at PRs in game, someone took my points last night.
 
Part 1:
##UNVOTE:
##VOTE: PMJ
Pressure on PMJ while he knows that he's away not that scummy and not that important but still noteworthy that the pressure here is weird.
Can you please explain this post? All of it.

1. What does the first sentence mean?
2. Why do you think TE is town?

##UNVOTE:
##VOTE: TeamAqua4Life
Actually a good town post but the pressure on Aqua is insane. The only thing Aqua did 'wrong' was not explain his post further while I think the post was quite clear.
The same thing town intends to achieve with any vote.
Implies that its weird that someone thinks Camo isn't town/that he himself is town which is manipulative.
Why are you so antsy about me playing to my win condition?
Again, the same as above but more obvious.
Why do you think I was talking about you?

This is weirdly defensive for something that wasn’t a direct attack on you.

##UNVOTE:
##VOTE: SCATTERED MIND
The thing is that the 'tagging players doesnt give you town credit'-post can be read as both a attack on Scattered and a general statement. Camo is trying to provoke a reaction from scattered here by saying that, and if scattered wouldnt have reacted everything wouldve been just fine (or Camo couldve mentioned Scattered not reacting to that post which with enough twisting can be painted as scummy, but maybe thats reaching too far). Sadly, that didnt happen, so Camo took the opportunity and used it to make Scattered as scummy.
It was just a general statement. I didn’t say it was scummy either but you jumped to conclusions.
The conclusions Camo intentionally put there to make scattered scummy.

Didnt think this would take so long so I'll just post this and continue later
 
I agree that the pressure vote on PMJ and that particular interaction with scattered where he said "but you [scattered] jumped to conclusions" when that wasn't the case are both weird, but how are they indicative or particularly telling, especially in Camo's case? Otherwise, I think you made a very interesting point, that Camo implied it 'to be weird if someone finds Camo not-town' and I am very interested in Camo's response on this, because it is manipulative and I do not see how he could be of pro-town benefit.
 
When someone asks a bad question like “why did you vote blank” it deserves a bad answer. Far too often on this site someone places a vote then is asked to explain it. The voter then immediately says “it was for pressure” which eliminates any and all weight the vote might have.
 
While this is not entirely incorrect, it does leave out all the important reasons. I wouldn't call it misleading per se, but definitely uninformed.



I have so many questions.

What makes you think that your role specifically stopped the night kill?
If you thought mord wanting to keep scattered alive was suspicious, why would you protect him? Further, if it was so suspicious, why are you using Camo's immediate pressure of him as evidence against Camo?
Why protect on night zero, and why bbninjas? That's actually suspicious. Kills aren't allowed on night zero; what purpose would a doctor's protection have?
Were you told that you successfully protected mord, or are you assuming that because no one died?
Why did you need someone to come forward with a blocked ability before you came forward with your results (which apparently wasn't that necessary because you blabbed anyway)?

I've been suspicious of you for a while now, and this doesn't help raise your stock in my eyes. You've been making it a point to mention things you did as scum last game and it feels like you're intentionally trying to distance yourself from the idea of you being scum.

##vote: Nick @GM DracLord if that's not okay to shorthand let me know and I'll re-vote
I don’t like this.

##UNVOTE:
##VOTE: PMJ


This post isn’t all wrong but a lot of the points are bad. Why not protect on town zero? That’s actually the smart town move. I don’t like a vote on a claimed doctor. Why would you vote a claimed doctor immediately. Nick while being logically faulty does actually appear to be a new town doctor. If he was scum and they came up with this plan I’m sure someone would tell him how bad it was. I’ll add more later.
 
There's no reason a doctor should have to protect on night zero. That's why I thought it was suspicious. He lied just last game about stuff that happened during the night, and the whole 'scum would say it's a bad plan' is wifom. He's also openly distancing himself from the idea of being scum.
 
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