Finished Mafia LVII: Big Brother Betrayal: Game Over! Postgame Part 1 Up!

[Zone Q11]

I complained about RVS last game, I'm just not interested in trying to make votes based off information that we don't even have yet. Honestly I'm not in this game to play mafia like my sign-up said, I just wanted to see if I'd enjoy the BB aspect of it.
If you want the real reason I voted Vom, it's because I liked his playing last game (I think there was somewhere in the OP about it being against the rules to judge things by past games? Either that or I didn't read things fully) so I didn't mention that as a reason. I was going to make a joke about how we're friends and both Canadian so I'd support him though that's completely unrelated to anything in the actual game, so I felt it shouldn't really be mentioned either.

Mmm... Okay.

Good point. Too bad my would-be-go-to vote is the host. :LLLL

Too bad host is not in the game. I would've totally tunneled him if he was.

I think morda is right and we should choose someone who's experienced and knows what they're doing. So I'm gonna ##VOTE: Blinkehyo for now.

*had something to say*
*reads posts after this one*
*takes back whatever I was going to say*

I actually asked Morda that question because his post implicitly casted shade on anyone who wanted to be HoH.

...well that was not what I thought why you asked morda. I thought you simply asked to get more conversation going tbh.

Huh? Should I just ignore this or what do you wanna accomplish with this?

Accomplish... I guess my goal is for you to not Vom if your reason is "because you trust she is an experienced player".
(I just remembered that Vom is female... orz)

If the day was to end right now, Vom would become Head of Household, as he reached two votes first. There are 24 hours remaining in this Head of Household competition.

To any Vom-voters, if your only reason to vote her is because you trust her, then I will do my usual thing, be scummy, and vote her as well to implicitly throw some shade. ...somehow.

 

[Celever]

@bbninjas I understand your idea of electing someone who doesn't know anyone else and I think I'd probably actually go with it if anyone in the game didn't know anyone else, but considering Maxwell and Zone have a lot of history together the only way this could work is if Maxwell agrees not to vote for Zone, which has the direct downside of what if Maxwell genuinely finds Zone the scummiest? I'm not sure it's viable. What do you think, @JCMaxwell @Zone Q11 ?

I also have apprehension towards electing Blinky for that reason; not everyone in this game played in the last game (haven't actually checked but I know at least 2 (me and Maxwell) which limits how extensively we can read into the actions of HoH in this first phase.

Echoing what Zone just said that voting someone for being trustworthy is inherently flawed because mafians are not to be trusted by definition, and roles are given out randomly. From my understanding of America's Player, I also think that they are not trustworthy, even if they're not mafian, and that role was handed out randomly too. I also think it's important to reiterate that everyone who's not one of the previously mentioned roles is vanilla, so there's no role results being hidden by the facade of trustworthiness. Except for one possibility, which is eliminated should I say what that possibility is, so I'm gonna hold off on it for now, but still urge people to vote for mord... it's a theory littered with assumptions and a lot of flaws (primarily as a result of the inactive players, making a nice change for this site UUUU but I'd appreciate if people entertain me on this.

Especially because I don't see that there's an optimal play in this phase. I'm vexed trying to ascertain what NP hopes to achieve with having the popularity contest be the first HoH competition, I'd have thought this would be better suited to a late game phase.

By all means though, someone offer an alternative and try to convince me that there is an optimal play.

 

[Celever]

I also have questions as to how extensively we can read into the actions conducted by the HoH in this phase outside of one specific outcome anyway, which I'm not going to expand upon until after this phase anyway because transparency limits the conclusions right now, but the one outcome for me still centres on mord (mord is this player because of what he's said in this thread so far).

 

[Celever]

Just rechecked the playerlist and there's also this @Geyde dude who none of us have played with before (unless he wants to come in and tell us otherwise (or talk at all)) so that's a whole nother anomaly to consider when ascertaining the efficacy of basing the HoH on previous player connections. I think it works in theory but not in practice.

 

[bbninjas]

It's late so (sorta) sorry if I don't make sense

I agree with basically everything you said @Celever, which is either a really good start or completely terrible depending on the way you look at it. I've been considering moving my vote from Maxwell to Geyde because of that link with Zone and probably will do that if Geyde shows signs of life. Dx

Just rechecked the playerlist and there's also this @Geyde dude who none of us have played with before (unless he wants to come in and tell us otherwise (or talk at all)) so that's a whole nother anomaly to consider when ascertaining the efficacy of basing the HoH on previous player connections. I think it works in theory but not in practice.

Did I miss where you explained that electing someone who has no predetermined player connections (i.e. Geyde) wouldn't work in practice?

 

[bbninjas]

Too bad host is not in the game. I would've totally tunneled him if he was.

I'm relieved Dx

...well that was not what I thought why you asked morda. I thought you simply asked to get more conversation going tbh.

I mean sure, that's a byproduct of asking people questions. There's a difference between start conversation for the sake of conversation (suboptimal) and starting conversation with some sort of goal or reason (optimal).

(I just remembered that Vom is female... orz)

wait... did.. when... sure?

 

[JadeGemTM]

Oof. Alright, I am genuinely confused as to how we should be voting for an HOH like this. I'll be honest, I joined this game for the BB aspect and not as much the Mafia aspect. I had to skim through the thread because I have a very busy day today, so didn't see much too worthy of looking into. Will try to get back on next time I have a break and read back more thoroughly I guess though I don't know if that would even be necessary or worth it?

For now though I guess, in case I don't have a chance to come back before the comp ends, I'll vote ##VOTE: JCMaxwell
I'm into bb ideas here. Thinking that voting someone who doesn't know most of the people here would be probably the best option. Tag me if @Geyde comes on.

I'll be around my computer for the next 10 minutes or so, so if y'all got anything for me now would be the best time.

 

[Celever]

Did I miss where you explained that electing someone who has no predetermined player connections (i.e. Geyde) wouldn't work in practice?

Actually that's a valid option; it's a risk because we have no context as to Geyde's playing ability (they didn't state in their signup post whether or not NP invited them to play; if he did then they probably have prior experience but it's an assumption and they could be a total random) so we don't know how accurate his reads would be, but if he turns up I wouldn't be totally against it.

I'll be around my computer for the next 10 minutes or so, so if y'all got anything for me now would be the best time.

Actually, I do (and for @bbninjas but if you've had to go to sleep cos you're on the other side of the world I guess that's acceptable until you come back later U: )

I think your play of choosing someone with no prior connections so that they base their nominations based solely on the game thread relies on one thing: there being anything of value in the game thread. I want both of you to try and take a forget-me-not about all the other players here and try to look objectively at the content of the posts in this thread so far, and then propose which 2 players you would nominate. Personally for me, I don't think there's enough in this thread for Maxwell or Geyde to make a sufficient conclusion as to who the 2 best nominees would be; prove me wrong.

 

[Celever]

And tbf the above goes for everyone else. There being a HoH doesn't absolve the rest of us of responsibility for scumhunting unless we end up being HoH. We're a town (well, most of us are) and probability dictates that whoever is nominated this phase will be town too: let's take a communitarian effort to ascertain the 2 best nominess so the HoH doesn't have total culpability later on for their nominees, considering probability also dictates both of their nominees will be town; it's an easy strawman for scum to try and push a lynch later, and the ideal is obviously that we nominate 2 scum anyway.

 

[Nick Tornell]

Hmmm, odd but reading up I just really don’t know who I’d vote for in this situation...

 

[Celever]

Hmmm, odd but reading up I just really don’t know who I’d vote for in this situation...

You don't have to place a vote, literally just say every thought you have about this game that's in your head, even if it doesn't result in a conclusion. Half of what I say in this game is thinking out loud.

 

[Nick Tornell]

Well then, I guess ##Vote: Violet
Bonds are what keep us strong (maybe biased), also, I will point out that Zone is making me uneasy for thinking that bb just wanted to get more of a conversation going. Anything wrong with that? Oh wait, you don’t simply want to get a conversation going in mafia, there is always a motive.> that’s how mafia works

 

[Zone Q11]

@bbninjas I understand your idea of electing someone who doesn't know anyone else and I think I'd probably actually go with it if anyone in the game didn't know anyone else, but considering Maxwell and Zone have a lot of history together the only way this could work is if Maxwell agrees not to vote for Zone, which has the direct downside of what if Maxwell genuinely finds Zone the scummiest? I'm not sure it's viable. What do you think, @JCMaxwell @Zone Q11 ?

First of all: I may know Maxwell, but I basically know him from the only on-going game on I42. In other words: We still know pretty much nothing about each other.
Secondly: Can't we just let mirdo be the HoH? ...that is, unless he stays AFK, in which case I would vote Maxwell.

so I'm gonna hold off on it for now, but still urge people to vote for mord... it's a theory littered with assumptions and a lot of flaws (primarily as a result of the inactive players, making a nice change for this site UUUU but I'd appreciate if people entertain me on this.

*ignores previous content between this fragment and the previous fragment I quoted, because it was too long, subjectively unimportant, and "hard to read"*
...I think I want to say something about inactivity, but I forgot already...

Just rechecked the playerlist and there's also this @Geyde dude who none of us have played with before (unless he wants to come in and tell us otherwise (or talk at all)) so that's a whole nother anomaly to consider when ascertaining the efficacy of basing the HoH on previous player connections. I think it works in theory but not in practice.

I agree with basically everything you said @Celever, which is either a really good start or completely terrible depending on the way you look at it. I've been considering moving my vote from Maxwell to Geyde because of that link with Zone and probably will do that if Geyde shows signs of life. Dx

Actually uh... I know him. He's the host of the on-going game in I42.Also, I kinda played with him before that as well. (Though only once IIRC, and all impression is already lost.)

I'm relieved Dx

I am not. -_-

I mean sure, that's a byproduct of asking people questions. There's a difference between start conversation for the sake of conversation (suboptimal) and starting conversation with some sort of goal or reason (optimal).

Humu. Okay.

wait... did.. when... sure?

Yep. Last game here. Uh... FM#56?
*thinks*
Yep. FM#56.

Bonds are what keep us strong (maybe biased), also, I will point out that Zone is making me uneasy for thinking that bb just wanted to get more of a conversation going. Anything wrong with that? Oh wait, you don’t simply want to get a conversation going in mafia, there is always a motive.> that’s how mafia works

1. Hooray! I have already placed myself on the spot I belong to!
2. That's wrong! Only lame scum would let conversations die away. Good scum goes along with the crowd and talks with the crowd! ...which is why always never trust "good" players, who explain their reasoning in bulk, bulky posts.

 

[Celever]

Why should mirdo win this vote again @Zone Q11 ?

 

[Zone Q11]

Why should mirdo win this vote again @Zone Q11 ?

Because I don't know who he is.

 

[Celever]

Because I don't know who he is.

And why is that good reasoning to vote for him?

 

[Zone Q11]

And why is that good reasoning to vote for him?

Because then I can push whatever responsibility I was supposed to have towards him.
...again, this only counts if he is not an inactive. At worst, I might have to vote a random person by dice.

 

[Geyde]

Oookay this is weird. Our votes don't have the power to pressure the mafians. In fact, they could comfortably elect an innocent today, because the likelihood that an innocents picks mafians as HoH is low. That makes reading into votes difficult.

Anyway, I am going to ##VOTE: JCMaxwell

These game mechanics are interesting... Let's see what happens we statistically have an easy time to crown a town HoH, but let's see who wants the title of HoH first.
##vote: Vom
I hope you're not scum this time

Do you not want the title of HoH?

I swear if you both are scum I'm going to be so disappointed.

 

[Geyde]

You still need to treat this like a mafia game. I assume that our alliances are pretty much established: there is a predetermine mafian alliance that no innocent should every trust; you can't just make your own alliances because it's not every (wo)man for themself.


How do you know Zone?


Wait, how does that work...? xD

1. I'm getting an impression that they talk like this normally, not actually talking about specific IG posts and instead about higher level meta stuff or something. I just on't get why they are posting like this.
2. Question unimportant and unnecessary. Not even close to damning but pointing this out as NAI question.
3. No comment here.

 

[Geyde]

Because I don't know who he is.

Spicy