Finished Mafia LX: Bad Cop, Insane Cop

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Ephemera said:
I can see the benefits of trying to let cops live to D2, but with the mafia's information, they can easily masquerade as cops themselves, since they already know alignments.
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They don't know who the cop is.. As long as you keep the cop alive- the moment they die - you will have more confirmed results by reading back.
 
scattered mind said:
I explained why... in that same post with big capital letters. What did you miss? We have no time for a massclaim. Everyone just pop in say they are in favor of it but not actually do anything. We have less than 2 days and may i remind you we also need to decide who to vote for - Coordinated mass claim is not going to happen

Also - You are sus because you should know that mass claiming now will lead to the early death of the cop - Claiming vanilla is only going to help the mafia know who not to kill first. Cop cover is the way to go imo AND it was the way to go in the only game I found online of people playing it.
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We have time for a massclaim if we have time for Cop cover. We just don't need it to be synchronized. Synchronized is better but I believe massclaim is better regardless.

Mass claiming will lead to a N1 cop death, but the benefits are enormous. We get two clears and a pretty high accuracy parity cop check right now and get to solve with that knowledge. With two clears, each VT only needs to find one other VT to lock the game.
The upside of cop cover is that there's a chance a cop isn't killed tonight and we massclaim tomorrow. But that's dangerous to do in LYLO, and the benefits of cops surviving the night is small, since N2 checks are in fact useless as I've said before. A 100% clear in F3 is great, but this implies we get there. I don't want to go into LYLO tomorrow with three people claiming cops and having us get zero useless mech info the whole game.
 
NinjaPenguin said:
We have time for a massclaim if we have time for Cop cover. We just don't need it to be synchronized. Synchronized is better but I believe massclaim is better regardless.

Mass claiming will lead to a N1 cop death, but the benefits are enormous. We get two clears and a pretty high accuracy parity cop check right now and get to solve with that knowledge. With two clears, each VT only needs to find one other VT to lock the game.
The upside of cop cover is that there's a chance a cop isn't killed tonight and we massclaim tomorrow. But that's dangerous to do in LYLO, and the benefits of cops surviving the night is small, since N2 checks are in fact useless as I've said before. A 100% clear in F3 is great, but this implies we get there. I don't want to go into LYLO tomorrow with three people claiming cops and having us get zero useless mech info the whole game.
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I see. Welp. I still not sure about this but I'll go with whatever people decide eventually. I am starting to see your point being this is risky with LYLO. If taking into account the cop's death was done that would also lower the sus on you for me since it wasn't a slip but an actual strategy.
 
scattered mind said:
I'll say it again -WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO CLAIM ROLES AND NOT DOING COP COVER

If we all claim we narrow down the options for the Mafia. Can you respond to that instead of repeating your general agreement that mass claiming is hard to accomplish at once?
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While it's true that if we all claim our actual roles, we get a dead cop D2, there are benefits:

A) We get to begin analysis today. Who could be lying, who's not genuine, and most of all, our D1 lynch will be more streamlined. With cop cover, the more chaos and cover we make for cops, the less we may be able to use our lynch well today – by pointing out inconsistencies, we run the risk of outing fake cop claims rather than mafia.

B) We get real cop results. It's really easy for mafia to claim actual cop D2 if we begin with cop cover.

C) Interactions between players are more genuine. Not only does that help for a more productive D1, but it also gives us more to work with on D2.
 
scattered mind said:
They don't know who the cop is... Right? Lol
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Scattered, I don't think you get how this setup works.
Two people are cops. One always gets accurate results (unless framer), the other always gets the opposite result of the correct one (unless framer).
Even after a cop dies, we don't know their sanity. But what we do know is that one cop must always be getting right results and one always get wrong results.
This is useful to know because it functions as a parity cop: if one cop gets town on someone and the other cop gets scum on someone else, we know they share an alignment (or framer) since exactly one result is wrong. If they get the same result, we know the players have different alignments (or framer) since exactly one result is wrong.

If we make it to N2 with both cops alive, there will be four players alive, one being scum. Scum will simply kill one cop and frame the final VT, making it so the final cop has 100% useless results, since both of the other two players alive will check as the same alignment. That cop will be cleared, but their check won't have value.
Does that make sense?
 
Ephemera said:
While it's true that if we all claim our actual roles, we get a dead cop D2, there are benefits:

A) We get to begin analysis today. Who could be lying, who's not genuine, and most of all, our D1 lynch will be more streamlined. With cop cover, the more chaos and cover we make for cops, the less we may be able to use our lynch well today – by pointing out inconsistencies, we run the risk of outing fake cop claims rather than mafia.

B) We get real cop results. It's really easy for mafia to claim actual cop D2 if we begin with cop cover.

C) Interactions between players are more genuine. Not only does that help for a more productive D1, but it also gives us more to work with on D2.
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I get it.

So... claim?
 
NinjaPenguin said:
Scattered, I don't think you get how this setup works.
Two people are cops. One always gets accurate results (unless framer), the other always gets the opposite result of the correct one (unless framer).
Even after a cop dies, we don't know their sanity. But what we do know is that one cop must always be getting right results and one always get wrong results.
This is useful to know because it functions as a parity cop: if one cop gets town on someone and the other cop gets scum on someone else, we know they share an alignment (or framer) since exactly one result is wrong. If they get the same result, we know the players have different alignments (or framer) since exactly one result is wrong.

If we make it to N2 with both cops alive, there will be four players alive, one being scum. Scum will simply kill one cop and frame the final VT, making it so the final cop has 100% useless results, since both of the other two players alive will check as the same alignment. That cop will be cleared, but their check won't have value.
Does that make sense?
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Thnaks for clearing that up. I get it now.
 
NinjaPenguin said:
That's my belief. If you disagree with my logic, please explain, but I think the value of upfront claiming and a better D1 lynch is better than cop cover.
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Yes yes I agree. I'm asking since we are done with the idea of cop covering. I understood the game better and was wanting to keep the cop because I thought their flip tells us whether they were sane or not. But if that is not the case.. then I don't see this strategy as any better than mass claiming and I do like to play with more scumreading and interactions and it seems mass claiming would lead to that play.

So in short- I am all for mass claiming- Not coordinated- Just claim. That's why I said "so... claim?"
 
Are you all silent because you don't want to be the first one to claim or you have second thoughts about mass claiming?
 
I have limited time but, I just skimmed through the thread (I'll read fully through it later), and we should be massclaiming and asap. We only have like what, 2 days left? I highly doubt we're going to be able to synchronize anything. However there's four of us on right now (for the most part). If you wanted synchronicity this is probably the best we could get. Also, I believe Scattered had mentioned this before but I personally think it would be beneficial to have the VT's claim first before the cops. It would leave the scum in a tighter position if they wanted to claim cop, no? Or does that not make sense and my brain is just weird?
 
Jadethepokemontrainer said:
I have limited time but, I just skimmed through the thread (I'll read fully through it later), and we should be massclaiming and asap. We only have like what, 2 days left? I highly doubt we're going to be able to synchronize anything. However there's four of us on right now (for the most part). If you wanted synchronicity this is probably the best we could get. Also, I believe Scattered had mentioned this before but I personally think it would be beneficial to have the VT's claim first before the cops. It would leave the scum in a tighter position if they wanted to claim cop, no? Or does that not make sense and my brain is just weird?
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Yeah I think that would be good. I think NP agreed with you on this too earlier. So- All vanilla players : claim now. all cops: Wait till 3 people claimed vanilla and then claim?
 
scattered mind said:
Yeah I think that would be good. I think NP agreed with you on this too earlier. So- All vanilla players : claim now. all cops: Wait till 3 people claimed vanilla and then claim?
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IMO cops wait for 5 people to claim vanilla? Because that would just leave the two cops? Plus, if cops just waited for 3, then one or two of those first three could easily be the scum, no? Or am I misinterpreting the point of this?
 
Jadethepokemontrainer said:
IMO cops wait for 5 people to claim vanilla? Because that would just leave the two cops? Plus, if cops just waited for 3, then one or two of those first three could easily be the scum, no? Or am I misinterpreting the point of this?
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idk.. because the scum who wants to claim cop will just wait there. I think.
 
oh, are we claiming now? I guess that's a good idea.

I'm VT, had to wait two days doing nothing :p

About my read on Jade, what might have been there didn't seem to be too much. I'd put him at null, but more towards scum than NP.
Also, re: vanillas claiming before cops from scattered and Jade, there's alignments to be found there.
 
well, i guess ill start, then

Vanilla Townie
Welcome, The Last Shaymin.
You are a Vanilla Townie.

Abilities:
You have no abilities.

Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
 
We've got 3 VT, I think everyone else should just claim? If we get more VT claims, we know someone is lying, same for if we get more than 2 cop claims.
 
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